Other Female Singers

While playing (okay learning) “I Just Fall in Love” from my Carpenters Anthology Songbook, I Googled the song in Youtube and had forgotten that Anne Murray made it such a big hit in 1979. Unlike the Carpenters, she recorded it as a single (as the Carpenters didn’t want to cut it down to a single length). Not surprising that Anne Murray grabbed it two years later in ’79 as, of course, she too is a warm “dark-roast” Alto. I really like that singing range.
 
While playing (okay learning) “I Just Fall in Love” from my Carpenters Anthology Songbook, I Googled the song in Youtube and had forgotten that Anne Murray made it such a big hit in 1979. Unlike the Carpenters, she recorded it as a single (as the Carpenters didn’t want to cut it down to a single length). Not surprising that Anne Murray grabbed it two years later in ’79 as, of course, she too is a warm “dark-roast” Alto. I really like that singing range.

I honestly don't think it would have been a hit if Carpenters released it as a single. They were cold as a commercial act by this point. Further, Richard's arrangement is way too overproduced and it goes straight into the elevator. Karen sounds lovely on it but she can't overcome that arrangement. Producer Jim Ed Norman kept Anne's far simpler by letting the song breathe (less really is more) and hers became a hit on both Pop and Country charts.

Ed
 
I agree with Ed - it's a beautiful song and Karen sings it as only she can do, but her vocal is buried under too many layers of too loud orchestration in the arrangement - it is, in effect, a "power ballad" in the style of "Goodbye to Love" or "Where Do I Go From Here". Maybe the problem is in the mix, where amplifying the vocal & subduing the orchestration might help somewhat??? The arrangement used in the Anne Murray recording is near perfect (as is her wonderful take on the vocal)...

Here's a shortened version that was recently uploaded to YT by Billy Rees with the Karen vocal and a solo piano accompaniment - this is fascinating as an alternate, striped-down take with Karen really standing out (as she always should have) - there is no credit for the pianist here and I don't know if it was Billy himself..how freakin' lovely is this!

 
While playing (okay learning) “I Just Fall in Love” from my Carpenters Anthology Songbook...
I have that same Songbook and have it opened to RAINY DAYS AND MONDAYS, but haven't yet started to attack that one - the rhythmic patterns of the melody lines look surprisingly difficult or tricky (as usual, Karen makes them sound so simple and easy with her vocal)...however, I've been putting this off mostly because I've been trying to memorize several of the classic Standards that Karen & Ella did in their duet medley: MY FUNNY VALENTINE, I'LL BE SEEING YOU and AS TIME GOES BY...3 of my all time favorites...
 
I have very, very mixed feelings about the above video. While I know it's technically possible these days for the average joe to isolate vocals or any parts of songs, I wonder if it's really a good idea. It won't be too much longer before AI will allow the making of a Karen Carpenter robot that looks and sounds just like her. I'm not sure I like that idea as it reduces the real thing to something more trivial.

This video has only the Carpenters logo for its visual, yet this really isn't "Carpenters". It's someone who's eliminated Richard, his playing and his arrangement, wiping him from existence on this track. And by doing this, it allows me to really hear Karen's post-head-cold symptoms being exhibited much more clearly. Richard did a great job covering that up on the RPO album.

And, if this was designed as a "what-if" to somehow have gotten this record to chart just by shortening it and stripping out everything, I fear it would have missed the mark in those heavy-beat disco days of pop music.

But, if it's simply a pianist who wonders what it would have been like to accompany Karen on this or any other track, well, it's an interesting exercise, I suppose.
 
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I have very, very mixed feelings about the above video. While I know it's technically possible these days for the average joe to isolate vocals or any parts of songs, I wonder if it's really a good idea. It won't be too much longer before AI will allow the making of a Karen Carpenter robot that looks and sounds just like her. I'm not sure I like that idea as it reduces the real thing to something more trivial.

This video has only the Carpenters logo for its visual, yet this really isn't "Carpenters". It's someone who's eliminated Richard, his playing and his arrangement, wiping him from existence on this track. And by doing this, it allows me to really hear Karen's post-head-cold symptoms being exhibited much more clearly. Richard did a great job covering that up on the RPO album.

And, if this was designed as a "what-if" to somehow have gotten this record to chart just by shortening it and stripping out everything, I fear it would have missed the mark in those heavy-beat disco days of pop music.

But, if it's simply a pianist who wonders what it would have been like to accompany Karen on this or any other track, well, it's an interesting exercise, I suppose.
No, I absolutely would never want to see or hear a Karen Carpenter robot - something to definitely boycott (or sabotage)...

No, this isn't "Carpenters" and yes, Richard has been eliminated, but only temporarily as part of an "experiment" or demonstration of an alternative accompaniment...

I had forgotten about Karen's head cold at this point, and although she still sounds great it begs the question of why she recorded this at all under those conditions instead of waiting until they had cleared up...

And I don't think anyone would have advised releasing this version as a single back in the 70s...maybe in a perfect world...

Finally, I think that's only what this is - a pianist wondering what it would have been like to accompany Karen on this beautiful song (or any other song for that matter) - I know I've had those wild fantasies, but never in my most irrational dreams would that have ever happened!
 
I had forgotten about Karen's head cold at this point, and although she still sounds great it begs the question of why she recorded this at all under those conditions instead of waiting until they had cleared up...

And I don't think anyone would have advised releasing this version as a single back in the 70s...maybe in a perfect world..
WIFIL is an out-take that was recorded on a rhythm track 8-11-1978. Karen’s head cold at the time of the recording is likely the reason, as @close2u has mentioned on many of the Lovelines out-takes, the song had disparate origin and ended up on the floor. It was never re-recorded and was not released until Lovelines after Karen’s death. Richard has said that Karen’s work leads would not have been acceptable to Karen. He always felt they were good enough for release in 1989. Note: WIFIL was again recorded on tracks in March 1980 for the MMM TV Special.
 
Well, Karen’s voice, singing this, was etched into my memory, as all of Karen’s recordings….. so much so that I forget that other singers sang them. It was fascinating to hear Anne Murray sing it with that recognizable and distinctive contralto range. Though they are both contraltos, Karen, for sure, has a sweeter timbre to her voice. Anne’s is wonderful too, of course, but a bit more husky. Very different. And, if I’m correct, Karen has a greater upper range (a total of three octaves, I understand)

John, I really like the fact that the Anthology book has the songs in the original keys of the Carpenters. (which makes them just sound right) “I Just Fall in Love Again” is so beautiful; just another example that the Carpenters were attracted to exquisite ballads like a moth is to my suits.
 
I love the simplicity of the arrangement on the Anne Murray version of 'I Just Fall In Love Again'. I love her warm, direct, conversation-style vocal. In contrast, I find Karen's performance too nasal. I do like Richard's 1977 sound, though - that heavy orchestra with rock guitar and drums mixed with full scale choir.
 
...Richard has said that Karen’s work leads would not have been acceptable to Karen...
I read that somewhere, and don't know if he meant all of her work leads...but her standards for herself were so stratospheric that even some finished, polished songs didn't meet them after awhile ("Ticket to Ride" and "Merry Christmas, Darling" for example) - it's really hard to believe that work leads of superior quality like she laid down on songs like "Rainbow Connection" and "Leave Yesterday Behind" wouldn't have been acceptable to her - I've always been convinced that she really didn't know how to do a so-called "work lead" and that it was all a perfect take for us (if not quite for her).
 
I agree with Ed - it's a beautiful song and Karen sings it as only she can do, but her vocal is buried under too many layers of too loud orchestration in the arrangement - it is, in effect, a "power ballad" in the style of "Goodbye to Love" or "Where Do I Go From Here". Maybe the problem is in the mix, where amplifying the vocal & subduing the orchestration might help somewhat??? The arrangement used in the Anne Murray recording is near perfect (as is her wonderful take on the vocal)...

Here's a shortened version that was recently uploaded to YT by Billy Rees with the Karen vocal and a solo piano accompaniment - this is fascinating as an alternate, striped-down take with Karen really standing out (as she always should have) - there is no credit for the pianist here and I don't know if it was Billy himself..how freakin' lovely is this!



There are soooo many Carpenters' tunes that would benefit from serious stripping back. Richard went too far so often that it really became his stock and trade. Karen never needed the often over-the-top production and arrangement methods Richard employed. This is very much proof of that. I have no problem at all hearing a bit of her humanity. She still sounds absolutely sublime.

There really is such a thing as taste and while Richard was perfectly capable of employing it, he often chose not to. With the original version of this, he went way overboard and threw taste completely out the window. Taste is what makes Anne Murray's version work. A good producer knows when to say when. Richard rarely did, IMO.

Ed
 
There are soooo many Carpenters' tunes that would benefit from serious stripping back. Richard went too far so often that it really became his stock and trade. Karen never needed the often over-the-top production and arrangement methods Richard employed. This is very much proof of that. I have no problem at all hearing a bit of her humanity. She still sounds absolutely sublime.

There really is such a thing as taste and while Richard was perfectly capable of employing it, he often chose not to. With the original version of this, he went way overboard and threw taste completely out the window. Taste is what makes Anne Murray's version work. A good producer knows when to say when. Richard rarely did, IMO.

Ed
Ouch, Ed! :winkgrin:

I think that starting with Passage, Richard lost his way a bit. But in the years prior, I found his work to be excellent overall.
 
No, I absolutely would never want to see or hear a Karen Carpenter robot - something to definitely boycott (or sabotage)...

I would be receptive to one if it were done for something along the lines similar to what the Disney parks have with their animatronic Hall of Presidents. Perhaps someone (maybe Disney even) will be creative enough to construct a hall of great vocalists in music history.
 
Ouch, Ed! :winkgrin:

I think that starting with Passage, Richard lost his way a bit. But in the years prior, I found his work to be excellent overall.

Please don't think I find Richard superfluous or anything. It might have read like that but that's not what I meant...LOL! I just meant that most of their output could have benefitted from a little restraint arranging-wise. Not every tune needed a sweeping orchestration. It'll never happen but I'd love to hear an album like "Carpenters Unstringed." Just strip it back and let me hear Karen and the rhythm arrangements. She was always the calling card for the group and it's center attraction.

Ed
 
There are soooo many Carpenters' tunes that would benefit from serious stripping back... Karen never needed the often over-the-top production and arrangement methods Richard employed....

Ed
Yes, there are, and no, she didn't - I only objected when (as in this case) the arrangement became so heavy and ponderous that her vocal then was caught up in that and became just a part of the overall fabric of the recording, rather than standing out and being "spotlighted" as it always should have been (and Richard did much in the RPO album to correct this serious ) - but my objection here pales in comparison to the animus I have towards that recording technique that Richard so ardently (and frustratingly) favored wherein her gorgeous voice was distorted beyond all possible recognition by her own over-singing of her lead vocals...but don't get me started...
 
... It'll never happen but I'd love to hear an album like "Carpenters Unstringed." Just strip it back and let me hear Karen and the rhythm arrangements. She was always the calling card for the group and it's center attraction.

Ed
Yes, that! And while you're at it please remove the 2nd Karen where and when she intrudes - she has nothing good to offer at all and just gets in the way of the real deal...Richard, are you listening?
 
I have very, very mixed feelings about the above video. While I know it's technically possible these days for the average joe to isolate vocals or any parts of songs, I wonder if it's really a good idea. It won't be too much longer before AI will allow the making of a Karen Carpenter robot that looks and sounds just like her. I'm not sure I like that idea as it reduces the real thing to something more trivial.

This video has only the Carpenters logo for its visual, yet this really isn't "Carpenters". It's someone who's eliminated Richard, his playing and his arrangement, wiping him from existence on this track. And by doing this, it allows me to really hear Karen's post-head-cold symptoms being exhibited much more clearly. Richard did a great job covering that up on the RPO album.

And, if this was designed as a "what-if" to somehow have gotten this record to chart just by shortening it and stripping out everything, I fear it would have missed the mark in those heavy-beat disco days of pop music.
Not only that, but have we so quickly forgotten the string-heavy arrangements of ballads by other top-selling pop artists of the time, like Barry Manilow? I agree with you that the mix on the RPO album was much better than the original album mix. Karen's voice really shines, as it should, on that newer version.
But, if it's simply a pianist who wonders what it would have been like to accompany Karen on this or any other track, well, it's an interesting exercise, I suppose.
That's my take on it.
 
Maybe the only real competition Karen had for "most beautiful voice" was Marilyn McCoo of the Fifth Dimension
@JohnFB, Marily McCoo is an interesting singer to compare to Karen. Great song choice, too. Marilyn also has a sublime intonation. Her backup vocals distinctly pop out like Karen’s did. Marilyn McCoo’s warm alto, 4 ½ octave is one of the greats. Two of my favorite recordings of hers are Always on My Mind and recently The Long and Winding Road (with Billy Davis Jr). To top off all of that talent, from what I have heard she is also humble woman with a ton of humanity. The variance between everyone else and Karen Carpenter IMO is the delivery. Karen’s flawless phrasing separates her from the rest of the greats. Karen’s voice has a distraction that facilitates a calm resonance. She hit those notes with certitude. That was her magic. That is what we continue to relish in.
 
... Marilyn McCoo’s warm alto, 4 ½ octave is one of the greats...
I heartily and fully agree, of course, but I do wonder a little at the 4 1/2 octaves...Karen's 3 octaves ranged from about D3 or E3 (just below Middle C (C4)) to roughly B6 or C6 ...assuming Marilyn could sing as low as Karen (doubtful) and her lowest note was that same D3 say, then her upper or highest note would be a G7 or so...(4 1/2 octaves) - that's 1 1/2 octaves higher than Karen, and beyond the standard range of most operatic sopranos, I think...
 
I heartily and fully agree, of course, but I do wonder a little at the 4 1/2 octaves...Karen's 3 octaves ranged from about D3 or E3 (just below Middle C (C4)) to roughly B6 or C6 ...assuming Marilyn could sing as low as Karen (doubtful) and her lowest note was that same D3 say, then her upper or highest note would be a G7 or so...(4 1/2 octaves) - that's 1 1/2 octaves higher than Karen, and beyond the standard range of most operatic sopranos, I think...
My bad, you are correct. She had a three octave range. Marilyn may not have been a true contralto as you said. D3 is quite rare and I don’t remember hearing that from anything that she recorded.
 
@Nemily - whatever octave they were singing in,whenever they were singing they both had my full attention, and adoration.
 
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