"I Need to Be in Love" - a mistake as the second single from AKOH?

[JBee]

The "Goofus" vs "Beechwood" (which is the worst single) thread got me thinking. I think we can all (mostly) agree that releasing "Goofus" as the 3rd single from the AKOH LP was a mistake (though they might have thought a novelty record might have been a break-through hit), but listening to that album again in its entirety I've also been wondering if another song had been picked aside from "I Need to Be in Love" as the 2nd song would it have done better than #25. I think INTBIL was the start of the decline (though one would argue that the prime single, "A Kind of Hush", never hitting the top 10 was a better clue).

I have also heard it said here that one of the problems with the song was that it was not a "radio" song and that the unneeded OK chorale kills it, making it the MORest of MOR. I don't disagree. INTBIL is one of my favorite Carpenter songs - it has some of the most memorable ever lyrics from John Bettis, and one of Karen's most heartfelt performances, but it does sound over-produced by RC. Just keeping the song bare-bones might have turned it into an acknowledged torch song classic. But I'm not sure its a great single (especially being released in May on the cusp on Summer, since, just like the also disappointing chart-wise "Solitaire", there's nothing "spring/summery" about it).

Yet...listening to the entire AKOH album again, I'm not sure if there's another song on the album that would have done better than #25 on the charts (even the excellent "You" is a bit slow). The only one I can think of is "I Can't Smile Without You" which was a huge hit for Manilow just a few years later. So perhaps, that could have been the one (although all in all, I think the overall album itself is flawed and lacking, particularly with the decision to name the album and bet the farm on a humdrum remake of a song that is not better than the Herman Hermit's original), but I'm interested in anyone else thinks it might have been a mistake for INTBIL to be the second single (if it had been the third we would be spared the "Goofus" headscratcher) and that another song on the album might have done better on the charts?

 

[Murphy]

Totally agree. Although I feel "Solitaire" was the start of their chart decline. I've always wished that they released"Can't Smile Without You" as the follow-up to "Only Yesterday", then released the Passage album, skipping A Kind Of Hush entirely.

 

[Rumbahbah]

I'd agree that 'Solitaire' marked the start of a series of decidedly iffy single choices. However, the problem with choosing singles from A Kind of Hush is that there weren't many good options on the album - they certainly didn't pick the best ones in my opinion, but I don't hear a smash hit on there anywhere. This is quite a step down from Horizon, where it's been suggested that several of the album tracks were good enough to have been chosen as singles.

 

[newvillefan]

Totally agree. Although I feel "Solitaire" was the start of their chart decline. I've always wished that they released"Can't Smile Without You" as the follow-up to "Only Yesterday", then released the Passage album, skipping A Kind Of Hush entirely.

That's what I would have done too. Hush didn't have a hit single on it, the material is weak pretty much from start to finish. I remember one newspaper review of the album with a headline which I think summed it up perfectly: "Cool Carpenters only coasting"

 

[JBee]

Totally agree. Although I feel "Solitaire" was the start of their chart decline. I've always wished that they released"Can't Smile Without You" as the follow-up to "Only Yesterday", then released the Passage album, skipping A Kind Of Hush entirely.

I've said before that things might have been very different had the C's taken 1976 off (especially after Karen's collapse in late '75) to refuel their batteries and get mentally/physically better. Things that happened later might have been avoided. And the only thing we would have missed would have been the AKOH LP, which I think would be no big loss since the best songs on it could have gone to the under-tracked Passage (and replaced stuff like "Man Smart, Women Smarter").

Everyone is right that AKOH was largely hitless (chart/radio wise), on par with the eclectic songs they recorded in 1978 - pretty songs but no "Only Yesterdays" - although considering how huge a hit "Can't Smile Without You" was for Manilow, I think the Carpenters version could have been top 10 at least with it as well.

But in 1976, at the very least, there was still enough juice in the Carpenters brand and fan following to bring a very average "A Kind of Hush" cover to #12. So the combination of song choices on the album (mediocre compared to almost everything that went before) and head-scratching choices for single releases on AKOH was the true end (in addition to Richard's over reliance on slow ballads by this time) of their run. I just think there had to been better choices made, even replacing INTBIL with another choice for the second single off the album.

 

[Jamesj75]

I'm wide awake at 1 AM, and are there friends in sight? I thought I would join this discussion...

Frankly, I disagree with the premise that "I Need to Be in Love" was a mistake for single release, second from A Kind of Hush or otherwise. I understand the points made about the OK Chorale and overproduction. Despite all that, this song is undeniably a pretty ballad. And let's remember: This song was Karen's favorite of all they recorded. Perhaps tweaking the song would have made it more palatable to the naysayers, but I feel it stands up on its own merit as a decent single. When you have Karen emoting with her beautiful voice, you have a great foundation.

I realize that fans can (and do) disagree, yet I have grown tired of the dismissive and cavalier attitude about the single "There's a Kind of Hush" and the album A Kind of Hush as being awful, or a downward turning point, or a vital career mistake. And so, once again, here I am defending both, even though it would appear, at this website, I am in the minority. I won't belabor my own talking points in defense, but these negative viewpoints of the 1976 output are not gospel. There are many of us fans who loved these songs: upon release and continuing decades later. Oh, and count me in as a staunch defender of "Solitaire," possibly Karen's best performance. (I guess I'll be defending that one as long as I live.)

When you basically start your career with "(They Long to Be) Close to You" and "We've Only Just Begun," back to back, how is it even possible to go higher?!?! It's difficult for recording artists to achieve longevity or a sustenance of hit singles. Despite any perceived miscues via Monday morning quarterbacking and despite not attaining gold status or #1 charting performance on every release, our C's performed quite well in that regard!

 

[GaryAlan]

And, as Richard Carpenter has noted ( Liner Notes),
I Need To Be In Love did ultimately score as a huge hit single--albeit, 1996, Japan !

I--as detailed elsewhere, previously--tried to get radio airplay on this song (by phoning in my request),
and, the DJ simply refused to play it ! This, from an "easy listening" formatted-station !
(And, I really loved the song at that time !)

Thus, it is my opinion--and, has been since 1976--that the so-called "career downturn" has less
to do with this song--and more to do with many other influences/factors at that time.

From Album A Kind of Hush,
I would single out One More Time as an awesome song.
You and I have You are both excellent songs.
And, I'll be defending (alone, I suppose) the song There's A Kind of Hush !

It doesn't help that Richard Carpenter consistently downplays this Album.

 

[tomswift2002]

Speaking of Japan, I think the Japanese also got "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do", which could've been released in the US as Neil Sedaka had just scored his second number one with the song in either 75 or 76. So it might've cracked the Top 10 in the US.

 

[GaryAlan]

Also, pontificating on this song, I am not crazy about the OK Chorale ---be that as it may,
the Chorale is no where to be found on Solitaire--IMHO a great song peaking at merely #17,
thus, probably, I Need To Be In Love peaked as high as it was going to peak in 1976--
regardless of whether the Chorale was part of the arrangement, or not.
My two cents is that when Only Yesterday only made it to #4, the "writing was on the wall"
regards to a career trend downwards on the Charts.
And, Album Horizon only making it to #13 in the USA is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[newvillefan]

And, Album Horizon only making it to #13 in the USA is a hard pill to swallow.

That's one I could never figure out. Interesting to note that it went to #1 in the UK and Japan, where audiences have not been as fickle towards them over the years as the US audience has been.

I know of many US artists, including Dionne Warwick, Dusty Springfield and Neil Sedaka, who have said the UK was always steadfast towards them, particularly in their "wilderness" years, whereas they were all but shunned by the US record buying public.

 

[GaryAlan]

Regarding the "other factors," at play in the USA,
the August 2nd, 1976 People Magazine article really did them no favors.
Excerpts:
"But it is their curse to be grooved in a middle-of-the-road musical bag and life-style at odds
with much of their own generation. "
".....And, unfortunately, dirty is in these days...."
"Then when they got back into business, the Carpenters fell into another hassle and
their first bad press (except from the rock critics) ever..."

Source:
Brother & Sister Act : People.com »

 

[newvillefan]

Regarding the "other factors," at play in the USA,
the August 2nd, 1976 People Magazine article really did them no favors.

Good point. I should clarify my earlier post and say that it wasn't just disaffection of the record buying public, but also the media and celebrities such as Bette Midler that turned on them during the latter half of the 70s, which further compounded their steady decline in chart popularity, which in turn was a by-product of Richard's own inability to stay on top of his game when it came to song selection.

 

[JBee]

Good point. I should clarify my earlier post and say that it wasn't just disaffection of the record buying public, but also the media and celebrities such as Bette Midler that turned on them during the latter half of the 70s, which further compounded their steady decline in chart popularity, which in turn was a by-product of Richard's own inability to stay on top of his game when it came to song selection.

But hadn't the media and other celebrities and the music critics had the Carpenters in their crosshairs from the beginning? The whole point of the Rolling Stone article in 1974 seemed to me the writer, Tom Nolan, imploring the rock/edgy RS-readers to take the Carpenters seriously. And they did seem to be gaining some credibility with Horizon, before the Sedaka incident and the Weintrab-era of management turned them into a nearly full-time Vegas act just singing their past hits.

I too like most of the songs on AKOH (though I find the titular cut, not bad, just dull, and "Goofus" and "Breaking Up is Hard to Do" not up to their usual par), but when compared to Horizon or their output from 1970-73, there is a big drop off in song choices (particularly in over reliance on ballads/slower songs). That doesn't mean I think any of them are particularly radio "hits" or charting singles. Voice of the Heart, which pretty much consists of mostly songs Richard thinks of as outtakes not good enough to be on other albums, is one of my favorite Carpenter albums. It has several songs on it I love. Yet, I'm not sure if any of them are chart-toppers either.

As I said at the beginning, INTBIL, is one of my favorite Carpenter songs. There are some unforgettable lyrics in it and it was clearly meant for Karen's voice (I don't know if another singer could do it justice). Yet, when you add in the overproduction (less would have been more with the song) and the changing tastes of the public (especially in Spring/Summer season in a celebratory bicentennial year.) I'm not sure if it was the best choice for their second single (but then again, I also acknowledge that perhaps none of the other songs - with the possible exception of "I Can't Smile Without You" - on the LP would have done better than INTBIL).

 

[Glenpwood]

"I Need To Be In Love" was/is a fine song and had it been released first instead of A Kind Of Hush I think it might have scraped the pop top 10. I think Hush took away some of their good will with pop radio by being just an average lesser rehash of the Postman formula. Its also worth noting that by the Summer of 76 a lot of the softer pop artists that had once dominated Top 40 playlists were suddenly struggling. If you line up John Denver, Olivia Newton John, Helen Reddy, Neil Sedaka, etc. singles discography chart peaks you can see them all start to struggle in the same window to keep scraping the middle of the chart. Only Barry Manilow & the Captain & Tennille who were really the tail end acts of the soft A/C trend kept scoring moderately consistent Top tens for the rest of the decade.

Also, I will never understand why Richard delayed releasing the album until the second single. I would've thought he and the label would have learned their lesson when "Horizon" barely went Platinum after being released off the third single - throwing away the easy sales the two million selling prior 45's would've garnered the LP. Having it out the same time as the title track might have improved its ultimate sales somewhat.

 

[BarryT60]

I think I have mentioned in other threads that YOU would have been my single choice for this LP. I understand that INTBIL was a personal anthem as it were - so I have no qualms with that choice, but You as the follow-up could have been far superior as a third single IMHO... It's magical, and dance-able, and speaks a very simple language of love that would have resonated in any climate.
I agree with Glen above that the timing of the album's release could have possibly helped... Certainly with Horizon, since there had been a number 1 song - - 5 - 6 months earlier.
And while I was one of those fans writing in for Solitaire to be released, I wouldn't have minded a fourth single with Desperado. The Eagles tune, performed so sublimely, may have garnered a few more stations jumping on the record. All they ever needed was air-play - and the sales followed.

 

[newvillefan]

I would've thought he and the label would have learned their lesson when "Horizon" barely went Platinum

I think "barely went platinum" is rather understating its achievement as a new album in 1975

I will never understand why Richard delayed releasing the album until the second single. Having it out the same time as the title track might have improved its ultimate sales somewhat.

Releasing two singles first worked for ABBA, who released The Winner Takes It All (July 1980) and then Super Trouper (November 1980) as the second single just before the album came out. It still went multi-platinum and was the biggest selling album of 1980 in the UK.

I think the moral of the story is an album's sales are reflected in how good the album is. Super Trouper was amazing, Hush was weak and insipid.

 

[JBee]

I think I have mentioned in other threads that YOU would have been my single choice for this LP. I understand that INTBIL was a personal anthem as it were - so I have no qualms with that choice, but You as the follow-up could have been far superior as a third single IMHO... It's magical, and dance-able, and speaks a very simple language of love that would have resonated in any climate.
I agree with Glen above that the timing of the album's release could have possibly helped... Certainly with Horizon, since there had been a number 1 song - - 5 - 6 months earlier.
And while I was one of those fans writing in for Solitaire to be released, I wouldn't have minded a fourth single with Desperado. The Eagles tune, performed so sublimely, may have garnered a few more stations jumping on the record. All they ever needed was air-play - and the sales followed.

I agree "You" is a fantastic song (maybe the strongest OVERALL song on the album). Would it have done better than INTBIL #25 placement if it had been released third? Who knows. It wouldn't have done worse than "Goofus". Perhaps they were going for a novelty hit, but the thinking on single releases/song choices is just puzzling during this period. RC is no great help in figuring it out since he seems to now regard almost everything during this period as a regret in retrospect. Yet, at the time, they both seemed OK with the decisions. Karen even expressed regret that "Goofus" didn't do better. Really? Did she really expect a song called "Goofus" to do better?

 

[Glenpwood]

Karen even expressed regret that "Goofus" didn't do better. Really? Did she really expect a song called "Goofus" to do better?

"Goofus" was about three years too late as a single. If it had been out in 73-74 when the Tony Orlando & Dawn Ragtime stuff was hitting it might have worked but even then it probably wouldn't have been a million seller or top ten pop.

The songs picked for AKOH by Richard seem to me like an overreaction to his saying "Horizon" was too draggy. Most everything was mid tempo and lyrically light. "Ordinary Fool" passed over for Goofus? The album could have used one or two more songs like Fool to break up the sunny but inconsequential lyrical vibe of most of the material save INTBIL or One More Time.

 

[Chris Mills]

Amazed that Hush was described as weak and insipid. Karen's vocal range is effortlessly sublime, and the harmonies are perfectly blended. Better description would be mellow and soothing.

 

[Mark-T]

I agree, Chris. I find Side Two to be especially good.

 

[newvillefan]

Amazed that Hush was described as weak and insipid. Karen's vocal range is effortlessly sublime, and the harmonies are perfectly blended. Better description would be mellow and soothing.

I was referring to the material, not Karen's vocals . I'm not arguing that the harmonies weren't intact, more that I "hear" what Herb did when he questioned if they were happy with how the finished product sounded. It's miles away from A Song For You.

 

[GaryAlan]

I suppose it may boil down to context. I recall very well 1976, and my first listen to the Album.
The criticisms which are leveled at the album, now, were no where to be found (in my mind) at that time.
I do not much care for Sandy--never have--but, the background harmonies are excellent.
It was always my assumption that the Album's primary weakness was due to Karen's declining health--to say that
she was ill at the time is an understatement. To say that her illness never affected her voice is simply delusional.
I Need To Be In Love is probably the reason that The Singles 1974-1978 LP did so well in Britain--as Karen's
1978 performance of the song was quite simply the most affecting reading (live) that she ever gave (IMHO) !
Let's not forget that the Hush single actually sounds a bit brighter than the LP version. (Play them side by side).
Actually, though, when I listen to the LP, these songs stand out:
I Need To Be In Love, There's A Kind of Hush, You, I Have You, One More Time, Boat To Sail, Goofus (!).
The above --seven song--list makes for an interesting potpourri of music !
Can't Smile Without You is almost there.
Breaking Up and Sandy are alright.
(My two cents)


Let us recall, too, that the 1977 Passage Liner Notes refers to the Album as "superb" (Tom Nolan).

I do believe Richard over-produced the album; as I have mentioned previously,
boil it down to the Lead vocals and the harmonies (i.e., drop everything else) and these songs sound quite good.

In fact, the Master Karaoke CD version
of
I Need To Be In Love
does just that.

 

[newvillefan]

Let us recall, too, that the 1977 Passage Liner Notes refers to the Album as "superb" (Tom Nolan).

He was probably paid quite handsomely to write those liner notes

 

[GaryAlan]

I must say that the Insights And Sounds Blog has the best review of the Hush album I have ever encountered.
Of everything said there, I particularly agree that Karen's vocals are the "thing' that makes this album a delight.
Of course, I might clarify that the Master Karaoke of I Need To Be In Love--while still lacking the lead--has all
of the elements of a great Carpenters' ballad.

Now, I'm torn between One More Time and I Need To Be In Love--would the former have done any better on the Charts ?
Would the slow-burn, jazzy- version of Breaking Up Is Hard To Do have been an even better recording opportunity ?
When one considers that possibility coupled with Ordinary Fool, the reception of the Album might have fared better in the public forum.
And, if Herb Alpert had heard Ordinary Fool--at that time--would he not have urged its placement on the Album ?

Would any of the above changes really mattered in mid-1976 ?
My gut-feeling is that it would not have mattered regarding sales or charting position.

 

[Mark-T]

Thank you, GaryAlan, for the generous compliment on my review of the album.