New Carpenters Project For Richard - Ideas?

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motownboy

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So as it seems that the RPO album is looking to possibly be the last Carpenters project, what could Richard do as a new one while there is still time? I have my own ideas, but what do you think might be possible as a new project for Richard regarding the Carpenters' legacy?
 
As I've said before and will always continue to say, he needs to create the "Karen, Unadulterated" album...he missed a gigantic opportunity to do exactly this on the RPO album. Of all the changes, additions, deletions, enhancements, tweaks and improvements that he made to the songs on this project (and it is a wonderful album!) he failed to do the most important thing, something that has been needed all along since the very beginning: remove from any and every recording they ever made any trace of Karen over-singing (double-tracking, overdubbing) her own voice on the lead vocals.

However that sound could be described when she double-tracks her own lead vocal on a song it can't be described as her real, natural, pure - unadulterated - personal voice. It can't be described as "the voice we all know so well and love so very much", the "voice of an angel". No one sings along with themselves in real life. This recording technique results in an unreal mechanical or electronic sound that is a distortion her real, actual, beautiful tonal quality. This was always an indirect insult to her - and it denied to all who claim to love her voice the chance to hear it at every possible chance and in all of it's gorgeousness. There is no rational reason why that voice should have ever been "messed with" in any way, including this double-tracking or with reverb or echoing or other electronic studio capabilities.

So, now he needs to take every song where this occurred and strip away all of the 2nd or 3rd Karens (however many there might have been) on the lead vocals - then perhaps lighten the layered background vocals and the orchestration a tad for an overall cleaner, more natural, concert-like sound. If there are sections of some songs where a "duet sound" would be more effective - and there aren't many - then hire a real singer to provide that, someone with a voice that contrasts with Karen's but still harmonizes well.

Then, he needs to release this as the "Karen, Unadulterated" album.
 
So as it seems that the RPO album is looking to possibly be the last Carpenters project, what could Richard do as a new one while there is still time? I have my own ideas, but what do you think might be possible as a new project for Richard regarding the Carpenters' legacy?

I'd be happy just to hear his solo Christmas album he's spent the last decade and a half working on.
 
I agree with you Geographer. Every year I hope to have the opportunity to have this music to enhance the holidays, only to be disappointed each year. I love "Christmas Turned Blue" and "December Morn". I am sure that locked away in some vault there are more buried classics waiting to unwrapped. Thankfully, we do have what has been released.
 
I agree with you Geographer. Every year I hope to have the opportunity to have this music to enhance the holidays, only to be disappointed each year. I love "Christmas Turned Blue" and "December Morn". I am sure that locked away in some vault there are more buried classics waiting to unwrapped. Thankfully, we do have what has been released.

And Petula Clark is a guest vocalist, which makes it sound more like it was going to be an actual "release" rather than "demos" to sell new Christmas songs he'd written as Richard has more recently claimed. But I think he'd get a lot further selling his songs by releasing them to the general public than trying to sell them as demos. I was disappointed to hear this of late.

I know I am probably in the minority from reading a lot of comments her at AMCORNER, but I actually really enjoy Richard's solo work and am always wanting to hear more of it.
 
I remember reading on David Grant’s page (btw, how’s he doing?) of Seiko’s album that Richard’s album had a tentative release date of late 2002. I forget the whole timeline of what happened with all that business but did he ever give any indication of why he didn’t release it eighteen years ago? Richard can do what he wants, but it’s going on two decades now, did he ever finish it?
 
Just vocals but mostly the harmonies acapella. I just love those harmonies and want to deconstruct them, especially the ones mixed out a bit.
 
I posted this on another post, but I think what I would be interested in and what might’ve been commercially successful for Richard would be a piano jazz album, jazz trio guest vocalist guess instrumentalist but I’m wondering if maybe his piano chops are not quite the level they would’ve been if he had done this in the late 90s early 2000s
 
Based solely on what we've heard, the only thing I know of that might still be in the offing from Richard would be a 2nd RPO album endeavor, which he has indicated he'd likely do if sales warranted it.

I haven't heard anything about sales for the RPO album or whether that's even being discussed. Aside from this, I don't believe anything else (sadly, but understandably) will be forthcoming. But maybe we'll all be in for a big surprise, who knows? Creative people can be unpredictable :)
 
I posted this on another post, but I think what I would be interested in and what might’ve been commercially successful for Richard would be a piano jazz album, jazz trio guest vocalist guess instrumentalist but I’m wondering if maybe his piano chops are not quite the level they would’ve been if he had done this in the late 90s early 2000s
Hopefully it would be better than his dark, moody 1997 album! Maybe something closer to Richard Clayderman’s 1997 Carpenters albums.
 
I'd love to hear this particular song if anything ever came of it...jump to 7:54


It sounds like Richard is playing What A Wonderful World at the close of this. How appropriate. Bittersweet to say the least. It's sometimes hard to watch these documentaries with Richard in them, because of the intense sadness of it all from his unique perspective.
 
As I've said before and will always continue to say, he needs to create the "Karen, Unadulterated" album...he missed a gigantic opportunity to do exactly this on the RPO album. Of all the changes, additions, deletions, enhancements, tweaks and improvements that he made to the songs on this project (and it is a wonderful album!) he failed to do the most important thing, something that has been needed all along since the very beginning: remove from any and every recording they ever made any trace of Karen over-singing (double-tracking, overdubbing) her own voice on the lead vocals.

However that sound could be described when she double-tracks her own lead vocal on a song it can't be described as her real, natural, pure - unadulterated - personal voice. It can't be described as "the voice we all know so well and love so very much", the "voice of an angel". No one sings along with themselves in real life. This recording technique results in an unreal mechanical or electronic sound that is a distortion her real, actual, beautiful tonal quality. This was always an indirect insult to her - and it denied to all who claim to love her voice the chance to hear it at every possible chance and in all of it's gorgeousness. There is no rational reason why that voice should have ever been "messed with" in any way, including this double-tracking or with reverb or echoing or other electronic studio capabilities.

So, now he needs to take every song where this occurred and strip away all of the 2nd or 3rd Karens (however many there might have been) on the lead vocals - then perhaps lighten the layered background vocals and the orchestration a tad for an overall cleaner, more natural, concert-like sound. If there are sections of some songs where a "duet sound" would be more effective - and there aren't many - then hire a real singer to provide that, someone with a voice that contrasts with Karen's but still harmonizes well.

Then, he needs to release this as the "Karen, Unadulterated" album.

Well you have to remember — these recordings were constructed like puzzle pieces and work accordingly.

Here's a reworking of the bridge on "We've Only Just Begun" with Karen taken down to a single lead. She holds back some because she knew she would be adding the double.

A change in dynamics:

 
Apart from more Christmas music (at which Richard excels), I still think a 'Complete Recordings' diary would be fascinating. A detailed account of dates, takes etc, with photographs.
 
Well you have to remember — these recordings were constructed like puzzle pieces and work accordingly.

Here's a reworking of the bridge on "We've Only Just Begun" with Karen taken down to a single lead. She holds back some because she knew she would be adding the double.

A change in dynamics:


Thanks much Chris! This sounds great! It's what I've wanted to hear for many years. It's what I've always imagined. And yes, I understand about the "puzzle pieces", but they didn't really have to make them so numerous or complex.

And yes, I will say without reservation that it does sound better than the doubled lead - much better. And it does so because it's her, just her, and only her - her real, wonderful, natural, unadulterated voice! And if she was in fact holding back in anticipation of doubling the lead later, then think of how much stronger and resonant this sample would have been if she wasn't "holding back".

There is not now, never was and never would be any possible, rational musical reason to ever F*** with that voice in any way - doing so is tantamount to committing a "musical sacrilege" (ok, that's a tad melodramatic, but you must get my passion here...).

But, I blame them both - Richard for pushing that artificial recording technique so forcefully and for so long, and Karen for meekly going along with his program and not protesting vehemently and refusing to cooperate - after all, she possessed the power to make or break them...she could have prevented this, and why wouldn't she - it was her voice...
 
They both were coming from a choral background at Cal State Long Beach. It obviously entrenched their lives with the choral sound they used in the studio. I can’t imagine the recordings without that amazing sound. I don’t think I would be as obsessed as I’ve been since high school if so. I sang in every choir possible from grammar school to high school. It’s what helped me fall in love with the Carpenters sound. Anything different would have been just okay, not extraordinary. Richard’s vision was just fine by his little sister who admired, and respected what he created for her, them. I’m sure she had plenty of input when recording if there was something that didn’t work just right for her. There just was never enough for me. We lost the finest singer of our generation, and the decades since, way to soon. That’s what keeps pulling in all these younger fans today. I’m in awe, and grateful forever.
 
... And I'm sorry John, that you have to endure that which you seem to truly dislike.
Well, thanks Harry - I do appreciate your commiseration with my tribulations!

I do dislike this aspect of their music, but only because I can "hear" in my mind how it could have been even better...and I do endure it because it's Karen, which means everything - I'll gladly "suffer thru" the doubled chorus of any song she ever sung to get to her "bare naked" voice on the verses.

The joy of listening to her "trumps" all. After all, we're talking here about one of the most beautiful sounds in the freakin' universe!
 
And yes, I will say without reservation that it does sound better than the doubled lead - much better.
Well no, it sounds like an unfinished recording.

The technique of double tracking a lead vocal harks back to the very earliest days of "hi-fi." The technique can add emphasis, drama or even pathos to a vocal.
I would guess about 99.9% of Carpenters fans love the sound of the multi-tracked layers of R&K's voices, as opposed to a bunch of other background singers (or no background singers). It's the basic building block of the "Carpenters sound" that Richard worked on so diligently. Obviously none of us were there in the studio, so we can't know whether Karen ever thought she was being "too overdubbed," but we do know that they did get into arguments (John Bettis talked about "epic fights" in his Download interview). But, at the end of the day they both happily signed-off on the records they produced... especially the ones where Karen is listed as a coproducer.

So I think it's safe to say that if you were to suggest to Richard to do away with all of the multitracks in an effort to showcase Karen's pure unadulterated voice, he might have a hard time deciding whether to laugh at the suggestion or just haul off and slug you.
 
Well no, it sounds like an unfinished recording.

The technique of double tracking a lead vocal harks back to the very earliest days of "hi-fi." The technique can add emphasis, drama or even pathos to a vocal.
I would guess about 99.9% of Carpenters fans love the sound of the multi-tracked layers of R&K's voices, as opposed to a bunch of other background singers (or no background singers). It's the basic building block of the "Carpenters sound" that Richard worked on so diligently. Obviously none of us were there in the studio, so we can't know whether Karen ever thought she was being "too overdubbed," but we do know that they did get into arguments (John Bettis talked about "epic fights" in his Download interview). But, at the end of the day they both happily signed-off on the records they produced... especially the ones where Karen is listed as a coproducer.

So I think it's safe to say that if you were to suggest to Richard to do away with all of the multitracks in an effort to showcase Karen's pure unadulterated voice, he might have a hard time deciding whether to laugh at the suggestion or just haul off and slug you.
Well said Mike!

And one more thing to add here. Contrary to more recent, popular belief, Karen loved this stuff! No one had to twist her arm. She was very capable of making her own decisions and speaking her mind, I can assure you.

Those two were truly born to work together.
 
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