• Two exciting new Carpenters releases are now available. The new book Carpenters: The Musical Legacy can be ordered here. A big thanks to the authors and Richard Carpenter for their tremendous effort in compiling this book! Also, the new solo piano album Richard Carpenter's Piano Songbook is available for ordering here.

Lovelines

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Well, Everybody did so well with the VOTH session info...Let's see what dates we can come up with for the "Lovelines" recordings.
 

OceanKing

New Member
No mystery. Richard wrote extensive liner notes for LOVELINES, complete with dates and source albums for all the tracks.
 

Rockduo

Member
Indeed. :)

1. "Lovelines" - early 1980 (KC solo)
2. "Where Do I Go From Here?" - 1978
3. "The Uninvited Guest" - 1980 (Made In America outtake)
4. "If We Try" - 1979 or early 1980 (KC solo)
5. "When I Fall In Love" - 1978 ('Space Encounters' outtake)
6. "Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night" - 1980 (MIA outtake)
7. "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night - 1979 or early 1980 (KC solo)
8. "You're The One" - 1977 (Passage outtake)
9. "Honolulu City Lights" - 1978
10. "Slow Dance" - 1978
11. "If I Had You" - 1979 or early 1980 (KC solo)
12. "Little Girl Blue" - 1978 (from 'Space Encounters')


The last song bumped "When I Fall In Love" for the 1978 TV special. But the latter was used for 'Music, Music, Music'.
 

PJ

Member
This is a great Album considering the diverse selection and sources of the tracks :D


Sadly was caught up in the sale of A&M to Polygram and was never fully promoted or awareness highlighted to larger Carpenters Fan base :o

Still could be more successful if Universal had any imagination or Richard moved to a more responsive Record Company :)

Peter
 

Bruno

Member
The songs on LOVELINES are, in my opinion, much much better than those on VOICE OF THE HEART. With the right promotion, this album could have done much better on the international charts than it did.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
As many here know, I work at a radio station, and one that in the past played its share of Carpenters records when it was fashionable to do so back in the '70s and into the early '80s. When LOVELINES came out, the station had long abandonded the playing of any Carpenters records. I remember being delighted to find the album selling in the stores and couldn't wait to get home to listen to it.

The really upsetting part regarding LOVELINES was finding a copy of the promo disc of the album that had bent sent to the sation being used as a coaster on someone's desk! Since it wasn't in too terrible a shape, I rescued it.

I enjoyed LOVELINES at the time, but find it harder to listen to these days with the solo stuff having been released on its own album.

Harry
...remembering, online...
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
It's partially a perception issue, but to me, I really don't get into anything after Passage. Made In America barely got played here (my LP's probably been played a half dozen times), and I've never really pursued the others, other than on used vinyl or CD. In a way, the later releases almost felt like some kind of cash-in on someone's misfortune. (Especially after seeing the way other musicians were exploited after their deaths.) It's not really the case with Carpenters since Richard still maintains the high musical standards and goes out of his way to find us new material to listen to (vs. a random record executive rehashing yet another Elvis or Hendrix CD). But I must say that I've always been biased toward earlier Carpenters. The peak, for me, has always been A Song For You which, IMHO, almost plays like a "greatest hits" collection due to the overall high quality of songs on it. In fact, I'd probably just take that album to the Desert Island and save myself having to pick a list of songs... :wink: (Although i would not be above padding it with favorites from Close To You and Carpenters. :D )

-= N =-
 

testerguy35

New Member
I was born in 1966 (ok, i'm old) and I remember the early Carpenters when I was very young. I didn't discover the later stuff (1976-1982) until about 12 years ago. So, like Rudy, I'm really a fan of the early, innocent more raw sound they had, and like Rudy, my favorite album is Song for You. Horizon is a close second.
Steve
 

Bruno

Member
As Carpenters had their breakthrough in Germany not before TOP OF THE WORLD and YESTERDAY ONCE MORE, I didn't know any of the early Carpenters songs, when I discovered the duo in 1981. Those two songs, POSTMAN and HUSH were frequently played on German radio in the Seventies, so I grew up listening to those songs.

In 1982 I bought THE SINGLES 1969-1973 album on vinyl, and was surprised by the many songs I had never heard before. I was even more surprised when I found out that Carpenters had their first hit in the US with CLOSE TO YOU, a song, I was never very fond of. Tastes are different!
 

Geographer

Well-Known Member
Personally, I LOVE the later releases. The material was perfect for them to transcend from the 70's to the 80's. A much more "mature" sound in comparison to Karen's sexually oriented solo stuff. I especially love Made In America and Lovelines. Voice of the Heart is not one of my favorites, but it has some great songs on it.

When I first listened to Lovelines my first reaction is that there was so much strong material on it that I could not believe Richard didn't release them sooner or on VOTH. Many of the songs on Lovelines are superior to many songs on VOTH. Forgive my Monday-moring quarterbacking, but Richard should have included "Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night," "Your the One," and "Where Do I Go From Here," on VOTH instead of "Make Believe It's Your First Time," and "Prime Time Love."

"Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night" is a GREAT tune. Why A&M didn't consider this a follow-up single to "If I Had You" is always a mystery to me. In my opinion it was one of the Carpenters best works.

Geographer
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
When I first listened to Lovelines my first reaction is that there was so much strong material on it that I could not believe Richard didn't release them sooner or on VOTH. Many of the songs on Lovelines are superior to many songs on VOTH. Forgive my Monday-moring quarterbacking, but Richard should have included "Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night," "Your the One," and "Where Do I Go From Here," on VOTH instead of "Make Believe It's Your First Time," and "Prime Time Love."

I think you have to consider the times and what Richard was going through to attempt understanding any logic about the releases of the late '70s and the '80s.

When the world lost Karen in 1983, it was a devastating blow, not just to us, but to her brother and partner Richard. Put yourself in his place. His family, his career, virtually all that he was, was irrevocably changed by Karen's death. As a "try-to-come-out-of-it" gesture, he put on his blinders and ploughed through the session tapes that were done for VOICE OF THE HEART, and added those few leftovers that fit in, just to attempt to complete a final studio album as a tribute to his sister's talent, and to perhaps put the final coda on the career of 'Carpenters.'

The results of those labors were certainly less than desirable -- VOICE OF THE HEART had some minor airplay on a few A/C stations and sold with lukewarm response. Pretty disappointing, I'd suspect to Richard -- and at that point in time, I suspect he'd resigned himself that for all intents and purposes, his career as he knew it was just about over. After doing a similar ploughing through of Christmas material and releasing AN OLD FASHIONED CHRISTMAS, it appears that his family, friends, and peers at A&M must have suggested that he attempt to forge ahead on his own. In the liner notes for TIME, his solo album, he mentions the long time it took to complete that album due both to his own reticence about getting into the studio and the fact that the A&M studios were undergoing renovations at the time. Again, after many long hard hours of work, TIME was met with virtually no enthusiasm at all from the public -- radio all but ignored it, except for a little airplay for "Something In Your Eyes". As a radio insider, I got to see the reaction on that one. Most didn't understand why the record's label listed Richard Carpenter as the artist when it was clearly, to them, a Dusty Springfield record!

It appears that Richard then retreated to Japan, where THAT public still seemed to be clamoring for more Carpenters material -- new or not. So he dusted off a unreleased track or two and released them in Japan on various compilations, along with some fresh remixes. These were met with GREAT success over there, while we in the States were largely ignorant of their existence.

It was likely a combination of Richard's desire and the record company, A&M, still owned and operated by 'family' Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss, to have him produce and release more unreleased tracks for the twentieth anniversary that led to LOVELINES. For the most part, it was comprised of tracks from Karen's solo album and tracks left over from the later-year album sessions.

I know that I was surprised when I first heard LOVELINES at the strength of these 'leftovers', and was thrilled to have a new Carpenters album to listen to, and I found that I liked it more than VOICE OF THE HEART or even MADE IN AMERICA. Since the ultimate release of the KAREN CARPENTER album, LOVELINES has fallen a bit in my estimation, since there's a repetition of four tracks that belong more naturally to that solo effort, even though they got a bit of Richard's tinkering to attempt to make them 'Carpenters' songs.

I guess my point here is that we the fans can ONLY do 'Monday Morning quarterbacking' when it comes to which song showed up where and when. I do agree that some seemingly poor decisions were made back then as to which songs to exclude from albums, but the overall effect is that at a later point in time, these were all eventually presented to us and were most welcomed.

Harry
NP: LOVELINES
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Geographer said:
"Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night" is a GREAT tune. Why A&M didn't consider this a follow-up single to "If I Had You" is always a mystery to me. In my opinion it was one of the Carpenters best works.

Personally, Geographer, I agree with you. I remember dragging in my new-found copy of LOVELINES in to our radio station's Program Director's office and playing "Kiss Me..." for her. She seemed to enjoy it, but never put it on the air. I wish A&M had promoted it.

Harry
NP: LOVELINES
 

Bruno

Member
I do agree, that LOVELINES is much better than VOTH.

But it's not quite right, that VOTH didn't do well on the charts. In the US, ok, but look at the British charts: To my knowledge VOTH rechead Nr.5 in the album charts in autumn 1983.

Ofcourse, VOTH would never have reached this high chart position, if it would'nt have been "promoted" by Karen's death.
 

PJ

Member
VOTH was very successful in both Chart and Sales terms for UK and overall Worldwide , 800,000 Sales in USA , high sales in Europe , Japan and Asia.In part due to Karen's death , Richard's promotional visits and partly to strong support from A&M International.

VOTH reached #6 IN UK Album Charts with continued Sales with the CD / Remastered re-issues.Sales are over 750,000 for UK alone.

Both Lovelines and VOTH are favourite Albums , perhaps VOTH is weakened by Prime Time Love ....a weak song ....but personally I love both Sets for the songs , arrangements , production and Karen's sublime vocals..... :D

The tragedy for Lovelines is that this set was released too late after the success of Karen Carpenter Story TV Film and caught up in the sale of A&M to Polygram , very little attention was given to this release in 1989 / 1990 sadly...... :sad:

Even with the huge success of 1990's Their Greatest Hits and other Worldwide compiliations , Lovelines was ignored ....and still is :sad:

Honolulu City Lights & Slowdance as Singles were successful in Japan / Asia , but Karen's If I Had You and a promo You're The One were not promoted to support the Album.

There are other Studio tracks and I am sure some more gems that should be released......just need a Record company that appreciates unissued , but not inferior material and actually promotes / supports new recordings alongside the original Albums and Singles / Hits Collections...... :D

Peter....ever hopeful .......
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
Thinking of "Lovelines" brings back special memories of when it was released in the fall of 1989. When I think about it, that is the one disc that has been released since Karen's passing that I have enjoyed the most and brought the most excitement.

Do you all remember how even though the single of "If I Had You" was not a 'hit', it did climb the charts? It got fairly high on the Adult Contemporary chart. It received some significant airplay on the radio, too. Hearing "If I Had You" played many times on the air was so much fun. I remember one DJ, after the song ended, saying "Man, that is hot!! That is the late, great Karen Carpenter".

As far as the single of "You're the One", I only heard it on the radio once, but the DJ said "Yes, that's Karen Carpenter. We always get many calls asking about that song when we play it".
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
VOTH reached #6 IN UK Album Charts with continued Sales with the CD / Remastered re-issues.Sales are over 750,000 for UK alone.

Interesting Peter, and another example of how the Carpenters' home country deserted them. Voice Of The Heart never even made the top 40 here in the States. I have no information on how many albums have subsequently sold, but even in the face of the tragic death of Karen, the album failed to stir much interest here in the US. "Make Believe It's Your First Time" got some radio airplay and showed up on the Adult Contempoary charts for a short time, but other than that, it was barely a blip on the radar, and nothing like what they accomplished in their '70s heyday.

Harry
NP: Voice Of The Heart, Carpenters
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
In the eyes of radio programmers, the Carpenters probably look to "square" for US listeners. That was initially part of the reason they were rejected early on...then "Close To You" was completely unavoidable and couldn't be ignored. Then again, IMHO, a lot of what they've produced is too good for radio anyway. :D We'll keep it all to ourselves. :wink:

-= N =-
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
I have always wished that Richard would start an exhaustive search for a new female vocal partner, and make a new album! He certainly has the time to audition people, and it's been long enough since the loss of Karen that he should be able to be objective. Obviously nobody will or could ever replace Karen, but I'd sure like to hear Richard apply his touch to some new material.

My favorite Carps albums are CLOSE TO YOU and A SONG FOR YOU (not in that order) because they took more chances with the sound (Richard singing, short instrumentals, little bits of comedy, tracks sequing into one another, etc.). Those were the days.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
Mike Blakesley said:
I have always wished that Richard would start an exhaustive search for a new female vocal partner, and make a new album!

THANK YOU!!!

That's been a pet peeve of mine. No, you can't replace her, but Richard's ear, his talent for arranging, his musical skills...he's excellent at what he does. Rather than digging through archives and remixing, I'd be one of the first in line to buy a new project that featured new Richard Carpenter arrangements. Get Paul Williams and Roger Nichols to write a few hits, and give John Bettis a call...it might not be the old days, but you'd be damned sure there would be some great quality music being made! (Probably too good for most of the Top 40 radio listeners!)

My favorite Carps albums are CLOSE TO YOU and A SONG FOR YOU (not in that order) because they took more chances with the sound (Richard singing, short instrumentals, little bits of comedy, tracks sequing into one another, etc.). Those were the days.

Today, mine would rank A Song For You, Carpenters, Passage and Close To You. (The last three are in a near tie for 2nd place.) I like most of the rest of them, but never warmed to Ticket To Ride (even after knowing it for 30 years), and anything starting with Made in America and after never really sparked my interest. (I can't say I've played MIA more than a dozen times in my life...anything after was purchased more for completeness than any other reason.) There's just something magical about A Song For You that, to me, outshines everything else. It really clicked! :D

-= N =-
 

Bruno

Member
Being German, I was happy to find the lyrics of MIA and VOTH printed on the inner sleeve of these albums.

LOVELINES doesn't include the lyrics of the songs. I speak English pretty good, but sometimes I just don't understand what Karen is singing.

Does anybody of you guys know, where I can get these lyrics? Thank you!

Bruno

I think, the only female singers singing with Richard will be his own daughters. I bet so.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Rudy said:
Mike Blakesley said:
I have always wished that Richard would start an exhaustive search for a new female vocal partner, and make a new album!

THANK YOU!!!

That's been a pet peeve of mine. No, you can't replace her, but Richard's ear, his talent for arranging, his musical skills...he's excellent at what he does. Rather than digging through archives and remixing, I'd be one of the first in line to buy a new project that featured new Richard Carpenter arrangements.

I'm guessing that you guys haven't heard of Akiko, Veronique or even Scott Grimes. These are three vocalists that have had albums produced and arranged by Richard Carpenter in the years since Karen's death.

Scott Grimes was a young singer who had worked with Richard on his TIME album, singing lead on one track. In 1989, Richard (and Herb Alpert!) worked with Scott to produce one self-titled album for A&M. It never went anywhere, but it has a couple of nifty trademark Carpenter arrangements and even backing tracks. Richard co-wrote one of the songs.

I myself, am unfamiliar with the Veronique album. I'm pretty sure she's French-Canadian. But the Akiko album, simply called AKIKO, and released on Voss records back in 1989, is the one with the biggest "chill factor". As a vocalist, the Japanese Akiko sounds so much like Karen Carpenter at times, it's scary. Richard co-wrote two of the songs -- one with old partner John Bettis and one with newer partner Pamela Phillips Oland, who also co-wrote two others on this album. Richard does keyboards and backing vocals on most tracks and is joined by familiar studio friends like Joe Osborn, Tim May, Paulinho Da Costa, Earle Dumler and Ron Gorow. Many of the titles are sung in Japanese, but a few are done in English, and at times only Akiko's accent betrays the fact that she's NOT Karen Carpenter. Best tracks: "Only The Angels Know" with its gentle samba rhythm and "How Could I Ask For More?", the Carpenter/Bettis tune.

I'm pretty sure that all of these are out of print, but can be found on-and-off at used record sources and online auctions.

Harry
NP: AKIKO, Akiko
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
They must have come and gone with minimal fanfare (which is a shame)--granted I'm not a watchdog for everything Richard does, but the only one I may have heard of was the Akiko recording. That's also only three recordings, though...we need to get this guy to do some more. :wink:

-= N =-
 

Bruno

Member
I've heard Scott Grimes singing on TIME, but his own album never was released in Europe.

What is he doing nowadays? And where did Richard find him?
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I believe Scott Grimes turned to acting. A check at the Internet Movie Database would reveal his acting work. http://www.imdb.com

I recall that he was scheduled to appear (and was filmed) for a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode as one of Wesley Crusher's friends. It's the first episode of the third season where Dr. Crusher returns and Wesley's experimenting with the nanites. There was supposed to be a scene where Wesley is seen hanging around with some friends his own age on the ship, and Scott Grimes played in that scene. All that remains of his appearance is a quick shot of his face in the final scene where Wesley goes over to his friends in 10 Forward. Scott Grimes' face can be seen for a split second as he turns toward the camera.

Harry
...heading upstairs to watch a different episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation , online...
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
Gads...that IMDB opened up four pop-under ads on my computer. Had my Proxomitron disabled, unfortunately...they sure know how to chase someone away!

No photo of Scott Grimes there. None of the other listings were anything I was familiar with. Next time I can watch some ST:TNG, I'll need to watch for it.

-= N =-
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom