Rare Richard Single

Murray said:
Were any of Mark Holden's albums released outside of Australia? This is the first I've heard of him. Thanks to YouTube, here's his original recording from 1983!
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This is the way the tune should sound. Richard's is too awkward and fey. He didn't have the confidence or the lead vocal range to pull this off. This is the second attempt Richard made on "Time" to be trendy and, like every time he's tried it throughout his career, he comes off sounding square and out of touch. For me, Mark's version is far better in terms of production and singing.

Ed
 
Here's another version of "Who Do You Love". It's in the same key as Mark's but it badly needs bass and doesn't have the groove of Mark's either. It was released in 1984:



Ed
 
ThaFunkyFakeTation said:
This is the way the tune should sound. Richard's is too awkward and fey. He didn't have the confidence or the lead vocal range to pull this off. This is the second attempt Richard made on "Time" to be trendy and, like every time he's tried it throughout his career, he comes off sounding square and out of touch. For me, Mark's version is far better in terms of production and singing.

Ed
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Richard certainly doesn't express the feeling of the song in the same way as the original. You're right - you'd need to express a lot more abandon and a bit of wildness or freedom of spirit to make the sexual innuendo of the lyrics ring true. Although maybe that's not the side of the song he chose to accentuate in his version. While I said his version was a close copy of Mark Holden's original, he did focus upon his trademark background harmonies. In Mark Holden's version, the harmonies mainly only appear in the chorus and are mixed into the background more. I still don't mind Richard's version, but I think Mark Holden's is better.
 
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I think that Richard's is a 'cleaner' production but, then again, we haven't heard a CD or digital version of the Mark Holden recording to compare. I haven't listened to the Rob Tro version yet. Richard's 'cleaner' production also equals a bit sterile, in my opinion. I agree with Ed ThaFunkyFakeTation for the reasons in my posts, above. But, then again, Richard clearly went for a different emphasis on his recording and it's still not bad.
 
I'm no fan of Richard's lead vocals, but I agree with Mark above,
Richard's version of the song sounds best to my ears !
Really, not a bad effort on Richard's part. He tried.
 
GaryAlan said:
I'm no fan of Richard's lead vocals, but I agree with Mark above,
Richard's version of the song sounds best to my ears !
Really, not a bad effort on Richard's part. He tried.
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Richard's has no groove, IMHO. Mark's has groove for days! He's a significantly better singer and the production is overall far punchier to my ears.

Ed
 
^^I do recall a girlfriend back in those days--of Time--
she actually liked much of the Album !
So, I do wonder if Richard was aiming for the female fan base ?
Even so, I suppose it's a 'guilty pleasure'---me liking Who Do You Love !
 
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Murray said:
Were any of Mark Holden's albums released outside of Australia? This is the first I've heard of him. Thanks to YouTube, here's his original recording from 1983!
Click to expand...

The beginning reminds me of GNTLMN's Get Some video.

This track is one of the highlights on Richard's Time album for me, though it's practically identical to this version. Weirdly, I can hear Karen in the background vocals. Wishful thinking.
 
Graeme said:
The beginning reminds me of GNTLMN's Get Some video.

This track is one of the highlights on Richard's Time album for me, though it's practically identical to this version. Weirdly, I can hear Karen in the background vocals. Wishful thinking.
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I agree. The highest line in Richard's multi-layered falsetto vocals sounds a bit like Karen.
 
Graeme said:
This track is one of the highlights on Richard's Time album for me, though it's practically identical to this version. Weirdly, I can hear Karen in the background vocals. Wishful thinking.
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It's funny, I've got the "Lovelines" album on right now and on the song 'Lovelines' a few of the backing vocals sound like Richard and yet the liner notes say that Karen did all the backing vocals. For a second I thought maybe Richard had mixed in some of his vocals in 1989 to give a Carpenters sound, but no, his sister was imitating him!
 
Richard's biggest gifts are his vocal arranging skills. He could (and often did) elevate complete dross simply with his vocal arrangements and Karen's voice (from time to time, in that order). I honestly think that's always been the case. The vocal arrangement on "Who Do You Love" is really good. It's tastier than the one on Mark Holden's version for sure. It just needs a more playful and fun lead.

I've just listened again a couple of times to Richard's and I see what he was going for production-wise. Richard's productions are always very clean and tidy. This song calls for something dirtier, less glossy, and more than anything, punchier. It's got to hit hard and groove. Chris Brunt & Mark Hamilton (the producers on Mark's version) nailed that on both counts. Mark's version sounds like it should have jumped out of the radio. It's also in a higher key which makes it more exciting to listen to. Richard's key choice could have been successful if the production hit harder and if his vocal were more committed.

Ed
 
tomswift2002 said:
It's funny, I've got the "Lovelines" album on right now and on the song 'Lovelines' a few of the backing vocals sound like Richard and yet the liner notes say that Karen did all the backing vocals. For a second I thought maybe Richard had mixed in some of his vocals in 1989 to give a Carpenters sound, but no, his sister was imitating him!
Click to expand...

I've always thought the vocal arrangements sounded like the guy who did them - Rod Temperton. Temperton's style and Richard's style are very different. Richard is very choral and Temperton arranged in a very jazz/dissonant style. Given that the styles are different, I only hear Karen sounding like Karen. She's gonna sound a bit like him because they're brother and sister but I doubt she was consciously trying to sound like him.

Ed
 
ThaFunkyFakeTation said:
Richard's biggest gifts are his vocal arranging skills. The vocal arrangement on "Who Do You Love" is really good. It just needs a more playful and fun lead. This song calls for something dirtier, less glossy, and more than anything, punchier. It's got to hit hard and groove. Chris Brunt & Mark Hamilton (the producers on Mark's version) nailed that on both counts. Mark's version sounds like it should have jumped out of the radio. It's also in a higher key which makes it more exciting to listen to. Richard's key choice could have been successful if the production hit harder and if his vocal were more committed.

Ed
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I agree with all that. Richard's version sounds too 'clean' in the production, the overall sound and in his vocal delivery. However, I'm kind of glad that he didn't go for a 'dirtier' approach. It wouldn't have suited him.

He goes into his falsetto even before the choruses. Use of his falsetto detracts from the song. Any power or strength it would have had dissolves at that point. As you said, the vocals need punch and a sense of playfulness / lad-about-town-ness.

You can see why this track didn't have widespread release as a single...... although it's not bad, as far as Richard's solo songs go.
 
Brian said:
I agree with all that. Richard's version sounds too 'clean' in the production, the overall sound and in his vocal delivery. However, I'm kind of glad that he didn't go for a 'dirtier' approach. It wouldn't have suited him.

He goes into his falsetto even before the choruses. Use of his falsetto detracts from the song. Any power or strength it would have had dissolves at that point. As you said, the vocals need punch and a sense of playfulness / lad-about-town-ness.

You can see why this track didn't have widespread release as a single...... although it's not bad, as far as Richard's solo songs go.
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I agree that the dirtier, groove approach wouldn't have suited him. He'd need a vocal with more swagger to go with it and he didn't have it. "Lad-about-town-ness"...perfect description!

The worst thing about the album is his lead tenor voice. He's right to have no confidence in it. As a background singer, they come no better. Background singing really is a skill and he always had it in spades; he just doesn't have a good lead with notable range.

Ed
 
Particularly in the earlier years, I think Richard's voice is better than most of us give him credit for. Iconic? No. Above average? Yes.
 
Imagine how blown away I was to hear his singing at Karen's wedding,
it was very good ! So, he has (or, had) it in himself to do very good leads !
 
ThaFunkyFakeTation said:
I agree that the dirtier, groove approach wouldn't have suited him. He'd need a vocal with more swagger to go with it and he didn't have it. "Lad-about-town-ness"...perfect description!

The worst thing about the album is his lead tenor voice. He's right to have no confidence in it. As a background singer, they come no better. Background singing really is a skill and he always had it in spades; he just doesn't have a good lead with notable range.

Ed
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'Swagger' is a good word. Yes, Richard's background vocals blend perfectly with Karen's. And he's obviously a great arranger of vocals. Clearly! Unquestionably. I guess it comes down to personal choice. I just don't particularly like his 'lead vocal' voice. However, as I've said, I did like 'I Kept On Loving You', 'Get Together' and a couple of his other songs on 'Ticket to Ride', but not necessarily because of his singing. It hasn't helped that he mainly sang the sillier, light-weight songs on Carpenters' projects. Btw, I do think he has charisma and I like the way he comes across. I have massive respect for him and his talents. I just don't really like his singing.
 
GaryAlan said:
Imagine how blown away I was to hear his singing at Karen's wedding,
it was very good ! So, he has (or, had) it in himself to do very good leads !
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I think it really depended on the type of material he was singing. He did really well with slower, crooner type songs, like "Toyland", "You'll Never Know", and "The Wedding Prayer". But a popstar he was not. On songs like "Say Yeah", and "Who Do You Love", his lead vocals are far from convincing. He should have focused on his strengths.
 
Murray said:
I think it really depended on the type of material he was singing. He did really well with slower, crooner type songs, like "Toyland", "You'll Never Know", and "The Wedding Prayer". But a popstar he was not. On songs like "Say Yeah", and "Who Do You Love", his lead vocals are far from convincing. He should have focused on his strengths.
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He sounded good on "I Kept On Loving You" and the older stuff. He sounded involved with the material on the older material. On the Pop stuff on "Time", he doesn't. I don't believe that he's longing for his "woman du jour" on "Say Yeah!" or somewhat confused by her on "Who Do You Love". The vocal on both needed to be sly, playful and "man about town". In both cases, his vocal is tentative and he sounds worried about hitting notes that are well out of his comfortable range.

Ed
 
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