"Made in America" Question
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jfiedler17
Well-Known Member
Nah, I don't think it was the title at all. There could have been any number of better titles, but I don't think that the Made in America title hurt its sales potential.
I think it was A) the album cover, definitely,
and B) most of MIA just sounds really backwards for a 1981 pop album, and most of the cuts would have sounded much more in place on earlier albums. "I Believe You" was already three years old at that point, "TGOD" is a good record but sounds about eight or nine years late, and ditto for "Beechwood 4-5789." Had R&K had more contemporary-sounding-at-the-time singles on here like "Touch Me" and "Back in My ..." to go on, I think MIA would have done much better. This album was just too much of a retreat away from Passage, and a little too soft-sounding, IMO.
Jeff F.
I think it was A) the album cover, definitely,
and B) most of MIA just sounds really backwards for a 1981 pop album, and most of the cuts would have sounded much more in place on earlier albums. "I Believe You" was already three years old at that point, "TGOD" is a good record but sounds about eight or nine years late, and ditto for "Beechwood 4-5789." Had R&K had more contemporary-sounding-at-the-time singles on here like "Touch Me" and "Back in My ..." to go on, I think MIA would have done much better. This album was just too much of a retreat away from Passage, and a little too soft-sounding, IMO.
Jeff F.
andywithaz
Well-Known Member
I don't think that it was the title either. MIA was a great album but lacked hits like A Song For You. It didn't have that charm of the earlier album (well except Hush.) Beechwood really ruined the album, made it kind of embarrasing.
But it does define an era of the Carpenters.
But it does define an era of the Carpenters.
jfiedler17 said:
Wasn't it B.B.King who sang, "The thrill is gone"? IMHO the magic was just gone from that album. I agree--there was an opportunity there to go with a mroe contemporary sound and dump some of the sappy tunes (which also IMHO showed they had slipped into the sound their worst critics always accused them of). Passage was the last album of theirs I really connected with. I don't think I played MIA more than a dozen times in my life...and once or twice for any album that followed MIA. I keep thinking of the highlights like A Song For You, and that is a tough standard to live up to. And I don't think that cover helped any either.
Mark-T
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I agree that the thrill is gone, as I was quite excited about there finally being a new album-
(and of course, getting to hear THE VOICE sing something new!)
but I did feel as if the album sounded like an oldie played on the radio that had been released many many years before.
It brought a warm feeling of reminiscing and familiarity- but nothing new and astounding.
(and of course, getting to hear THE VOICE sing something new!)
but I did feel as if the album sounded like an oldie played on the radio that had been released many many years before.
It brought a warm feeling of reminiscing and familiarity- but nothing new and astounding.
350hunny
New Member
I don't think either the title nor the cover art affected the album sales.
At least, not a main influence on the sales.
To begin with, I do not buy records because of them. Personally I fall in love with the artist's voice and songs that the voice delivers so I feel like buying an album of the voice.
I think I have bought a couple of records just for the cover art but I don't remember what they were.
I sometimes buy records because of their catchy songs, especially singles and if they are good enough, I will buy albums, too. If these albums are not so appealing, I won't buy following releases.
I like the title that Mother Carpenter came up with after finding the logo on Richard(?)'s T-shirt and the cover art, which makes me wonder why A&M didn't use the duo's photo. Richard didn't like the hair extending over the back cover.
What I feel that affected the sales of MIA is A&M's direction into New Wave. I feel Carpenters didn't get enough support by the label.
Captain & Tennille The Complete Hits linernotes read:
Pop radio was undergoing a revolution in the late '70s. Pop and Rock music were being eclipsed by Disco, and New Wave was a rising force as teh cutting edge alternative. A&M Records embraced the New Wave movement with open arms, alienating many of their traditional artists. "I had a coversation with Karen Carpenter out on the lot at A&M around the time they signed the Sex Pistols," says Toni. "She was incensed about the direction the label was going.
'We were the kind of music that made the label,' she said,
'and how could they do this?'"
"Then they gave the Sex Pistols a parking space, and we didn't have one," wryly adds Daryl. The writing was on the wall (and pavement).
At least, not a main influence on the sales.
To begin with, I do not buy records because of them. Personally I fall in love with the artist's voice and songs that the voice delivers so I feel like buying an album of the voice.
I think I have bought a couple of records just for the cover art but I don't remember what they were.
I sometimes buy records because of their catchy songs, especially singles and if they are good enough, I will buy albums, too. If these albums are not so appealing, I won't buy following releases.
I like the title that Mother Carpenter came up with after finding the logo on Richard(?)'s T-shirt and the cover art, which makes me wonder why A&M didn't use the duo's photo. Richard didn't like the hair extending over the back cover.
What I feel that affected the sales of MIA is A&M's direction into New Wave. I feel Carpenters didn't get enough support by the label.
Captain & Tennille The Complete Hits linernotes read:
Pop radio was undergoing a revolution in the late '70s. Pop and Rock music were being eclipsed by Disco, and New Wave was a rising force as teh cutting edge alternative. A&M Records embraced the New Wave movement with open arms, alienating many of their traditional artists. "I had a coversation with Karen Carpenter out on the lot at A&M around the time they signed the Sex Pistols," says Toni. "She was incensed about the direction the label was going.
'We were the kind of music that made the label,' she said,
'and how could they do this?'"
"Then they gave the Sex Pistols a parking space, and we didn't have one," wryly adds Daryl. The writing was on the wall (and pavement).
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Wasn't the logo 'Made In America' on Karen's sweater top as opposed to Richard's ?
I can't find it to post, but check the Coleman book picture, where mom and dad visit the studio to hear the strings added to the album - its on her sweater top.
Stephen
350hunny
New Member
Thank you Stephen. I looked for the photo, which is found between p270 and p271. Still I can't decipher the logo which is hardly seen but I believe you. I can barely read M.
I remember reading in one of the fan club newsletters that Mom Carpenter picked out the title from either of the duo's T-shirt.
I think I have read about it in an interview with them.
Thank God I have the Coleman book.
I remember reading in one of the fan club newsletters that Mom Carpenter picked out the title from either of the duo's T-shirt.
I think I have read about it in an interview with them.
Thank God I have the Coleman book.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
It is hard to decipher but its definitely the one - there's another photo out there somewhere of Karen close up during the same session, she's sitting beside the mixing board leaning forward and laughing to someone and you can see the words 'Made In America' plain as day.
Stephen
Stephen
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Richard had Cynthia Gibb wear a lot of Karen's original clothing for the film. Examples:
Treadmill clip = Karen's 'Made In America' jogging outfit
This Masquerade + others = Karen's yellow suit (a la Good Old Dreams)
There are loads more, it's well known Richard used and has kept most of Karen's wardrobe til this day, and Cynthia Gibb wore them. In the film, they used the original ambulance and crew that had picked Karen up that day.
Stephen
Treadmill clip = Karen's 'Made In America' jogging outfit
This Masquerade + others = Karen's yellow suit (a la Good Old Dreams)
There are loads more, it's well known Richard used and has kept most of Karen's wardrobe til this day, and Cynthia Gibb wore them. In the film, they used the original ambulance and crew that had picked Karen up that day.
Stephen
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Stephen, I didn't know about these tibit of info about the tv movie. Wow can you imagine how Cynthia felt wearing Karen's clothes? I remember reading that she watched alot of Karen's videos to make sure she held even the mic the same exact way Karen did.
I really like Cynthia as an actress, but I think someone like Brooke Adams could have done a even more realistic feel. Brooke reminds me alot of Karen's look especially when she was younger. If you look at Brooke now, you can possibly get a glimpse of what Karen might have looked like today. Of course not exactly but she does have some resemblence.
I really like Cynthia as an actress, but I think someone like Brooke Adams could have done a even more realistic feel. Brooke reminds me alot of Karen's look especially when she was younger. If you look at Brooke now, you can possibly get a glimpse of what Karen might have looked like today. Of course not exactly but she does have some resemblence.
Jeff
Well-Known Member
C. Gibb may have held the mic as K did, but her lip-synching stunk. I used to think that Karen Allen could've done a K bio-pic.
Now, where is the theatrical K story? TV was highly rated and I was astonished to hear some of the remixes, unreleased trax, but the production seemed sloppy. I'd like to see Karen's legacy depicted on celluloid with the care and precision that she exercised in her work. A well-rounded characterization. More emphasis on her body of work, her general style and highlighting her personality. The DRAMA focusing solely on K's misfortune slighted the American public...at least me anyway. Karen was so much more than an ailment and too often her lingering memory is one of peril.
This forum is both respectful and inquisitive. Upholding the artist, the duo/group with dignity and integrity. Our moderator has been instrumental in guiding the flavor of these threads.
Jeff
Now, where is the theatrical K story? TV was highly rated and I was astonished to hear some of the remixes, unreleased trax, but the production seemed sloppy. I'd like to see Karen's legacy depicted on celluloid with the care and precision that she exercised in her work. A well-rounded characterization. More emphasis on her body of work, her general style and highlighting her personality. The DRAMA focusing solely on K's misfortune slighted the American public...at least me anyway. Karen was so much more than an ailment and too often her lingering memory is one of peril.
This forum is both respectful and inquisitive. Upholding the artist, the duo/group with dignity and integrity. Our moderator has been instrumental in guiding the flavor of these threads.
Jeff
350hunny
New Member
How about this pic of Brooke Adams?
http://www.digitalhit.com/sag/10/sag04-5.jpg
I read a Cynthia's interview with a movie mag called Road Show and the guys from the ambulance said it was spooky that the same guys as had taken Karen to Downey Community Hospital were called on to shoot the scene.
The first time I saw the scene where Karen was taken to the ER on a stretcher, wearing an oxygen mask though, she looked a lot like Karen.
As is mentioned in other chronicles, Richard regretted having joined in the movie project, which seemingly allowed him an executive producer but turned out that he had been just used.
A lot of people still believe that Karen died of starvation.
That's a great shame.
Incidentally, Mrs. Carpenter contributed to Carpenters by giving a name not only to the Made In America album, but also to the Now & Then album.
http://www.digitalhit.com/sag/10/sag04-5.jpg
I read a Cynthia's interview with a movie mag called Road Show and the guys from the ambulance said it was spooky that the same guys as had taken Karen to Downey Community Hospital were called on to shoot the scene.
The first time I saw the scene where Karen was taken to the ER on a stretcher, wearing an oxygen mask though, she looked a lot like Karen.
As is mentioned in other chronicles, Richard regretted having joined in the movie project, which seemingly allowed him an executive producer but turned out that he had been just used.
A lot of people still believe that Karen died of starvation.
That's a great shame.
Incidentally, Mrs. Carpenter contributed to Carpenters by giving a name not only to the Made In America album, but also to the Now & Then album.
Really we are looking back 23 years ....with hindsight on Carpenters MIA album ....this remains a popular album with new & younger fans and less so with original fans ... 
When MIA was released in 1981....I saw this as a transistional album ....a return to more pop based sound after themed Christmas Portrait & unexpected different styles of Passage ....Carpenters had more energy than on recent material and this is probably why Richard still favours this set ....
The next album (due Summer 1983) plus several 1980's follow up's would have defined Carpenters sound during this period and how their legacy would be seen ....since MIA was sadly Karen's last actively involved Carpenters release ....this has coloured preceptions ....probably unfairly by some long term fans ....while not a favourite album ...this has several outstanding tracks ....and should be appreciated ....we cannot change history or MIA place in Carpenters time line ....
Peter
When MIA was released in 1981....I saw this as a transistional album ....a return to more pop based sound after themed Christmas Portrait & unexpected different styles of Passage ....Carpenters had more energy than on recent material and this is probably why Richard still favours this set ....
The next album (due Summer 1983) plus several 1980's follow up's would have defined Carpenters sound during this period and how their legacy would be seen ....since MIA was sadly Karen's last actively involved Carpenters release ....this has coloured preceptions ....probably unfairly by some long term fans ....while not a favourite album ...this has several outstanding tracks ....and should be appreciated ....we cannot change history or MIA place in Carpenters time line ....
Peter
I would say the title did not hurt. The cover probably did, a bit. After a couple of classy-looking covers, they went for one that looks, well, exceedingly cheap. The music was fairly tired as well and probably didn't help much either.
Richard Carpenter's distaste for their early covers is well known. He said he was sick of being told to "smile" all the time. So they had a string of smile-less covers, each of which sold less than the one before. My theory has always been that after PASSAGE flopped, someone in the marketing dept. said, "We've got to get them to smile on the cover again....THAT'S the key." So we got the HUSH and MIA covers. Both sold poorly, so it must have been the music.
Actually, Carpenters were really past their peak by the time of MIA so probably no kind of cover would have made much difference.
Richard Carpenter's distaste for their early covers is well known. He said he was sick of being told to "smile" all the time. So they had a string of smile-less covers, each of which sold less than the one before. My theory has always been that after PASSAGE flopped, someone in the marketing dept. said, "We've got to get them to smile on the cover again....THAT'S the key." So we got the HUSH and MIA covers. Both sold poorly, so it must have been the music.
Actually, Carpenters were really past their peak by the time of MIA so probably no kind of cover would have made much difference.
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
I really like the Made In America album. I was soooo happy when it was finally released after waiting years for it. "Touch Me When We're Dancing" had the pop hit sound going for it. So did "Strength Of A Woman". Unfortunatley, there were also some real sappy songs on the album as well. I don't think the cover art or title had anything at all to do with the albums sales or lack of. As a whole, the album seemed to head in a different direction of MOR/adult contemporary, instead of mainstream top 40. Richard pushed that direction even further with Voice Of The Heart by adding choirs as backing vocals, instead of using backup singers (on tracks that Karen had not completed). This seemed to be the direction he was aiming for starting with Made In America. Personally, I would have preferred a lot less choir (if any) and a lot more pop, but that's not the way it was to be. So, it is what it is. Having said that, Made In America does showcase Karen's awesome vocal range and Richard's ability to arrange and orchestrate and produce a great album.
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