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I Believe You. No promotion

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by adam, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. Eyewire

    Eyewire Well-Known Member

    Awesome thanks! I have the SACD but no SACD player yet. I love how you can hear Karen much more during the "oooh-oooh's" in this version. For me, hearing more of Karen's voice is always a good thing.
     
    GaryAlan likes this.
  2. Imagine if you'd answered the phone to Ma Carpenter! :D

    I bet Agnes told him to make that call :wink:
     
  3. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I enjoyed the SACD mix, above, very much. Thanks, Harry !
    That was the good, now I'll throw in something to even out my good feeling....
    while Karen's vocal performance is fantastic---how could I feel otherwise---
    the arrangement is still wanting. As already pointed out elsewhere the timing in the
    chorus could utilize subtle alterations. The instrumentation remains too soft.
    As A 1978 single release , this should not have been. As an an album cut, it works fine.
    Clearly something is amiss.
    I am thrilled, though, that the song was revisited for the SACD Compilation.
    Great choice.
     
  4. Superstar

    Superstar Rainy Day and Monday Specialist

    Right? Everyone always says how nice she was, but I would have been scared to meet her. Also, from what little I know of Harold, I have no idea what else might have possessed him to make that call to KFI.
     
  5. JBee

    JBee Active Member

    This song has always seemed to be the one Carpenters single without an album of its own. It's an uncomfortable fit on MIA three years later. Even more than Postman is on Horizon. I don't know why they bothered to release it without an album (any album even if it was just Richard at the piano with Karen singing their classics). Perhaps someone who knows better can help me out. Was the only reason there was no 1979 album for their 10th Anniversary with A&M (which I know they were planning) just because Richard decided to take the entire year off?

    I'm sure if necessary they could have done a small promo push for a few weeks (Karen as we know did the solo album partly because she wanted to remain busy and A&M wanted Carpenter product) and they could have used Karen to do most of the publicity (just like went she on the Bruce Forsyth Show without RC). They could have also recorded music videos and TV appearances for Karen on Carson, other variety specials, The Muppets, HER OWN TV special (Richard has said the specials were mostly her thing anyway) instead of doing concert dates.

    And did they have enough tracks recorded for an album to go with "I Believe You"? I think so.

    Going by the information of what was recorded in 77-78 we have:
    1. I Believe You
    2. Look To Your Dreams
    3. Honolulu City Lights
    4. Slow Dance
    5. You're The One (recorded for Passage, but according to Richard, only didn't make it that album which already had "I Just Fall in Love Again")
    6. Thank You for The Music (presumably with the same arrangement they used on The Tonight Show in 78)
    7. When I Fall in Love (recorded for the 78 Space Encounters special, never used, appeared again in Music, Music, Music and in Lovelines)
    8. Little Girl Blue (also recorded for the 78 Space Encounters special)
    9. Where Do I Go From Here?
    10. Sailing on the Tide (written in 1975 for Horizon, but apparently recorded in 77 for Passage?)
    11. Dancing in the Street (was there a rumor they did a longer recording in 78?, in any case they did a short version for Space Encounters that Richard eventually put on As Time Goes By)
    12? Ordinary Fool (work lead recorded for HUSH, if Richard or A&M wanted to look for it they could, and Karen could have recorded a new master track)

    I'm sure I'm missing some more. But that alone seems enough to put out a 1979 album - with the one problem there doesn't seem to be a radio hit in the bunch. Certainly "I Believe You" wasn't going to be it.
     
  6. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    That's about right for what was recorded at the time but it's a pretty patchy collection stylistically. There isn't a hit single amongst those songs and most of them are pretty album tracks at best.

    Six of them appeared later on Lovelines and had it not been for Karen's songs peppered among them, it would have been a fairly sleepy album.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  7. JBee

    JBee Active Member

    I don't disagree. Like I said, there's not a radio top 40 hit in the bunch. But then I don't think MIA is any better (looking back I'm stunned Touch Me got into the top 20) in terms of nice album cuts vs Billboard hit cuts.

    I wonder if Herb could have another Close To You diamond in the rough somewhere, or they could have gotten Paul Williams to write a special song for Karen, or even Bacharach to do so. And it has to be said - if a song like "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" had been recorded/released in '79 it might have been a hit.

    But there would have been enough for a '79 album if A&M wanted it, and Karen COULD have done publicity for it since she wanted to remain active.
     
  8. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    I would assume that "Happy" was released as an A-side single somewhere, whether it was in Canada or the UK, as it did appear on the "Singles 1974-1978" album, just like "Jambalaya" and "Can't Smile Without You" were released as A-side singles in other countries.
     
    BarryT60 likes this.
  9. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member


    Well, "Honolulu City Lights" did get a single release over 10 years later, so there was one single in that bunch. But it would've been nice to have seen Karen's version of "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" released as a single, but more in the style of the remix. The original is great, but with the remix that Richard did in 91, I found he fixed the one part that was week in the original, and that was the drums. The extra reverb gives that song the extra punch it needed, and had it been mixed like that in the late-70's it could've been a very good dance club/disco single.
     
    goodjeans likes this.
  10. JBee

    JBee Active Member

    I was just listening to "Honolulu City Lights" the other day and it's a beautiful song. I really do think Karen was at a vocal peak in 1978 and Richard's arrangements make the song even better than the Beamer Brothers original. But its as much successful single material as "I Believe You" was (i.e. none). Richard himself has said there wasn't a "hit" to be found on Voice of the Heart or Lovelines and if it wasn't for the surprise success of "Touch Me" in MIA, you would have had to go back to their cover of a "A Kind of Hush" in 76 for their last top 20 hit. Looking at what was recorded in 77-78 there were no real hits there either. Nothing too catchy or toe-tapping. Richard was never going to pick a song like "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind", if anything the Carpenters kept getting softer and softer in terms of sound.

    Karen, on the other hand did pick the songs for her album and although there are some not so great ones overall, I can still name two or three off the top of my head that would have charted in the top 40 or even top 20 had they been released as singles in 79-80. I don't think it was lack of talent that made the Carpenters sink but song selection on Richard's part, with no huge improvements for Made In America. They needed songs with a hook and a beat that the radio would play.
     
  11. To be kind, I view "I Believe You" as an album cut, at best. To have released it as a single is incomprehensible. Choosing "Goofus" as a single was equally bizarre, but, in my opinion, it was easier to see why they chose to record it in the first place (semi-autobiographic, rhythmic, catchy, fun). Sorry, I have to agree; the lyrics ("I Believe You") are odd (and make some cringe) and the drum break (though dramatic) doesn't "lead" anywhere but back to a repeat of the equally odd chorus ("I'd live in a cave...", really?). And then, there it landed, on Made In America! One less new song on an LP (of only 10 songs) we waited nearly 3 years for! There had to be better songs for them to record during this period! Is it any wonder they weren't seeing chart action in the late 70's?!
     
  12. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Telling it is when we read this from the Fan Club Newsletter #64, April 1979:
    "Many members have expressed disappointment in being unable to obtain the last single,
    "I Believe You" and the B.L. Mitchell single which Richard produced last year. I am happy
    to advise you a limited supply of both singles is now available through the fan club to
    USA members only, $1.50 each...."
     
    jaredjohnfisher likes this.
  13. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    If I’m honest I think 90% of what they were recording between 1978 and 1982 was beautiful but forgettable elevator music. Why on earth they were stuck in the mire with songs like You’re Enough, At The End Of A Song, Make Believe It’s Your First Time, I Believe You and Look To Your Dreams is anybody’s guess but the lion’s share of the responsibility has to lie with Richard. I really do feel, when it comes to song selection from 1978 onwards, that he was recorded material that was far too old fashioned for the duo and was massively at odds with anything that similar acts were producing at the time. With the exception of Touch Me When We’re Dancing and (Want You) Back In My Life Again, none of the recordings during that period had any contemporary appeal.
     
    jaredjohnfisher and goodjeans like this.
  14. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    Makes you wonder how Karen’s solo would’ve faired had it been released in 80?
     
    goodjeans likes this.
  15. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    At least better than Made in America, perhaps even Passage.
     
  16. To further illustrate "the slope"; I recall hearing "I'd Really Love To See You Tonight" as a new song in 1976 (that became a #2 hit) and (even as a 16-year-old) thinking, "Why can't the Carpenters have a new song like this?" Something "up", "catchy", "grown up without being suggestive". "Only Yesterday" showed promise of the direction they could have continued in. It had some rhythm and colorings (guitar solo) that helped it fit it to the "mid-70s scene" (though the lyrics were still hung up on the earlier nostalgia trend). For the rest of the 70's (and 80s) their song choices (and therefore single choices) seemed only to reflect the personal blahs each were going through.
     
    Mark-T likes this.
  17. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

  18. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    I can't "like" this enough!
     
    jaredjohnfisher likes this.
  19. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I try not to read anything biographical into the music released by the duo.
    The only sure-fire evidence of such a reading would be I Need To Be In Love.

    What I do find interesting is that the BL Mitchell tune--a "RC Productions"--
    might have made an interesting Carpenters recording , and release, for 1978.
    That is, so long as "RC" could control himself and ditch the choirs/chorals !
     
  20. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Billboard Magazine
    12/23/1978 Easy Listening Chart (from #1 to #9):
    Compiled from Radio Air-Play lists.
    TIME PASSAGES.... Al Stewart,
    MY LIFE.... Billy Joel,
    00H BABY BABY.... Linda Ronstadt,
    TOO MUCH HEAVEN..... Bee Gees,
    OUR LOVE, DON'T THROW IT AWAY Andy Gibb,
    THE GAMBLER...Kenny Rodgers,
    CAN YOU FOOL.... Glen Campbell,
    YOU DONT BRING ME FLOWERS ...Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond,
    I BELIEVE YOU.....Carpenters.


    What is of some interest is that Carpenters are at #9 here (after six weeks).
     
    Jamesj75 likes this.
  21. Jamesj75

    Jamesj75 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for providing this list, GaryAlan! Not bad company for "I Believe You." I did hear that single on the radio several times upon its release.
     
  22. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    I heard it exactly once.
     
  23. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    Heard it many times on Adult Contemporary radio. It was often cut at the pause before the drum break, which I remember pissing me off to no end. Though not a huge fan of the song at the time, it's probably the one that's grown on me most through the years. Not going to argue that it was a good choice of single in 1978, but it is IMO a strong vocal and atypically subtle, soulful arrangement for them at the time. Despite being several years old when included on MIA, I'd still call it by far one of the three best tracks on that album.
     
  24. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    I like "I Believe You' but after 4 years without a regular pop album, I wish they had put something else new on it in its place.
     
  25. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    From the MIA outtakes that have surfaced since 1983, I don’t think there was anything good enough to replace it.
     

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