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Mr Guder-Single

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Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Morning Opens Quietly...
Thread Starter
I was going through all my singles tonight & having a great time when I came across this regarding this single.

I have the Merry Christmas Darling-Original Stereo Single & the Flip side of Mr Guder, it runs approx 2:35

Did you guys know that this is the short version. I was listening to this & getting ready to hum that next part & it wasn't there & the single stopped & I said "What the heck, that is too short" :)

I went back to the album-Close to You & this same song runs 3:15.

On the album there is the added ending of "Please...Play your game, stay the same....then the instrumental part plays.

Maybe this is not new news but it is for me cause I'm just discovering all these singles again.

So does that mean there are other single 45's that are different from the original tracks?
 

PJ

Member
Chris :

Will have to check out Mr Guder Edit on MCD Promo Single, Probably Not Played in Years! :shock:

Yes, There are Several Famous Carpenters Singles Edits :

1. Close To You (3:40) From 1970 , Edited For Radio Airplay.

2. I Need To Be In Love (3:25) From 1976, Without Richard's
Memorable Piano Intro.

3. Only Yesterday(3:45) From 1975 , Cuts Away Famous Closing
Harmonies.

4. Calling Occupants(3:59) From 1977, Reduces 7 minutes Opus
to Releasable Single Length.

All Interesting Edits For Fans and Collectors :)

Editing Singles for Radio Airplay Must Have Been Sign Of The Times in 1970's as Beatles Released Hey Jude in 1968 (Over 6 Minutes) and Scored Huge #1 :o

IMO Prefer Full Length Versions , Especially Close To You Teaser Ending and I Need To Be Tracks , Although Richard's Brilliant Edit For Occupants Captures Essence of the Song :)

Peter...To Check Out Edits More Frequently......
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
Not really an edit, but "I Kept On Loving You" on the flip of the "Close To You" 45 appears with a clean opening -- not segued from "Mr. Guder" as it appears on the album and every CD it's ever been on.

I wasn't aware of the edit on "Mr. Guder". I'll have to go check that out! Thanks Chris.

Harry
...learning new things every day, online...

[back after checking out the single] It sure is an edit! Fades out in the middle of the ba-da-ba-da-ba's.

Another interesting point about that particular 45 is the dreaded HAECO-CSG processing, making both of the tracks that much more unique. The Close To You album didn't have that processing and the single does, thus giving "Mr. Guder" a different sound compared to the LP.

And, I've finally found an A&M example of a track that was originally released with the CSG processing ("Merry Christmas, Darling"), that ultimately came out on a CD without the processing (From The Top, Essentials). Up until this discovery, every original CSG-processed track stayed that way in it's CD life leading me to believe that the master may have been done that way. And it's still possible...Richard may have found a way to 'un-do' the original processing with his remixing and remastering.

Harry
...with new discoveries, online...
 

Rudy

ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
Staff member
Site Admin
Harry said:
Up until this discovery, every original CSG-processed track stayed that way in it's CD life leading me to believe that the master may have been done that way. And it's still possible...Richard may have found a way to 'un-do' the original processing with his remixing and remastering.
If he went back to multitrack, he would then sidestep the processing. The masters for CSG were only intended for LP usage, but there is no telling who might have grabbed whatever tape they could find to put onto a CD or make a compilation. I'd hate to think that anyone mixed down the multitracks right to two-track, running it through the processor as part of the process.
 

Jeff

Well-Known Member
Fascinating! Good find Chris! I had never played the flip-side of MERRY CHRISTMAS DARLING and I was surprised to find the GUDER edit. That's funny because I haven't had that single "out" in years and that's a shame because it has a nice picture sleeve w/a pic of K&R...

Best of Spring from The Pacific N.W.,

Jeff
 

Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Morning Opens Quietly...
Thread Starter
I thought that the Mr Guder single sounded somewhat different also from the original song on the Lp and not just the ending.

Your right that it says right on the label, " This Recording Employs the HAECO CSG System and can be played either Stereo or Monaurally.

So would that mean for us not using this CSG system that we are listening to this Mono-ally or Stereo?
 

W.B.

Member
Harry said:
Not really an edit, but "I Kept On Loving You" on the flip of the "Close To You" 45 appears with a clean opening -- not segued from "Mr. Guder" as it appears on the album and every CD it's ever been on.
Right! "I Kept On Loving You" was listed as 2:20 on that 45, as opposed to 2:13 on the LP. I wonder, insofar as the LP, what happened to those final seven seconds. . . . :wink: :wink:
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
Chris-An Ordinary Fool said:
I thought that the Mr Guder single sounded somewhat different also from the original song on the Lp and not just the ending.

Your right that it says right on the label, " This Recording Employs the HAECO CSG System and can be played either Stereo or Monaurally.

So would that mean for us not using this CSG system that we are listening to this Mono-ally or Stereo?
The CSG system has to do with the way stereo recordings will fold down INTO mono, particularly for radio purposes. Without getting too technical, what used to happen is a stereo track would be reduced at a radio station to mono, but their tape heads wouldn't be in perfect alignment, resulting in any common audio (like the vocal track) to "phase" against itself. This would give the vocal track a less-than-perfect sound, with high frequencies like 'S' sounds becoming muffled. The more out of phase, the worse it sounded.

CSG was designed to compensate for that phenomenon. It threw portions of the recording far enough out of phase to begin with that there would be none of that cancellation effect. The idea was that with this system in place on stereo recordings, special mono mixes wouldn't be necessary for radio, thus the phrases "compatible", and "playable either stereophonically or monophonically".

If you listen to a CSG recording through headphones, you'll hear that the lead vocal track, which sounds centered in your head on a standard stereo recording, sounds indistinct, like it's coming from everywhere.

The best (worst?) example of this processing in the Carpenters' canon is the original 45 of "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town."

Harry
NP: CLASSICS VOLUME 1 - Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass
 

CraigGA

Well-Known Member
One of the things I enjoy of Mr. Guider are the choral voices that are overdubbed by Karen and Richard. On the Close to You version, the left side of the stereo track plays the lower voices, while the right plays the upper voices, and together you can hear Karen singing in disonance and harmony with herself depending on which of the chord the listener focuses on. Once I heard this, it opened this song onto another musical plane for me. This is especially heard in the opening 'aaahs'.

I never listened to the single and no longer have a turntable, so I do not know if this transfer takes place there.

Craig
 
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