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Lovelines...1980?

Jarred

Well-Known Member
There's no way Richard would use Bob James/Rod Temperton arrangements on a Carpenters' album.
But...he did....

It doesn’t matter that it was after her death, he still used a non-Carpenters arrangement on his album. (Unless those two men had no contribution to the LL tracks, but still I disagree).
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
But...he did....

It doesn’t matter that it was after her death, he still used a non-Carpenters arrangement on his album. (Unless those two men had no contribution to the LL tracks, but still I disagree).
No, he never did. He used Karen's solo tracks on "Lovelines" but they were used with the understanding of what they were and where they came from. Your arguing semantics big time.

Ed
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
No, he never did. He used Karen's solo tracks on "Lovelines" but they were used with the understanding of what they were and where they came from. Your arguing semantics big time.

Ed
No one is saying that he would never tell the public that the solo tracks were his own, but that they would divulge the truth that a couple of songs were Karen’s solo stuff.
 

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
A flourish to me is the odd overdub or two. Not a chorale choir, new string arrangement, several other musicians and a new bridge.
Absolutely. The solo and Voice of the Heart versions of 'Make Believe...' sound almost like two separate songs. The 'feel' of each version is completely different from the other one. Which is largely down to the very different production/arrangement approach taken on the song by Phil and Richard.

This is in fact one of those rare occasions in their later career where Richard *didn't* take many cues at all from a previously recorded version when producing his own version of a song.
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
Listening to Bobby Vinton's version of MBIYFT reinforces the weaknesses of the entire song.
However, Karen's solo version elevates the song to an entirely different (better) level.
Richard's arrangement takes the song back to the level that Vinton started...(imho).
Bobby Vinton, Make Believe It's Your First Time:
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Thread Starter
Listening to Bobby Vinton's version of MBIYFT reinforces the weaknesses of the entire song.
However, Karen's solo version elevates the song to an entirely different (better) level.
Richard's arrangement takes the song back to the level that Vinton started...(imho).
Never heard this before, thank you for posting. Yeah, it's similar to Richard's, right down to the pedal steel guitar licks. For some reason, for the first time I can almost hear Dolly Parton singing this as a country song.
 

Jorge

New Member
I wonder what were Karen's thoughts on this. When Richard told her they would record MBIYFT with his own arrangement. And what was her honest opinion when she was presented with the final recording. Her solo performance nailed it, but Carpenters' version was dreadful.
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Listening to Bobby Vinton's version of MBIYFT reinforces the weaknesses of the entire song.
However, Karen's solo version elevates the song to an entirely different (better) level.
Richard's arrangement takes the song back to the level that Vinton started...(imho).
Bobby Vinton, Make Believe It's Your First Time:
What a plodding mess this is. Interesting to hear though. It also reverses the two verses which makes zero sense. Karen's solo version is the only one I need to hear.

Ed
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Thread Starter
I wonder what were Karen's thoughts on this. When Richard told her they would record MBIYFT with his own arrangement.
I'd love to know what she thought about that too. We're all human and if that had been me in her shoes, my first thought would have been "right...so you told me my album was sh*t but now one of the songs is good enough that you want to re-cut it?"
 

Song4uman

Well-Known Member
I think Siedah sounds superb on the track and wish she had been around in 1980 as she could have made a fantastic contribution to the tracks which were recorded for Made In America. I read a couple of places that she has perfect pitch as a singer (which a lot of sessions singers do).
If released in 1980, Richard probably would have added choir vocals to the background. 😂
 

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
What a plodding mess this is. Interesting to hear though. It also reverses the two verses which makes zero sense. Karen's solo version is the only one I need to hear.

Ed
Yes, I'd forgotten about the Bobby Vinton version. Like you say, it's not very good. Weird hearing the verses reversed (doesn't make sense either in terms of what the lyrics say). However, it did manage to chart I think, making something like #78?

I have to take back my earlier comment about Richard not taking cues from earlier versions when producing his version of 'Make Believe...' - he clearly had heard the Bobby Vinton version as there are a number of similarities between his and Vinton's versions.
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
I'd love to know what she thought about that too. We're all human and if that had been me in her shoes, my first thought would have been "right...so you told me my album was sh*t but now one of the songs is good enough that you want to re-cut it?"
Exactly! And re-record her lead to boot!! Makes you wonder how a girl that used to "mix it up" with the boys on the streets of New Haven would tolerate RC "cherry picking" tracks off her beloved solo work to re-do. In the case of MBIYFT, it was PERFECT as produced by Phil Ramone. Richard didn't enhance the song in any way, shape, or form.
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
Richard re-cutting that track with Karen speaks volumes. I’m surprised she went along with it, but she had total faith in him.

I do like the added bridge. BUT, the solo version is EPIC and can’t be beat.

The redo sounds like Lawrence Welk with his magic wand.
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
How many of you would swap out Karen’s solo vocal and replace it with the C’s vocal but with the solo arrangement?
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
How many of you would swap out Karen’s solo vocal and replace it with the C’s vocal but with the solo arrangement?
Karen's vocal on her solo album is just perfection. I wouldn't change a thing about the arrangement or her vocal. Bob James knew what to do with the tune and Phil knew to get out of her way and let her sing.

Ed
 

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
Sometimes less is more. Her vocal on the solo version is intimate, tender, and vulnerable - and suits the subject matter perfectly!
I agree. Sometimes a change in vocal style is needed to properly convey the correct feeling of the song. The vocal on the Voice of the Heart version of 'Make Believe...' is very nice and trademark Karen, but the song really calls for a more vulnerable take, which the vocal on the solo album version does much better.

The same is true on certain Carpenters tracks - 'The Uninvited Guest' for instance contains a more tentative and vulnerable vocal from Karen than usual, which is entirely in keeping with the song's subject matter.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Thread Starter
I've always been puzzled by a lyric anomaly between the two versions. On the VOTH version she sings "We've been around the game enough/To know the score", but on the solo version it becomes "We've been around again enough/To know the score". The lyric on the solo version doesn't even make grammatical sense.

The other thing I noticed is that the VOTH version is in a lower key, which suits Karen much better. Phil has her singing too high.
 

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
I've always been puzzled by a lyric anomaly between the two versions. On the VOTH version she sings "We've been around the game enough/To know the score", but on the solo version it becomes "We've been around again enough/To know the score". The lyric on the solo version doesn't even make grammatical sense.

The other thing I noticed is that the VOTH version is in a lower key, which suits Karen much better. Phil has her singing too high.
I don't know about the key point - in this case I think making Karen sing higher on this was to give a more fragile touch to the vocal, which had a purpose for this song. The VOTH vocal is richer for sure, but in this case I don't think that would have been appropriate for what this song needed.
 
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