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LOST TREASURES - session guesses

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whippedflea

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UP CHERRY STREET / I CAN’T GO ON LIVING, BABY, WITHOUT YOU / PROMISES, PROMISES / I MIGHT FRIGHTEN HER AWAY / ALONE AGAIN NATURALLY – These were all previously released on Herb’s YOU SMILE-THE SONG BEGINS album with the Phase 2 TJB. These were all recorded in late 1973 and these new remixes are only slightly different.

LAZY DAY – How Herb recorded Nick Ceroli and Pat Senatore changed after the BEAT OF THE BRASS album. So I’d put this somewhere in the sessions for WARM or THE BRASS ARE COMIN’.

THE WAILING OF THE WILLOW – Harry Nilsson’s version of this was released in 1968, so my guess is this was left off of THE BEAT OF THE BRASS.

FIRE AND RAIN – I think this actually came out in late 1973 as the flipside of “Last Tango In Paris.”

AND I LOVE HER – With the prominent Fender electric 12-string from Pisano, my best guess is that this is from the SRO or SOUNDS LIKE sessions.

CLOSE TO YOU – The liner notes state that this was probably bound for WARM.

HAPPY HOUR – From the sounds of the band, this is from the SRO or SOUNDS LIKE sessions.

JULIUS AND ME – Sounds like it’s from THE BRASS ARE COMIN’ due to the drum sound.

TENNESSEE WALTZ – Again, this has to be after 1968. But listen close and whoever is playing drums is using a bigger drum set than Nick Ceroli. My guess is that this is from the sessions for SUMMERTIME and Hal Blaine is playing his usual big drum set that he kept tuned very low. This is not Ceroli’s drum sound, unless this is from the first reunion sessions (late 1973).

TRADEWINDS – This sounds like a leftover from CONEY ISLAND.

RAINDROPS KEEP FALLIN’ ON MY HEAD – This sounds like it could be a SUMMERTIME leftover.

FLOWERS ON THE WALL - The Statler’s version was from 1965 and this version has the prominent trombone and some mandolin, just like many of the songs from the WHAT NOW MY LOVE album.

POPCORN – This one’s probably from CONEY ISLAND or the sessions just after that gave us the WHISTLESTAR single.

CHRIS – This could possibly from WARM, THE BRASS ARE COMIN’ or maybe SUMMERTIME.

KILLING ME SOFTLY – Could be anywhere from 1969 to 1974. I just can’t tell.

I’LL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN – This is like the previous two. We’ve got the conga player again on this track. However, the strings on this sound like the strings on THE BRASS ARE COMIN’, so that’s my best guess.

SPEAKEASY – The peppy beat sounds like many songs from the BEAT OF THE BRASS album.

WHISTLESTAR – This actually came out in late 1975, after CONEY ISLAND, but before JUST YOU AND ME. Apparently, a TJB follow up to CONEY ISLAND was planned, but the TJB reunion just wasn’t working out and Herb went on to his new solo career
 

Harry

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whippedflea said:
KILLING ME SOFTLY – Could be anywhere from 1969 to 1974. I just can’t tell.

Likely 1973 or 1974, but possibly as early as 1971 or so.

Everyone knows that Roberta Flack had the big pop hit with "Killing Me Softly With His Song", but the fact is that the song was actually released a couple of years earlier by a singer named Lori Lieberman. It seems that Fox and Gimbel were affected by Lori's story of seeing Don McLean sing "American Pie" and adapted their song which had been called "Killing Me Softly With His Blues." Lori Lieberman's version never went anywhere.

Roberta Flack heard the song in-flight and ultimately recorded it herself.

http://www.superseventies.com/1973_9singles.html

Harry
 

Dave

Well-Known Member
Good story on how Roberta Flack recorded "Killing Me Softly"; I'll never forget the LONG LEGNTH OF TIME my mother spent in the clothing store as it was playing while I hid under clothing racks, amidst her snapping at me to "...Get Out From Under There!!!" :mad: ...That's how I remember first hearing it! :laugh:

Vikki Carr did a remake of it almost like Roberta's, I think the following year; I have it on her LP, Ms. America, packaged with One Helluva Woman on Collectibles CD... And an obscure singer, Clint Holmes (known for the playful hit, "Playground In My Mind") covered it on an LP of his around this time, too! And even Bobby Goldsboro recorded it on Summer (The First Time), though it could never have over-shadowed the title-track...

I remember seeing and playing the Lori Lieberman LP with that song, as well as others Norman Gimbel & Charles Fox had written, such as "...And The Feeling's Good"--which Roberta also did and José Feliciano, too!--and "I've Got A Name"--though its best-known hit-version, was posthumosly-released by Jim Croce after his death in a plane crash...

Back to Herb, maybe "Killing Me..." was destined for release as a single? Or would we have seen it on You Smile, The Song Begins or Just Me And You...??

Wonder what the reformed-TjB would have thought of it, too... Maybe THAT was a possible destiny...


Dave

...curious about a VERY Curious Track, online...
 

carlito

Well-Known Member
Regarding Flowers On The Wall, and I hope we can get Captain Bacardi to weigh in on this, but the trombone(s) sound like synthesizers, and possibly may have been added on with the trumpets. The recording is in mono with the exception of the trombones which are panned to the right. Listen to them during the breaks; something about them does not sound right.

Wailing Of The Wind has a sentiment similar to the Warm album, with the languid samba-cancão thing going on. Let's hope this is the case, because the sound quality is superb!

On I'll Never Fall In Love Again, it sounds from the tape hiss as if it has not had anything added to it, as the other songs with added on parts were first cleaned up. Assuming that Lani Hall is singing on it, this might be Lani and Herb's first collaboration performing an apropos song together. If someone knows when they first became involved emotionally, it might be easy to affix a recording date.

Can any of the connected dudes here get Randy Alpert to shoot over a list with dates?

carlito
 

Mr Bill

Gentlemanly Curmudgeon
Staff member
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Carlito Zway said:
Regarding Flowers On The Wall, and I hope we can get Captain Bacardi to weigh in on this, but the trombone(s) sound like synthesizers, and possibly may have been added on with the trumpets. The recording is in mono with the exception of the trombones which are panned to the right. Listen to them during the breaks; something about them does not sound right.

I do hear what you're talking about -- almost like the "trombone" part on "Bullish" (which was played by Bob Edmondson in concert but was a synth by John Barnes on the LP)... You could be wrong but I hear what you're talking about...

--Mr Bill
 

carlito

Well-Known Member
Still unaccounted for is the fact that every instrument on the recording is dead center, with the exception of the bone which is panned right, and some slight trumpet reverb ambience to the left and right. Meaning that the trombone was not part of the original recording. Check it out.

carlito
 

Captain Bacardi

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Well, it's definitely two trombones. It's possible that they were newly recorded. "Up Cherry Street" also sounds like a new trombone part as well, very similar to the South Of The Border 'bone part of the same song. Too bad there's not more informative liner notes on this CD.


Capt. Bacardi
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
The trombone parts are probably bass trombones...definitely done in 5ths, with a "bite", similar to the sound on DON'T GO BREAKING MY HEART and I WILL WAIT FOR YOU from SRO. I don't think that's a synth playing the 'bone riffs.



Dan
 

Mike Blakesley

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A reader wrote to ICE about the lack of session information in LOST TREASURES and got this answer from Shout!Factory project manager Shawn Amos:

"Herb did tons of sessions throughout the 60s and 70s. Unlike the Beatles or Stones, who went in specifically to record RUBBER SOUL or STICKY FINGERS, he was always in the studio, and he'd determine later what recordings ended up making it onto which album. While the Brass tapes have been fastidiously archived, notes on sessions were not nearlly as meticulous. Much of the session data just doesn't exist. The tracks that make up LOST TREASURES were a discovery to Herb, as much as they were to anyone else. Many tape boxes were unmarked. In some cases the boxes had the song title and nothing more written on them."

So there ya go. I suppose Herb himself probably doesn't remember EXACTLY what was recorded when and with whom, and would prefer not to guess. Can't blame him.
 

TonyCurrie

Active Member
Industry Member
I'd certainly go along with this 100%. I have three racksful of 10" spools outside the studio of stuff I've produced over the past 40 years. Some of it I just haven't a clue about. Indeed some stuff I have absolutely no recollection whatsoever of producing. But my name is on the box......

:wink:
 

TJBMike

Member
RE: AND I LOVE HER..
While I happily agree most of "Treasures" is no earlier than about '68 through mid-70s, I'd place And I Love Her as MUCH earlier--esp. with the latin percussion, reminiscient of the slower ballads on SOB and WC.I'd say '64 or '65; I played it similarly on my horn w/a combo when I was in 6th grade in '73, and always imagined if Herb had done it, he would have recorded it exactly as it appears!...:)
I also think "Flowers on the Wall" does indeed have the more comical, playful side of late '66, WNML or SRO vintage.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
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I've actually considered that "Flowers" and "Tennessee" waltz may have been unused tracks from the "Brass Are Comin'" album, given the western theme. "And I Love Her" does indeed sound like earlier TJB, possibly "Going Places" era just from the guitar sound.
 
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