Plasma or LCD WideScreen HD TV

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I'm in the market for a new TV, Been searching and reading for a while. I've been tied to a 4:3 box for the past 5 years, it's not a bad set, being a Sony Flat Screen picture tube, it delivers a nice picture but is not High Def compatible at all and it still a huge box 27".

With the wave of Widescreen TV's now and the price dropping I thought it was time. Anyone here have suggestions on which is better, Plasma or LCD, maybe someone here has one and can share their thoughts.

The main things I want is the widescreen in a 35-40" that has the HD built inside and is captiable with a cablecard since I have cable. I want the flat screen that I can either hang on the wall or use the stand.

Was out looking yesterday and the rep says that Plasma's have the best picture but don't last as long as LCD, said that Plasma's also have glare on the screen. Says that LCD has a non glare screen and usually last longer, says they sometimes get pixel burn in so watch carefully when purchasing. The rep showed me HD football game that happened to be on and the clarity was amazing in both the Plasma and LCD tv. He also showed me how if your watching a tv show that is not broadcasting in HD then you can switch the mode on the tv and force the picture into a widescreen mode which was sorta cool so you don't have to watch the black bars on each side on a non HD program.

Anyone have HD in their Tv's now, if so how do you like it compared to regular tv, worth the price, do you have a Plasma or a LCD?

 

[Harry]

We took the HDTV plunge earlier this year, back in June. I remember that we got the set IMMEDIATELY after the last TV season was over as I was sad that I never got to see three of our old favorite programs in HD - AMERICAN DREAMS, STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE, and JOAN OF ARCADIA. None of those three had reruns over the summer.

We bought a Sony KDF-55XS955. That's a 55" LCD rear projection TV with a built-in HDTV tuner. I particularly waited until this past year, as it was finally mandated that all TVs over a certain size had to contain a built-in HDTV tuner. We don't have cable TV, so an over-the-air tuner was mandatory. Earlier sets we looked at had HDTV capability, but you had to either get a set-top tuner additionally, or just use your cable tuner if you had cable. Ours uses a specialized light bulb that projected to last for a few years. After that a fairly simple (but semi-expensive) bulb replacement will be in order.

Our set does have a cable-card input as well as two HDMI digital inputs, several component inputs, several S-VHS inputs, and several good, old-fashioned RCA inputs. I use the component inputs on the TV for now from our DVD players, as neither of the players has HDMI outputs.

HDMI inputs are important if you're going to eventually upgrade to High Definition DVD (either HD-DVD or Blu-ray), since it'll be the only way to get a pure digital input to a TV.

Our TV has since been replaced by an even better model, the SXRD line. These have higher resolution than ours, though in real-life comparison, the difference in my humble opinion, is minor. Still, the higher the resolution, the better.

We made our choice of LCD Rear Projection after looking over the field. Plasma TVs, as you mentioned, have a burn-in problem, and are questionable on how long they'll last. But they are great for hanging on the wall. These TVs will be sensitive to network logos (or any stationary part of a picture) burning into the screen. Owners are warned not to watch too many movies or shows with black bars for fear of burning THOSE into the screen as well. As with any technology, improvements are happening over time that may eliminate the problem on future plasma sets.

Among the other types, we looked at DLP (digital light processing), but that technology has a problem with rainbow effects on fast moving objects. Some can see it - some can't. I've not witnessed it myself, but it would be just my luck to get the thing hooked up and have rainbow-city all over the place. These sets use many tiny mirrors to reflect the image up to the screen. The lag-time in getting these mirrors to do their job is what causes the rainbow effect. I'm told that they're improving this technology as time goes on to eliminate the rainbow effect.

That narrowed our choice down to the LCD types. Several we'd seen had glass-like screens that, IMHO, would be a disaster for reflecting light. Ours had a matte-like finish that's pretty good about keeping reflections down from ambient light.

The drawback to the LCD sets is the angle at which the picture is brightest. Looked at straight on, they have outstanding brightness. Off to one side, the image dims, much like the flat-panel monitors many of us use for our computers. If that's not a drawback for you, then I'd recommend the LCD rear projection type.

Ours sits on a stand, and is far lighter than our old 32" set. The two of us can actually lift this 100 pound set, whereas, I don't think we can handle our old 32" tube set.

Now, on to HDTV programming. As you might know, from watching TV these days, virtually all prime-time network filmed shows are broadcast in HDTV. CBS and NBC use a 1080i standard, while ABC and FOX use a 720p format. What's that, you ask? 1080i stands for 1080 lines of vertical resolution interlaced. 720p stands for 720 lines of vertical resolution progressive scanning.

Interlaced means the picture is drawn in lines on your screen starting from the top and going to the bottom, skipping every other row the first time, then it goes back and fills in the missed lines the second time through. This happens so fast, the eye cannot detect it.

Progressive scanning means that the lines again start at the top, but they fill in every row throughout the 720 lines. Again, it's so fast that the eye cannot detect it.

Because the methods of drawing the picture are different, one drawing alternately 540 lines in two very fast passes, and the other drawing 720 lines consecutively - even though the 1080 is supposed to be higher resolution, it turns out that most humans cannot detect the difference.

The optimal will be 1080p - when they get all 1080 lines in a progressive scan, and that's what these newer SXRD Sony's are supposed to do. These TVs come in both a 60" and a 50" version.

Now let's talk about aspect ratios. Your old tube set is likely a squarish 4:3 set. That means that the width is wider than the height by a ratio of 4 to 3. Most TV shows from television's inception were taped, filmed, broadcast in that ratio. It also happens to be very close to ratio that virtually all pre-1950 movies were filmed at. If you reduce the 4:3 ratio down, you'll get 1.33:1. Movies filmed in the old "Academy ratio" were done at 1.37:1, a near insignificant difference, particularly on TVs, which use "overscan" to not leave any extra part of the screen not showing a picture. So TVs don't show the full filmed image - they cut off a small sliver on each side and at the top and bottom. It's the way most people want to see their TV set's picture displayed, filling the screen.

That brings us to the widescreen movie formats. Back in the '50s, to differentiate themselves from television, motion pictures began using widescreen formats. Two common ones developed over the years, 1.78:1 (or a slightly wider 1.85:1) and 2.35:1. On squarish 4:3 sets, the 1.78:1 movies (if shown at their full width) will have small black bars at the top and bottom. 2.35:1 movies will have larger black bars at the top and bottom.

Since most people apparently cannot stand to have any portion of their TV screen that's not filled with "picture", and to capitalize on the fact that movie-viewing is a large habit of TV viewers, the developers of the HDTV standards decided on the 1.78:1 standard. This means that many movies, when shown in their original aspect ratio, will fill these new screens. Wider movies, like STAR WARS and LORD OF THE RINGS, even on the new sets, will still feature black bars, top and bottom, when shown at their correct aspect ratio.

So, when you get an HDTV, it will, by default be a wider screen than your old TV. So what happens to the old standard-width programs? Well, if you plop on an episode of M*A*S*H, then to keep it in the original aspect ratio, the picture will have black bars (columns) on the sides of the picture. Most of these newer TVs have an option to alter the aspect ratio in several ways to account for people's tastes. There's usually a "wide" mode that'll stretch the picture horizontally. That'll make the actors you're viewing, or your local anchor-person look quite short and fat.

There's also usually a zoom function, that'll keep the actors or anchor-people looking normal, but might chop off a good portion of the top and bottom of the picture to do so. This is a matter of taste. I personally always demand original aspect ratio, and could care less about black bars, no matter where they are. The other problem with zooming is that it tends to magnify the picture in such a way that it becomes fuzzier. It's like having a small picture on your computer that you blow up to make your desktop.

There are also issues that people have with their cable system or dish provider, as to how much bandwidth they are allocating to HD. Some claim to be sending things through in HD, but they're actually down-converting a higher resolution picture to use less of their bandwidth. Check with your local providers - maybe check it out with neighbors with similar set-ups.

So, even with all of these complications, I highly recommend taking the plunge to HDTV. As I said, virtually all prime-time network filmed shows are in glorious HD, and you get a wider picture than you do at standard definition. (NBC uses a letterbox format on their HD shows that are on standard definition, but the others use a pan'n'scan approach to their standard-def programs.) That means that if you're watching a CSI program on a standard def TV, you'll see less of the actual filmed picture than you will on an HDTV. And the high-def resolution on those shows is absolutely breathtaking. For the first few weeks, I was missing the stories as I was so focused on how good the picture looked.

Many HDTV broadcasts these days are also using 5.1 Dolby Digital sound. So your TV shows will now sound as good on your surround system as your DVD movies do.

A word about DVDs on HDTV. Standard DVDs are made for standard NTSC television. It's true that they offer a bit more resolution than most NTSC TVs are capable of displaying, so when you view these on HDTVs, they look even better - but they're still not true HD. And you'll see the difference when you view an episode of LOST in HD and then put on a DVD. Well-mastered DVDs can look really nice on HDTVs - so much so that many wonder if the American public will jump on the HD-DVD bandwagon, knowing that they might have to update their video collections once again. It remains to be seen - and having two competing formats out there (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) isn't helping matters. It could end up being the same kind of thing as SACDs versus DVD-Audio formats. Neither one has "won" and both remain iffy niche formats.

Right now, you might also want to have your TV salesman demonstrate how well a particular HDTV delivers a standard definition signal. Some are much better than others at upconverting a standard definition picture to a watchable picture. Our TV was one of the better ones, meaning we can watch standard TV shows on this TV without condemning how bad the picture looks. They actually can look pretty good.

If you're going to view HDTV over the air like we do (and it's all out there for free), you'll likely need a decent antenna of some sort. We've always had an outdoor TV antenna, and it works just fine for us to pull in the over-the-air HDTV signals. Like with any location, you may depend on cable or a dish to pull in whatever channels you are "supposed" to receive. HDTV signals are a little finicky, and need line-of-sight to the transmitter to effectively get you a picture. One thing with these digital signals - you either get them or you don't. There's no snow or ghosting on these images, but if they're weak, you'll get nothing but a blank screen.

Well, sorry about the length of this post, but it's a big topic, and a confusing one as well. But everyone here should start taking the plunge - standard analog TV is supposed to end in March of 2009. That'll mean you'll have to get a set-top tuner to get an image on your old standard 4:3 sets, as the broadcast spectrum will be used for other services. All broadcast channels right now should have a digital counterpart to air their HDTV broadcasts. Those will survive while the old ones are scheduled to go away. The converter boxes (or cable and dish companies) will be the only way of using those old TVs after the current scheduled date of March 2009. Given the slowness of Americans to adapt to anything new like this, I'd look for that date to be pushed out further - it already has been pushed several times. We were all supposed to be viewing HDTVs this year, I believe the projection was at one point.

Harry
...long-winded, online...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I've been thinking about doing something with HD for a while, but am still confused about all the options. Thanks for a very informative post, Harry.

We still have a Zenith TV from the late 1970s that works fine in our living room....the thing is like a member of the family -- I've had it in 4 different houses now. I wonder if any of these HDs will last that long.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Wow Harry, excellent write up, I actually went and read that twice. Thanks for taking the time. I've always owned a Sony TV, my first was the standard box 25" (remember those days when that was the standard size) it was not even a flat tube but convex. Then I finally went with the Sony Wega Flat Picture Tube 27" still delivers a great picture but is still over 100lbs and boxed shaped. It also has no HD capability.

I'm looking at the Sony LCD Flat Panel Televisions. They had them hanging in the store on the wall and another model on the floor. The one I am looking at has the matte finish and the rep says that there is no glare from windows and such, then he took me over to the plasma's and showed me the glare that they project, that turned me off, although I thought the picture quality was clearer on the plasma, I could not deal with the glare from indoor lighting and light from windows. The LCD he showed me did not exhibit any glare.

I have to admit it was funny watching the football game in HD in the store and then when a commercial came on it went back to P&S with the black bars on each side (picture went out of HD for the commercials) and then when the game came back on it went back to HD and immediatly filled up the whole screen in this clarity and vivid picture that I couldn't believe it.

Since I have recently added a DVD recorder to my tv set up, I've set it up according to the manual and it all works great but one thing I found odd was that I have my coaxial cable (for my local cable) that goes directly into the DVD Recorder and then another cable going from the DVD Recorder back up to the TV. Of course the cable needs to feed into the DVD Recorder to download all the programing in order to set up in advance your fav program to record to the Harddrive on the DVD Recorder.

What I'm confused about now is if I get a HDTV with the built in decoder, the rep at the store says all I need to do is get the cablecard from my local cable company and provided I've signed up with them for HD service I will be good to go. BUT would I need to take the coaxial cable (my outside cable line) out of the DVD Recorder where it is now and put it into the back of the new HDTV, or leave it the way it is. I guess they will show me when I get the cablecard. I also realize that capturing a program onto my DVD recorder that is broadcasted in HD will NOT give me HD into my DVD Recorder, it will just be a digital picture not HD but I was just concerned about how to connect the outside cable into the new HDTV or leave it into my DVD Recorder as it is now.

I just want to make sure I've connected everything correctly to take advantage of the HDTV.

I'm really ready to take the HD plunge, I'm tired of watching my favorite programs and seeing the caption in the beginging "presented in HD" and not being able to take advantage of it. Seeing the broadcast in the store of HD was breathtaking.

...also feeling a bit long-winded...

 

[Rudy]

One type of set I'd avoid are the plasmas: they were known to have a short life span. Longevity has improved in the past year or two, however.

I rarely watch the tube anymore, other than to play the GameCube or throw in a DVD. I even disconnected my DirecTV and the TV antenna last May and have not missed it one bit. I would like to get an HD set, but from what I've seen so far, I'm going to wait a couple of years for further improvements in quality, and a drop in price. Ultimately I would prefer a flat panel set, although CRT tubes still have the edge in picture quality today.

 

[Dave]

eCoustics at the link below has an on-going discussion-board on Plasma vs. LCD WideScreen HD TV, with at the top, the Pro's & Con's of each:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/94117.html​

Dave inkshield:

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

So I finally took the pludge and got HD. All I can say is wow, what a huge difference with watching tv programs that broadcast in HD. I'm using the new technology of the cable card from my local cable company and the cable card goes into the back of your HD television, it replaces the need for a cable box.

My only problem now is all my HD cable channels are in the 200's like 202, 205, 213, etc... and I can't pick those high channel numbers up through my VCR or DVD Recorder. My DVD recorder only picks up cable channels through 125. That is a rip off. I can only pick up analog channels through my VCR or DVD Recorder and my analog channels are all snowy & terrible looking.

Anyway around this, anyone know? They must do this on purpose so you don't record digital cable channels or high definition channels.

 

[Harry]

Yep, that's pretty much the game plan. Hollywood doesn't really want you plucking HD signals off the air and keeping them - more importantly to them - selling them.

But there's technology at play here, too. Digital HDTV signals aren't compaitible with your VCR or DVD Recorder anyway. They were built for analog NTSC broadcasts and that's all that they are designed to do. There's much more information in a digital picture and old VCRs and DVD Recorders aren't capable of capturing that information. So even if you could manage to tune your VCR or DVD-recorder to a digital channel, it wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what to do with it, let alone record it.

There ARE digital hard drives out there, that will allow you to capture a TV program digitally (I know Sony makes a couple of these), but for a standard consumer, there isn't any way to preserve that info on a DVD or anything else. Remember, the industry is still fighting over HD DVD formats; they're barely being introduced as of now, and they are not recordable yet.

Some cable systems will offer personal DVR (digital video recorders) for use with their system, and things like TiVO are out there to aid with this as well.

I don't have cable or dish at this point, and get all of my HD content over-the-air with an antenna. When I record something with my DVD-recorder for watching later, it's just an analog NTSC signal, and compared to HD, you're right, it sucks. But by playing with the TV's menu controls, I've been able, with my Sony HDTV to get a fairly nice analog picture out of it.

The new TV's are designed to look their best in HD, and they are breathtaking. One of the drawbacks for many people is how disappointing the analog signals look. But once you get used to it, you'll find that the analog signals might actually look better than they ever have before - it's just that they had such little resolution to begin with, that we all just got used to those formerly perfect pictures. The new big screens also magnify every little flaw there is in a picture, and the fact that these TV's do what they do with these crappy analog signals is an amazing feat of engineering, if you ask me.

I'm looking forward to the Olympics and how neat they're going to look in HD. Sporting events in HD are amazing. I'm not a football fan at all, but this past year I found myself watching more football than I ever have before - and not because I cared about the game at all - just because the picture looked so darned good. I could read what was on the hats on people in the stands, and actually view their expressions. On an old standard def broadcasts, those details were at best just little blurs. You could see that the person had a hat, and that was about it.

Motion artifacts are the other thing you'll see now and then with a digital HD broadcast. Occasionally, a fast moving object will appear blurry or blocky or with what look scan lines for a brief moment. This is actually quite normal for where we are in technology right now. In the years to come, I'm sure, with better receivers, better broadcasting technologies, these little glitches will get smoothed out.

It was the same way with color-TV when it first came into being. Back in the late '50s, some channels began broadcasting some shows in color. The early, crude, color TV's of the days did indeed display those pictures in color, but it was often blotchy, blurry, or had colors bleeding all over the place. Eventually, they got better - both the TV's and the broadcasts.

Right now, when you watch a show in HD, and they go to commercials, 95% of the time, the commercials will be in standard definition. It was the same way back the old days - when you watched a color TV show, invariable, the commercials were in black & white.

Congrats on taking the jump to HDTV. If I may ask, what model/size did you get?

Harry

 

[Rudy]

Remember, the industry is still fighting over HD DVD formats; they're barely being introduced as of now, and they are not recordable yet.

Some cable systems will offer personal DVR (digital video recorders) for use with their system, and things like TiVO are out there to aid with this as well.

Part of the issue with HD broadcasts is that the studios want digital encryption on the files so that they can not be recorded or duplicated. So, that could be another hold-up for digital off-the-air recorders for now...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Yeah your right Harry, the person that sold me my tv said that my cable company does offer a DVR box you can rent each month that will record the HD channels, I guess it works like a tivo but it's there own DVR. The drawback is there's no DVD recordable drive to save the program to disc. You just record and then watch it later and then erase it unlike a DVD Recorder you can save to a DVD-R.

I'm just bummed that I bought my Panasonic DVD Recorder about 6 months ago and I thought that it was going to be able to pick up my digital cable higher channels so I can record them to my DVR hardrive and burn them to DVD to keep for myself. But like you said I can't pick up those higher channels through either the VCR or the DVD Recorder. I can only get the analog ones, there ok but after seeing the HD & digital channels it's hard to watch the analog ones anymore. I'm really bummed about that, it's not like I am going to sell anything, I just want excellent quality for myself.

I ended up purchasing a Sony 40" BRAVIA™ XBR® LCD Flat Panel HDTVKDL-V40XBR1 It has HDTV (built-in ATSC tuner for over-the-air HD reception). It also has the Cablecard slot in the back. I picked up the cable card right from the cable company store so they programed the card for HD and then they sent the signal to my existing cable. The cable card has worked great and I was watching HD channels that same night. The other night I watched Lost and American Idol both in HD and all I can say is WOW, it was like you were there, you could see so many details that are missing in analog, I mean the details and colors are incredible, in Lost when they panned to the green hills of the island it was breathtaking and like you could reach out and grab it or like you were walking along with them through the jungle. Amazing. I still have all my analog channels 2-78. Now I want ALL my channels in HD, is that too much to ask for?

There is a discovery channel that broadcasts in HD 24/7 and it's just incredible to watch if you like nature and animal stuff. Of course TNN also broadcasts in HD. One night I caught Late Night w/ Letterman and also Tonight Show both in HD and it was like you were in the audience and on stage with them, simply amazing picture, hard to put into words. I also get the WB cable channel that broadcasts in HD and PBS that also is in HD and Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC.

The only problem I have now and I want to upgrade to the next package with includes 25 more digital channels and HBO but they have to re-program the cablecard so someone either has to come out to your home or you have to bring the card into the office, so I plan to do that tomorrow and see how that goes. I didn't want to be tied to a box for digital service cause you end up tied to their remote and it's never compatible to all my stuff. Since my receiver with dolby digital is Sony and my tv is Sony and my DVD player with dolby digital is Sony then everything works with 1 remote for me. A huge plus for me. Coupled with my Bose 5 speaker surround sound 3 front, Right, Center, Left and 2 rear, left and right, watching a DVD in dolby now is amazing experience with this new TV.

 

[Harry]

Sounds great, Chris. Good luck with your new set-up. We've been having a blast with ours.

Yeah, it's a pain that we can't record the HD stuff yet, but be patient. You should know that you're still early in the High Definition TV game. As more and more Americans grab onto this technology, they too will want to record and save programs in HD. And one thing I've learned that is almost always true - whatever Americans really want, they usually get.

Harry

 

[Mr Bill]

One of my co-workers has found a away to record his HD DVR recordings... He's a real tech type and half what he says and does goes over our heads.

One thing he told me about that I am definitey getting is a "SlingBox" which will allow me, while deployed later this year, to watch shows my wife records on our Tivo (not really Tivo but ta DVR supplied by the cable company) on my PC while.

The extra "tax-free" and "danger pay" I earn while gone will be used to finish remodlling our house. Just the living room and family room remain. Family room will get the home theatre treatment and I've been eyeing those "Plasma vs LCD" debates closely. I've never seen such posturing and egos since the Mac vs PC debates.... What a hoot. To my mind it's the same thing. The Plasma defenders are overly sensitive (like the Mac guys) for having paid twice as much for half the life span (with Macs it's twice as much for half the power and half the mouse buttons).

My take on Plasma vs LCD:
Plasma looks better,
Plasma is more expensive
Plasma has a shorter life span.

In the two years I've been watching, the image quality on LCD has improved dramatically and in some cases I've even mistaken an LCD for a plasma in my observations. By the time I get back next Fall, LCD image quality should be super. (I like the Sony WEVA in paticular) I should be able to buy the LCD of my dreams by then.

--Mr Bill

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Harry can you explain what 1080i and 720p means. I've noticed that with my cable when I change channels it gives this text in the display window next to the channel # your on that disappears within a few secds when changing channels.

For my HD Channels it shows this: all are 16:9
HD TNN 1080i
HD Theatre Discovery 1080i
HD ABC 720p
HD CBS 1080i
HD Fox 720p
HD WB (the WB network) 1080i
HD PBS 1080i

I've noticed that the 1080i picture seems to have the best HD picture of them all. Although the 720p is also excellent. The HD Discovery Theatre is just one amazing picture, they show alot of enviromental shows and animal shows, yesterday they went to the winter alps in Vermont and it was just incredible so lifelike that sometimes I found myself tuning out the commentary unknowingly because the picture was just something I have never witnessed before.

I have also noticed on the display screen when changing to analog channels that they just say NTSC. When I change to a digital cable channel (not HD but just digital, the display says 480i 4:3, this picture almost looks close to a DVD but not quite as good as DVD clarity. So my digital channels are alot better than analog just nowhere near HD and just below DVD.

My TV manual says it can show 1366 X 768 lines (Horizontal vs Vertical). It has HD/DVD input using the Red Green Blue (RGB), I'm using that for my DVD player. I am assuming that mean in the future that this input an handle HD resolution of 1080i. But for now I'm using the RGB from the TV to my DVD player.

You stated above in your previous post that 1080i was vertical resolution?

..who also can't wait for the Olympics in HD....

 

[Harry]

The number, 1080, refers to one-thousand eighty horizontal lines. This means that the lines that create your TV picture go across your screen from left to right. The number of lines, stacked on top of each other, are what give you "vertical" resolution. Sometimes the "horizontal" and "vertical" terms get confusing.

The "i" and "p" refer to whether the scanning is "interlaced" or "progressive". Interlaced scanning produced one picture in two halves, with every other line skipped the first time through, and then painted in the second time through. Progressive scanning produces a complete picture in one scan.

So, the current theory out there goes that 1080 lines producing a picture in two passes (1080i), is at least as good as 720p, with fewer lines but producing a picture in just one pass. Both are HDTV pictures by definition, but each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

If you're looking at a rather static picture, perhaps a singer on a stage, or a newscaster reading the news, then a 1080i picture might appear to have a bit more clarity than a 720p version of the same image.

If you're watching a hockey game with a lot ofast action, then a 720p version of the picture would appear more solid than a 1080i version of that game, which might appear to have the fast motion breaking up due to the interlacing of the image.

As you noted above, many of the broadcasters have electedtp do their HDTV telecasting in 1080i, with Fox and ABC adopting the 720p format. From what I understand, both were concerned about football games and how they'd look in High-Def, and elected to use the more solid-picture 720p.

Then there's the matter of what your TV does with the image its sent. Both your TV and mine from Sony have as their "native" vertical resolution of 768 lines. Included in the electronics of these TVs are instructions on what to do with the varying types of pictures they are sent. Thus, no matter whether you watch a 720p broadcast or a 1080i broadcast, your TV is up-or-down-converting the signal to 768 lines.

And that also applies to any input source. I'm told (and I now believe) that a progressive scanning DVD player is not of much use on these TVs. The scalers included in the TV (to convert to the 768 lines of resolution) are so good, that progressive scanning DVD players only add to the conversion process, producing a softer picture as a result. I've witnessed with my own eyes that switching between progressive and interlaced on my DVD player on this TV, produces a better, sharper, clearer picture on the Interlaced setting than when I set it Progressive scan. It comes down to letting the TV's superior scaler do the work.

There's much discussion of these topics on the Internet. A quick Google search of "1080i" or "720p" will reveal a plethora of discussion.

Harry

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Thanks again for the info, I understand now alot better.

The cable guy who specializes in just the cablecard for my cable co which is Comcast finally came out yesterday and now I finally got all the plus channels with my cable with the addition of HBO.

The neat thing is I'm now getting 3 additional HD channels I didn't have before, 2 HD channels that broadcast 24/7 called IN demand HD, one channel shows alot of concerts & car stuff, the other is misc stuff. Both are 1080i and are amazing. I was also suprised to get HBO in HD which was really cool. That's the only prem channel I have. I watched Spiderman 2 in HD looks so cool.

For those that don't have cable, I would recomend getting it cause you get so many more HD channels.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Harry, I bought a Sony HD DVR Recorder from my local Tweeter store. I can now record HD broadcasts. This unit has a cablecard slot in the back of the DVR so it picks up all my analog, digital and HD channels with the ability to record them to the 500 GB harddrive. The best part is I can then import the program from the Sony harddrive into my Panasonic DVD recorder and burn the tv program to a DVD disc, Of course I'm not getting HD on the DVD burn disc only SD (Standard Def) but still the quality is 10 x better than analog. There is a SD output on the back (I use the S-Video) to go to your input on my DVD recorder so that is how I can capture the digital and HD channels into my DVD recorder and save to DVD disc, again only getting SD quality but still great picture.

The best part is this Sony DVR model DHD-HDD500 was currently like $900.00 and alot of places are selling them from $699.00 up to $900.00 but now just lowered to $249.00

It appears just recently that Tweeter owned companies have marked them down to $249.00, this is a terrific price for a 500 GB harddrive (that is huge)
If you have any of these stores you may want to check it out:

Tweeter
HiFi Buys
Sound Advice
Showcase Home Entertainment
Hillcrest High Fidelity

I bought mine from Sound Advice (a tweeter store) new in box. The only drawback on the machine is there is only 1 tuner so you can't record one channel and watch another (like a VCR) your stuck with keeping the channel locked on the station you want recorded to the hardrive if you change the channel you lose the recording. Sorta a big drawback for me and I have 30 days to return it so I am still thinking about that.

I believe the reason for the huge drop in price is the model is discontinued just recently by Sony so I'm sure they will be coming out with a newer model in the future.

The other great benefit with this Sony HD recorder is they will work with OTA (over the air) like what you are using Harry or you can use with a cablecard like what I am using it for.

It contains the free TV guide programing that will download once you keep it off for over 24 hrs before using it the first time. better than paying a monthly fee like Tivo forces you to do.

I'm sure like you said the Bue Ray and other stuff will be out soon but I'm sure it will be expensive at first. This is a nice machine at a low price for the features to tie one over till the better stuff comes out.

Here is a link to the model from Amazon of course way overpriced
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...f=pd_bbs_2/103-9559744-3293405?_encoding=UTF8

 

[Harry]

Thanks Chris, I'll have to check that out.

Question, when you record a widescreen broadcast and then attempt to port that over to SD, does it remain widescreen? That would be great if it did - I don't mind black bars or having to zoom, as long as I get to see the whole picture.

Currently, if I record, say LOST, from the analog signal, it's just a 4:3 picture, taken from the center of the widescreen image on the HD version - and it's analog, over-the-air NTSC, which suffers from both lousy resolution and ghosting, etc.

I'd love to be able to "capture" the purer digital picture, even if it's at a lower resolution, just to preserve the widescreen image - and without ghosting.

Harry

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Question, when you record a widescreen broadcast and then attempt to port that over to SD, does it remain widescreen? That would be great if it did - I don't mind black bars or having to zoom, as long as I get to see the whole picture.Harry

Yes, in fact you have 2 options of doing it. On this Sony DVR you can select the format by pressing the format button on the remote this will scroll through the possible formats such as 1080i, 750p, SD out, etc.. If you choose 1080i like I did for this HD Discovery program and then I port that into my DVD recorder it will have the black bars on the top and bottom. But like you said all you have to do is after you have it recorded to the DVD recorder then just hit your TV remote option to display the image full screen, when you do that it will take it from the black bars to full screen no black bars and the picture quality is exactly like the HD broadcast, in full screen with no distortion, it looks perfect.

The second option is if want to record a program that is from a digital channel or analog (not HD) the original broadcast picture will have the black bars on each side, you would want to choose SD out on the Sony DVR by hitting the format button on the DVR remote prior to recording it to the DVD recorder that way it will port it exactly the same and you get the exact same picture from the recording as you see it from the broadcast.

It's great cause like you said on the HD broadcasts it will record it with the black bars on the side and top but on playback of the recorded program from the DVD recorder just hit full screen and you will get the playback of the recorded program in full screen exactly like the HD broadcast. The picture quality is very good, of course I don't think I'm getting the full HD picture quality from the DVD recorder upon playback but it looks excellent to me, nice digital picture.

Currently, if I record, say LOST, from the analog signal, it's just a 4:3 picture, taken from the center of the widescreen image on the HD version - and it's analog, over-the-air NTSC, which suffers from both lousy resolution and ghosting, etc.Harry

Exactly that is what I was getting before I got this HD Recorder. But you can record the HD program on this machine and import that to my DVD recoder and upon playback just hit the tv format button and select full and it will be the same as the HD broadcast.

I'd love to be able to "capture" the purer digital picture, even if it's at a lower resolution, just to preserve the widescreen image - and without ghosting.Harry

Right, the digital picture capture is so much better than analog. Currently on most all my analog channels are terrible, yes watchable but very poor. One of my channels which is CBS on the analog station always has a big line running down the channel, it's analog and I've reported it to the cable co but it's been like that for over a year.

Another update, I was back at my local sound advice this am and after speaking my sales guy (by the way they are so much more knowledgable) I was telling him again that if you want to record a program from this Sony DVR that you have to watch that program you can't change the channel because it only has 1 tuner. He said just get a cable splitter and use the cable in to the splitter and on the splitter you have 2 out's, use a coxial cable to the DVR and use another coxial cable back up to the TV. Hooked that up when I got back and yes it works, that is great cause there are times when 2 shows will be on at the same time and I want to record one while I watch another.

Oh another bit of info, the guy at my sound advice store said, word must be out all over the internet that Tweeter stores have dropped the price on this machine cause they had 6 in stock after I got mine last week and one guy called them and he wanted all 6. I told they guy, yeah they probably will sell them on ebay. I guess $249.00 is too good of a deal for a 500 GB drive. It says you can record 60 hrs of HD and 400 hrs of SD.

Oh I'm also using the HDMI cables from the DVR to my TV since both have those inputs, the first time I have ever used HDMI cable before. So simple just one cable for the HDMI, easy to connect.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Just to clarify a few things. My post above was basically speaking about how to capture the HD broadcast to save them to a DVD recorder and later burn to a DVD.

Otherwise this Sony DVR is just like a Tivo it records to the DVR harddrive. The Sony uses the free TV guide that downloads to the DVR (you must keep the DVR turned off for the first 24 hours for the TV guide program to download. Once that is done you just open the tv guide, find your program and click set to record, it then records any program to the DVR harddrive, whether it be analog, digital or your HD channels. I believe the only other DVR's out on the market that will record HD broadcasts are the DVR's from your local cable company (you must rent these for a monthly fee) then there are the Direct TV HD DVR's that work only with Direct TV subscription.

So this Sony HD DVR was exactly what I was looking for with it being able to record HD broadcasts to the DVR and re-watch it later in the exact same format HD. The bonus was I can also port all my analog, digital and HD channels directly into my DVD recoder to save to disc.

Some people who have Tivo must pay a $12.00 fee just to use their TV guide. I refuse to pay for that service.