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I Believe You. No promotion

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by adam, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    The Congas....I love these on this song, wish their presence were more pronounced throughout.
    The album stipulates vocals arranged by Richard Carpenter, then, I Believe You arranged by Paul Riser.
    My understanding, then, is that Riser arranged all , save vocals.

    A bit of background shows Paul Riser a well known Motown arranger and trombonist:
    "Grammy Award-winning trombonist, composer and arranger Paul Riser lent his inimitable touch to
    many of Motown’s most essential recordings, including ‘I Heard It Though The Grapevine’ by Marvin Gaye
    and ‘Papa Was A Rollin’ Stone’ by The Temptations. One of the ‘Funk Brothers’,
    he was the uncredited trombonist on most of Motown’s hit records of the late ‘50s, ’60s and early ’70s.
    He has gone on to arrange for and work with diverse artists from Quincy Jones and The Carpenters to Patti LaBelle
    and arranged many of the songs on R.Kelly’s ‘Chocolate Facto

    Larrie Londin drums on this song, as also on two other MIA songs: When It's Gone and Touch Me When We're Dancing.
    Which explains why I enjoy the drums on those song, also. (Karen, also, drums on When It's Gone).

    I find the little details of these Carpenters' songs quite fascinating.
  2. adam

    adam Active Member Thread Starter

    Great vocals by Karen.Maybe should have charted higher than no 68
  3. I like this song very much, but it sounds to me like a great album track (ironic because it was kind of floating out there unmoored from any album for a couple years). It just doesn't "grab" you the way many of their other singles do, but I do appreciate it as the last really "classic" sounding single they put out in Karen's lifetime. I must admit that I've been reluctant to venture much beyond 1978 in their discography at the moment. Things get a little unsettling and less enjoyable for me after that.
    theninjarabbit likes this.
  4. BarryT60

    BarryT60 Well-Known Member

    I like the fill my body with your soul line... Hated freckled little girl and also the cave line. I imagine had Richard been in full fighting form, he'd have revised those lines... :wink: However, like many have said - it was new material - so I was ecstatic. Requested, requested, prayed a little and was crushed when it went nowhere.
    But the intro, the drum break, Karen's lead... very nice to these ears...
    As for the freckled little girl... argh - - such a commitment.... falling in love, getting married, having kids, college accounts.... spilled Cheereos on the carpet... It conjures way too much!
    Mary Beth and Jamesj75 like this.
  5. I like the "freckled little girl who looks like we do " line for some reason,i felt a very emotional reaction to it the first time i heard it also the "honey i love you "is very nice.
  6. So many threads to read for a relative newbie, so little time.

    First, a correction to this old post. Atlantic did release "One Of Us" by Abba as the third single from "The Visitors" in the states. I have the single and it peaked at #3 on my personal weekly Top 40 chart. I certainly wouldn't have been in favor of the Carpenters covering it as Abba already did a perfect job with it.

    As for "I Believe You", I enjoyed the song, but it belonged on an album and not a single. I thought it was a mistake to release a song that recently went Top 40 by another artist. If a ballad was to be released in 1978, it should have been "I Just Fall In Love Again" from Passage. So much better than the Anne Murray cover a year later that was a big hit for her. It could have been promoted as the next "Goodbye To Love" with the powerful electric guitar and the bombastic crescendo that was doing wonders for Barry Manilow at the time. I would have done a little creative editing to get the single down to 3:30 or less. Wouldn't it be great to own a time machine!
  7. Correct. It was released - I have the single too, but it did not chart on the main Top 40 Billboard chart in the US, so the song wasn't overly familiar to US audiences at that time.

  8. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    ThaFunkyFakeTation likes this.
  9. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    This was what -- five months after "Space Encounters"? It was going to be a very uphill climb to get airplay, no matter what they released or how much A&M pushed it. I like the song. It's one of those that's grown on me with time, especially the lead vocals and arrangement during the verses. Chorus arrangement still seems awkward to me for some reason.
  10. Rumbahbah

    Rumbahbah Well-Known Member

    It's not exactly eye-catching though is it? It looks like something created by someone doing work experience, and with no picture, I can imagine many readers flicking over the page without even registering what it said.

    It does raise an interesting point though - did many members of the public buy Billboard magazine? I always had the impression it was aimed more at those in the music industry. I suppose that would still have had an impact on radio programmers if they were buying it, but wouldn't do much to inform the public about a single's release, especially if it wasn't getting much airplay.
  11. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Still, I find it amusing that the Japan-issued 45 AMP 1014
    Side one I Believe You,
    flip to,
    Side Two B'wana She No Home !
    Very interesting !
  12. BarryT60

    BarryT60 Well-Known Member

    The trade publications were marketed to (among others) radio programmers; music insiders, and of course were / and are available to the public as well...
    In the day, local record store owners received them and the amount of hype could have prompted displays of the product, (mostly for albums)... The general "buzz" that is generated today by the internet and other forms of social media - clearly wasn't even around in the 70's... so Cash-box, Record World and Billboard were the kings of distributing the updates to music industry insiders.
    I liked the ads.

    Why I Believe You wasn't received well is intriguing... No album? K & R ill? TV shows that homogenized them even more than initially perceived? No TV appearances? I suggest all of the above. Interesting to note that there were numerous other records that were released at that time - from MOR acts that languished as well... Seeing that chart on an earlier thread was telling.

    Yet - to me, the industry had changed so much by 1978 - that I would have thought a much more grass roots effort should or could have been launched to get any record out there for Carpenters. There was an evolution taking place musically - and somewhere between their personal lives and the professional choices resulting from the Weintraub specials, it just wasn't happening.

    All that being said, given the time frame, I am so glad that year spawned THE definitive Christmas album for that generation and many more to come. Christmas Portrait stands the test of time and will remain one of the most beloved albums in the genre - forever.
    goodjeans likes this.
  13. I'm not following your amusement. Didn't the US issue the self-same single? Believe/B'wana?
  14. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    It did...a new single and a flip side song from there latest album then.

    WYBIMLA Active Member

    I never gave that much thought before, but after a while I felt something was off in the timing.
    Even just to sing along with Karen's lead is rightly described as a bit awkward. The backing vocals feel like they kinda trail behind which is unusual.
    I don't mean to be critical if that's what you even meant by chorus arrangement. Lol
    I know Karen likened the playback of this song to "Close to you" and they loved it, and I do enjoy parts of this song.
    "Honey I love you" is heartwarming to hear from Karen the way she delivers it. The harmonies are lush and warm; however, you still don't have that presence like on "Horizon" sonically if that makes sense. I can't answer to what it is about "freckled little girl". Lol I've never been a fan of it. I think it makes it less relatable somehow.
    Oh and how can I forget... I've always loved the moment you think it's over, but starts back up again with those big toms.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  16. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Oh, yes, Harry (and Rick), I realize the single was issued in USA also,
    same songs: I Believe You/B'wana She No Home.
    Country of origin was not the amusing part,
    only that this release of the languid
    I Believe You

    has such a great flip side,
    it's complete antithesis
    B'wana She No Home !
    (And--at that, not even a mention on the above-scan from Billboard.
    Perhaps, then, the radio programmers might have turned the 45-single over !
    And, again, I ponder---who was in charge of the marketing scheme for this single ?
  17. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    I wonder if any radio programmers did this...I'd have gotten such a buzz from hearing B'Wana on the radio!
  18. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    I think we're reacting to the same thing. No, I don't mean to be critical...a monkey with a foghorn could make better music than me...
    My thought is only that, if Rich were ever to take up some remixing again, maybe he could add a subtle instrumental touch that would help the ear follow the timing in the chorus. And I'd edit out the word "Just" in "Just ask me and I'll marry you..." Sounds like Karen's forcing it in, so that it comes across as "Jzt". No harm in removing it...the sudden "ASK ME!" would sound pleading, perfectly in keeping with the song's lyric.
    Toolman, shutting up and going away now. Carry on with your better insights. :)
    GaryAlan likes this.
  19. CraigGA

    CraigGA Well-Known Member

    I love the vocal arrangement and the haunting harmonies in the overdubs. In the orchestration, I enjoy both sections separated by the drum kit. I just feel overall, the orchestration is too sweet, wind chimey, if that is even a description. Do we know that Thank You For The Music was already cut and ready to go?
  20. The only remix "I Believe You" ever got was the excellent 2004 Surround Mix on the SACD.
  21. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    The 2002 cd Millenium Collection --in the Liner Notes where it gives Chart Positions and Charted Dates--
    mistakenly (typo?) dates I Believe You
  22. A&M Retro

    A&M Retro Well-Known Member

    Karen's vocal is one of her all-time best, but the song just doesn't have much of a 'hook'. And the arrangement was FAR too schmaltzy for 1978. I personally enjoy the SACD version very much. Still makes for a great album track.

    WYBIMLA Active Member

    Not bad ideas. I'd guess if there was anything really technically wrong with it Rich probably would have picked up on it certainly by the time of the SACD remix. It's funny how it sounds slightly off though.
  24. BarryT60

    BarryT60 Well-Known Member

    the only time I got any inclination that a radio programmer in my market wanted to play the flip side of a Carpenter record was Happy. I remember one of the DJs going on and on about how A&M may re-release Happy as an A-side, as OY was beginning to slip - - although to me it seemed highly unlikely at the time. Truth be told, I think he just really liked the song and wanted that to happen... but you never know what people hear - or heard at the time...
  25. ScottyB

    ScottyB Active Member

    According to the liner notes in the Made In America album, presuming the version on that album is the same as the single, all backing vocals are provided by Karen & Richard.

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