Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
I read here at the Forum that "The Lonely Bull" (stereo) master recording was lost or destroyed, does anyone know the story behind that? How could that happen?
Lost "Bull"
- Thread starter Steven J. Gross
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Other than what was written in the Definitive Hits liner notes, I don't know that anyone here has details about it. We know that the stereo "master" for "The Lonely Bull" was really just a two-track recording with the main mono track assigned to the right channel and Herb's new solo trumpet recording playing along with it assigned to the left.
The earliest stereo versions of it had the spread rather drastic. Herb's new track was ONLY in the left channel, and the mono track was ONLY in the right channel. The Lonely Bull album and CD was this way, as was the Greatest Hits version.
Sometime around the mid-'80s, when Classics Vol.1 was being prepared, a newer more 'combined' mix was made. This allowed a bit of overlap between the recordings on the left and right channels, making the song a bit more 'comfortable' to those wearing headphones to listen. All subsequent releases, both domestic and foreign used this mix on compilations.
The when Definitive Hits came out, we heard about a lost multi-track tape. There are two possibilities here. Either they're talking about the 'duophonic' version described above, or, like the Beatles "She Loves You", there actually was a multi-tracked master tape that was mixed down for the initial mono single. Once an album was needed, they couldn't locate the tape even then, and instead used the mono mix in the right channel and had Herb record a new part for the left channel.
Apparently it was common practice to not hang onto these original multi-track masters once a mix-down master was made, hence the loss of some great original recordings. So it's entirely possible that the 'loss', described in Definitive Hits, happened way back in 1962! Maybe Sharon threw it out when she was cleaning the garage one day!
Harry
...with speculation, online...
The earliest stereo versions of it had the spread rather drastic. Herb's new track was ONLY in the left channel, and the mono track was ONLY in the right channel. The Lonely Bull album and CD was this way, as was the Greatest Hits version.
Sometime around the mid-'80s, when Classics Vol.1 was being prepared, a newer more 'combined' mix was made. This allowed a bit of overlap between the recordings on the left and right channels, making the song a bit more 'comfortable' to those wearing headphones to listen. All subsequent releases, both domestic and foreign used this mix on compilations.
The when Definitive Hits came out, we heard about a lost multi-track tape. There are two possibilities here. Either they're talking about the 'duophonic' version described above, or, like the Beatles "She Loves You", there actually was a multi-tracked master tape that was mixed down for the initial mono single. Once an album was needed, they couldn't locate the tape even then, and instead used the mono mix in the right channel and had Herb record a new part for the left channel.
Apparently it was common practice to not hang onto these original multi-track masters once a mix-down master was made, hence the loss of some great original recordings. So it's entirely possible that the 'loss', described in Definitive Hits, happened way back in 1962! Maybe Sharon threw it out when she was cleaning the garage one day!
Harry
...with speculation, online...
Most record companies hung onto the original multitrack masters, once it became more commonplace. But I just know from what I've heard of some A&M reissues (especially recent ones), it's possible some of them were not handled with care, and it could very well be that the original tapes aren't even in existence anymore. Look at how bad "Tijuana Taxi" sounded, or "Night and Day" on B66's Equinox. (That bad tape stock didn't happen, apparently, until the early 70's.) Being a smaller label, they probably didn't have the type of vault needed to properly store the tapes until they'd taken over the Chaplin lot and actually built a room for that purpose.
There's a lot of controversy over a recent MCA release--The Who's The Who Sing My Generation was remastered from original "multitrack" (which was probably 3-track) and made into stereo. The sound is extremely clean and detailed. However, when they mixed these songs down to mono, there were some parts that were overdubbed during the mixdown of these tracks...so there are actually some instrumental or vocal parts missing! I don't have the original CD, but I do have selected tracks on Meaty, Beaty, Big & Bouncy, a Who early-days compilation. And the new tracks sound...sterile. Like something is missing. This set is already two CDs--most fans aren't happy with it and wish they'd have included the original mono tracks, remastered (which still has never happened).
The biggest problem with issuing recordings from a multitrack master--who's going to mix it? The mix would need to be as close to the original as possible. Led Zeppelin's a good example--to get the best sound, they had Jimmy Page help recreate the original mixes from multitrack. The sound came out about as good as they could get, but the mixes were a little heavier on guitar than they were originally. (I couldn't hear the difference, but anyone who's owned a Led Zep LP and played it to death seems to notice it more.)
Like anything, it's a judgement call. If the original two-track mixdown is sound, it'll be used. If it's damaged, they'll look for a backup copy that sounds as good, or almost as good. If everything is bad, but the multitracks are clean, the last option is to make a new mix.
There's a lot of controversy over a recent MCA release--The Who's The Who Sing My Generation was remastered from original "multitrack" (which was probably 3-track) and made into stereo. The sound is extremely clean and detailed. However, when they mixed these songs down to mono, there were some parts that were overdubbed during the mixdown of these tracks...so there are actually some instrumental or vocal parts missing! I don't have the original CD, but I do have selected tracks on Meaty, Beaty, Big & Bouncy, a Who early-days compilation. And the new tracks sound...sterile. Like something is missing. This set is already two CDs--most fans aren't happy with it and wish they'd have included the original mono tracks, remastered (which still has never happened).
The biggest problem with issuing recordings from a multitrack master--who's going to mix it? The mix would need to be as close to the original as possible. Led Zeppelin's a good example--to get the best sound, they had Jimmy Page help recreate the original mixes from multitrack. The sound came out about as good as they could get, but the mixes were a little heavier on guitar than they were originally. (I couldn't hear the difference, but anyone who's owned a Led Zep LP and played it to death seems to notice it more.)
Like anything, it's a judgement call. If the original two-track mixdown is sound, it'll be used. If it's damaged, they'll look for a backup copy that sounds as good, or almost as good. If everything is bad, but the multitracks are clean, the last option is to make a new mix.
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
-Maybe Sharon threw it out when she was cleaning the garage one day!
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