Music Volume 3 - Herb Alpert Reimagines the Tijuana Brass

Discussion in 'The Beat of The Brass: Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass' started by Captaindave, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    That brickwalling is a very sad development over the past couple of decades. Sad to hear it was used on this CD, although I have seen far, far worse. Brickwalling sucks the life out of the music.

    That is one reason it is sometimes better to buy vinyl when it is available--the mastering is sometimes better than the digital versions, meaning the bass isn't slammed and the digital brickwalling to make it louder are both tamed down or even absent. (Other times, no...the vinyl is just cut from the poor digital mastering.)

    It's just the way it is these days...the loudness wars will never go away.
     
  2. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    Put me in the camp that thinks the "ideal" versions of all things TJB will always be the originals, but I still like this new music. I think I like it better than Rewhipped for the simple reason that the songs aren't tinkered with quite as much. In most cases, the tempo and melody of the songs survives pretty much intact on this album. Part of this is, of course, because they used the original recordings as samples in some places.

    That said, I do find myself wishing this was more of a 'band' effort. This album is basically a sequel to Music Vol. 1, with the difference being they're all TJB tunes, so they're instantly familiar. For that reason, I like this one a lot better than Music Vol. 1.
     
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  3. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    After looking at the liner notes, I see where the trombone parts are freshly recorded. I'm glad the original arrangement of the solo appears here again though... it sounds great!
     
  4. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    From the mid 70s onward, a remix would typically bump up the beat and the percussion parts, and boost or cut a few other minor things, in order to make the track dance-floor friendly, and often some extra percussion would be added. But, that was the extent of it. It was merely some minor additions to what was already there.

    Starting in maybe the late 80s or early 90s, remixes in general started to become quite radical, much different from the originals, where the remixers felt they needed to add their own drum machines, synths and extra parts to the existing track, with usually no input from the original artist or composer. Once "remixers" started messing with the speed, the melody, the bassline and even the keys of the tunes, that ruined it for me. I know very few that work well as opposed to multitudes that I find completely unlistenable.

    That is probably why some are finding Music Vol. 3 more palatable than Rewhipped. With this new one, there is still a lot that is recognizable from the originals. But on Rewhipped, as one example, "Love Potion No. 9" was a trainwreck with the entire tune pretty much unrecognizable from the original.

    But hey, if Herb had fun making this new one? It's all good! :wink:
     
  5. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    The album gets better with each repeat play!
     
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  6. Captaindave

    Captaindave Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I continue to listen...I continue to like it quite a bit. In my opinion, this is a very musical album. And I agree with the comments above about this album in relation to ReWhipped. My ears tell me this is something different. For one thing, it's far more "musical" and tasteful. This sounds to me much more like the work of musicians who are striving to maintain the integrity of the songs. The "essentials" of the original songs are pretty much still there. The melodies and chord progressions remain dominant.

    There may be some remix aspects here and there, but to my ears, those are pleasant and musical. I actually enjoy the blend of both the old and new on this album. The original songs are intact and not lost - they may be embellished and re-worked some here and there, but all is done very musically and tastefully.

    After all, this isn't a Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass album - the originals were Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass albums...it's Herb Alpert creating new and updated versions of some Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass songs from those original albums 50 or more years after they were originally recorded.

    Even though I will always be a committed fan of the originals, I like this album.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  7. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Exactly! :thumbsup:
     
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  8. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    I Agree and My Copy finally arrived in the mail This morning and I found myself listening repeatedly for a few times especially to Green peppers ( a cherished childhood favorite that finally gets a longer version and much improved arrangement) and El presidente Retains the essence while being updated ( another standout from my youth) this is definitely NOT another "Rewhipped" by any means THIS IS BETTER although I still enjoy Rewhipped for what it is This one surpasses it . Well worth the wait and it's now been ripped into my laptop Megamix where it will be in regular rotation here at home
     
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  9. toeknee4bz

    toeknee4bz Well-Known Member

    Well, I finally received my copy of Volume 3, and I've listened to it a couple of times already. Overall a good album. Not a 'great' album, but good. Several tracks sound like remixes more so than actual new performances. Fresh takes on all of the tunes for the most part. And overall I agree that it's a much better album than RE-WHIPPED was some 12 years ago.

    But the one clunker, IMHO, is "Spanish Flea/Rise" (which should've been titled "Spanish Funk" with a subtitle of "Spanish Flea"). It was downright AWFUL. And aside from the rhythm track of "Rise", I don't remember hearing the slightest hint of the melody. Just "Spanish Flea", which doesn't blend with the funk rhythm at all. Just my two cents'.
     
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  10. abstract_fan

    abstract_fan Active Member

     
  11. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    I liked "Spanish Flea/Rise" better than you did, but I agree there doesn't seem to be a trace of "Rise" in it, outside of the rhythm pattern. There's a spot near the beginning where you hear a marimba sound that recalls the original "Rise" intro, but I kept waiting for the familiar "da-da-da-da daaaaaaaaaa" melody to happen and next thing you know, the song was fading out.

    If I had to pick an early favorite I would probably vote for "Green Peppers" or "Wade in the Water" at this point. Least favorite is easy... "America." It's one of my favorite early TJB songs and it's probably going to be near the top of my least favorite latter-day Herb songs. If he'd wanted to end on a somber note, I wish he'd redone "Jerusalem" or something.
     
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  12. DAN BOLTON

    DAN BOLTON Active Member

     
  13. Captaindave

    Captaindave Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    To me, each of these new tracks is interesting and unique. I recall having that same reaction to the original Tijuana Brass albums - that each track was a unique and worthy song and none were included or intended as "filler".

    I'm sure that an album like this has to have some kind of limit as to the number of tracks, but I am a little surprised that Tijuana Taxi wasn't included.

    After several plays, my ears tell me this is a very musical and "listen-able" album. I like it. I like the sound, arrangements, and choice of songs. Right up there in that regard with the original Tijuana Brass records.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  14. DAN BOLTON

    DAN BOLTON Active Member

    Lemmee see if I got this reply thing right...okay, here goes my two cents on the Rise/Spanish Flea controversy.

    I think the haters are missing a very important point, one that I didn't even consider until I heard the two songs combined. The melodies of both songs are rather similar, especially the first several notes of each song. The phrasing of the melodies is also rather similar. Rise had a somewhat slower tempo than Spanish Flea, but both had a rather audacious feel to them, IMO. The songs are a lot more similar than you're giving them credit for. In fact, one might make the case that Rise is really a street version of Spanish Flea. Listen especially to the long version of Rise, because it seems to capture the mood I'm talking about a little better than the shorter single mix.

    Also, remember that the goal of the alum is to re-imagine the melodies of TJB songs, and Rise wasn't one of them, so any trace of the melody being used with Spanish Flea would violate the premise of the concept.

    Listen again, and it'll grow on ya, I promise...



    Dan
     
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  15. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    After thinking this over, I have another theory. If you listen to a lot of Badazz compositions, it seems like the rhythm (or "groove") is just as important as the melody in his composing style. So, you could say that they used the "groove" from "Rise," but did not use the melody. If you listen with that mindset, there's a lot more "Rise" in there than meets the ear at first hearing.
     
  16. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Randy and I both grew up with similar musical listening tastes during the same era, so I totally get the "groove" part of it. I also find similarities between something like the RandyAndy album and, for example, the first couple of Was (Not Was) albums--both are actually stylistically close, borrowing a lot from what was happening in music at the time as well as from the decade prior. It's only natural that his touch on Herb's work is more aligned in that sense. :thumbsup:
     
  17. toeknee4bz

    toeknee4bz Well-Known Member

    I was thinking the same thing. Tijuana Taxi was a TJB staple back in the day. Definitely missing that one.
     
  18. AM Matt

    AM Matt Well-Known Member

    Finally heard "Music Volume 3 Reimagines The Tijuana Brass" which runs 35:57 in CD total length!! The song "Work Song" should have used the late Jack Webb's "Mark VII Limited" logo hammer sound (1967 - 1971 & 1973 - 1979) than the woodblock but that's okay!! The song "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" is a great remake but I can't tell if I liked the original or the recut. The songs "Green Peppers", "Whipped Cream" & "A Taste Of Honey" are better than the 2006 "Rewhipped" versions!! Finally, the song "Spanish Harlem" is way better than the 1963 version. A great CD though!! Matt Clark Sanford, MI
     
  19. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    I can understand the number of songs that just had to be left off. First off, there's the space issue. While a CD can hold tons more stuff, an LP really can't without suffering.

    Next we have to consider whether or not the "muse" that speaks to Herb had anything to add to some of the other big TjB songs. Big songs that didn't get included:

    Mexican Shuffle
    Tijuana Taxi
    What Now My Love (recently done on I FEEL YOU)
    Flamingo (recently done on MUSIC VOLUME 1)
    Casino Royale
    A Banda

    I really like the "Spanish Flea" overlay of the "Rise" groove. I think it works well. In fact, other than "America" (like Mike), I pretty much like this whole album a lot. I just find that last track a little weak.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  20. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    That'd be great, but, there is no vinyl release on this one. :D

    The Christmas Wish
    was spread across two records--one green, one red. :wink:

    Still, albums with 10 or 12 songs I feel are just about right. It's kind of a throwback to when albums came regularly, once per year (or in the sixties, two or even three times per year).
     
  21. Steve Sidoruk

    Steve Sidoruk Founder, A&M Fan Net Moderator

    Yes, I posted within the last week that vinyl for this album is due about the 1st week of December.
     
  22. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Didn't think we'd ever see one--I know they are not very fond of vinyl...

    The lack of preorders makes me think otherwise, though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  23. I also have a hard time connecting the 2 songs. I do like your re-title of Spanish Funk
     
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  24. Captaindave

    Captaindave Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I actually think the Spanish Flea/Rise combination works OK.

    In my opinion, Spanish Flea and Rise have little in common as songs, especially considering the points in time that each comes from, and was surprised when I first saw that Rise had anything to do with this album being 1960s era TJB.

    However, if I wasn't informed in any way that Rise was used in the rhythm or accompaniment background, I probably wouldn't have given it any thought.

    That is probably because I have always been listening primarily to the trumpet and brass playing, and the melodies, being a trumpet player myself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  25. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    It's definitely just the "Rise" bass line that makes an appearance. It's different, but not really intrusive.

    "Spanish Flea" had a mash-up with "One Note Samba" about 52 years ago... :wink:
     

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