recording dates for studio albums

[Gordo]

Hi, folks! I've been lurking on this forum for quite some time -- some of you will remember me from Carpenters boards past. I'm not entirely sure why I hadn't signed up here sooner, but I now have a bit of a puzzle to share.

A few months back, I backed up all of my Carpenters tracks (CDs and assorted goodies amassed over the years) to MP3 format. I carefully entered metadata (file information, such as the name of the album) for each track.

My wife & I recently upgraded to Windows Vista. In doing so, I gained a few handy new metadata fields, but lost some of my original metadata. (For example, in Windows XP, I used the "Year" field to record the year of the album's release and, in parentheses, the year of the song's actual recording. Windows Vista apparently doesn't allow non-numeric characters in the "Year" field, however, so my date-of-recording information was stripped out.)

As Homer Simpson once said, "I can rebuild!"

...But it's taken a good chunk of today! For discussion's sake, I thought I'd post my list of songs whose date of recording differs from their album's date of release. I have cobbled this information together from CD liner notes, unofficial online resources, and Richard's website (and even his personal reply to a few specific queries).

To my knowledge, all of the following songs were recorded in a year other than their album's release date:

• 1971 Carpenters: For All We Know (1970)

• 1972 A Song For You: Hurting Each Other (1971), Bless The Beasts And Children (1971)

• 1975 Horizon: Please Mr. Postman (1974)

• 1978 Christmas Portrait: Christ Is Born (1977), Winter Wonderland / Silver Bells / White Christmas (1977)

• 1981 Made In America: I Believe You (1978), Touch Me When We're Dancing (1980), When It's Gone (1980), Because We Are In Love (1980)

• 1983 Voice Of The Heart: Now (1982), Sailing On The Tide (1980), You're Enough (1982), Make Believe It's Your First Time (1980), Two Lives (1980), At The End Of A Song (1980), Ordinary Fool (1976), Prime Time Love (1982), Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore (1980), Look To Your Dreams (1978)

• 1984 An Old-Fashioned Christmas: Home For The Holidays (1978), Little Altar Boy (1978), Do You Hear What I Hear? (1978), He Came Here For Me (1978), Santa Claus Is Coming To Town (1974), What Are You Doing New Year's Eve (1978), I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day (1978)

• 1989 Lovelines: Lovelines (1979), Where Do I Go From Here? (1978), The Uninvited Guest (1980), If We Try (1979), When I Fall In Love (1978), Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night (1980), Remember When Lovin' Took All Night (1979), You're The One (1977), Honolulu City Lights (1978), Slow Dance (1978), If I Had You (1979), Little Girl Blue (1978)

• 2001 As Time Goes By: Without A Song (1980), Superstar / Rainy Days And Mondays (1976), Nowhere Man (1967), I Got Rhythm (1980), Dancing In The Street (1978), Dizzy Fingers (1980), You're Just In Love (1980), Karen / Ella Medley (1980), Close Encounters / Star Wars (1978), Leave Yesterday Behind (1978), Carpenters / Como Medley (1974), California Dreamin' (1967), The Rainbow Connection (1980), Hits Medley '76 (1976), And When He Smiles (1971)

I'm open to discussion on any of these dates! Let me know what you think.

Also, I'm trying to track down dates and details for the following items:

• Richard's solo "Toyland": Was this part of the 1978 "Christmas Portrait" TV special? Past posts have said so, but the only track listing I've found for the special online (Santa Claus Is Coming To Town; Jingle Bells; Merry Christmas, Darling; Christmas In Killarney; Angel In The Christmas Play; The Christmas Waltz; Ave Maria) doesn't mention it.

• radio interview where KC sings snippets of "Laughter In The Rain" and "This One's For You": A past post attributed this to a 1981 BBC interview. Does that sound right?

I think that about does it for now! (Although I need to make a similar post in the Herb Alpert forum about the Lost Treasures album!)

Cheers,
Gordo

 

[Harry]

Gordo! Welcome to the Forum!

Yes, I remember you from Ran's old board. Good to hear from you and find that you didn't drop off the face of the Earth.

I can confirm at least your first three albums above. After that, I really didn't pay that much strict attention to actual recording dates of individual tracks.

Harry

 

[wisejester7]

Good Sleuthing, Gordo.

Thanks for sharing the information about the years ... both actual recording dates and album release dates. Interesting stuff.

 

[newvillefan]

Interesting stuff . The only discrepancy I can see is this one:

Prime Time Love (1982)

This song was part of the Made In America sessions from 1980/1981.

Stephen

 

[Gordo]

Interesting stuff . The only discrepancy I can see is this one:

Prime Time Love (1982)

This song was part of the Made In America sessions from 1980/1981.

Stephen

Aha -- this is one of the ones I've been unsure about.

The official site (http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Album_Voice Of The Heart.htm) lists Now and You're Enough as the only tracks recorded in 1982. However, a reply from Richard (via his previous webmaster) gave 1982 for Prime Time Love as well. I'm inclined to agree with you, Stephen, and the website -- so that would change Prime Time Love to 1980 or 1981.

Incidentally, it was also Richard's e-mail that pinned Sailing On The Tide down to 1980 for me.

G.

 

[Walkinat9]

Hi Gordo,

I can confirm Richard's "Toyland" as part of the 1978 Christmas Portrait TV special.


There's been a bit of discussion about "Sailing on the tide" in an old post here: http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1271&highlight=sailing+tide

I do remember reading a 1975 fanclub newsletter mentioning "Sailing on the tide", but I'm not sure whether it was about the composition or the recording of it...


Btw, have you got the original 45 of "Santa Claus is coming to town" from 1974? You'll find that the sax solo on it is different from the 1984 album version. I guess that part was re-recorded for the OFC release.. Can anyone confirm?

Greetz,

Greg

 

[Gordo]

Thanks, Greg!

I had forgotten about the old "Sailing On The Tide" thread. That might be the one that triggered my writing to Richard in the first place. As I say, Richard replied to me that it was a 1980 track, but this old thread attributes it to 1975 or 1977.

Also interesting are the dates on At The End Of A Song and Your Baby Doesn't Love You. Again, Richard's website attributes these to 1980, but this old thread chalks them up to 1982.

...However, as I've said, Richard's reply to me RE: Prime Time Love has also caused me confusion.

Funny that all of these elusive tracks are from the Voice Of The Heart album. I wish it had more descriptive liner notes (like the subsequent albums, which provided recording dates) -- actually, even Richard's website is kind of vague about the origins of these tracks. (Granted, it was a pretty tumultuous time for him!)

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Hi Gordo, not sure if you remember me. I was also a regular at ran's old carpenters forum. I think it was you that made up that unique Happy Birthday to the tune of Karen saying the words. Was that not you? I seem to remember it was. That was funny. We had some good times back them on that forum. Wow seems like ages ago.

Glad to see you back online here. Voice of the Heart is one of my most favorite C albums. It's funny how it reminds me of just Karen even though it was a C album technically, to me...it just feels like Karen with it being released at a time when our hearts were heavy, with the cover being from her solo sessions...it remains a special album for me.

 

[Harry]

Heh! I still have that "Gordo Productions" Happy Birthday on my hard drive. It's probably been cyled now through at least three computers!

Harry

 

[Calvin R Murty]

I think Rainbow Connection could not have been 1978, but either 1980 or 1981. The Muppet Movie, where that song first appeared (sung by Kermit the frog), was out in 1979 or 1980, so Karen's version could not be before that.

Calvin

 

[Gordo]

Hi, Chris! Nice to hear from you -- I do remember you!

(It's funny, though: I've been lurking here for so long that it feels as though no time has passed for me! Long story short, I'm currently on parental leave with my first child and, being home all day, finally have the time to catch back up on some of my interests.)

Yes, the "Happy Birthday, Marty" production was mine. I spliced it together from the tracks Happy ("happy"), Silent Night ("birth"), I Won't Last A Day Without You ("day"), Close To You ("to you"), Hurting Each Other ("dear"), Man Smart Woman Smarter ("mart-"), and some other song I can't recall ("-y"). Anyhow, for a limited time, I proudly re-present this song over at this link.

(I think I actually recall this project resurfacing as a thread here a couple years back. I think it came up in a discussion about how feasible it would be to "simulate" new Carpenters songs by reworking their existing material. Needless to say, were this ever to happen, I doubt Richard would be beating down my door for help!)

***

Calvin, I think you're definitely right about Rainbow Connection. Having contemporary milestones certainly helps in pinning down some of these dates!

 

[Gordo]

Greg, I forgot to reply to your question about Santa Claus Is Coming To Town. The only version I have is the An Old-Fasioned Christmas one; I believe you're right in that it was redone for that album.

 

[Harry]

Yes, "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town" had the whole middle saxophone part redone for the OLD FASHIONED CHRISTMAS album. Until this past year's Japan SINGLES box, that original 45 version had never appeared on CD before.

Harry

 

[wisejester7]

On the Roland Chayer site there is a clip of Santa Claus Is Coming To Town that includes the sax section. It was completely redone (different) on the album.

 

[Gordo]

Last year, I picked up the Gold album (managed to find it in a Canadian store!) for the sole purpose of having the single version of Solitaire. I can't bring myself to cough up the money for the Japanese singles set, so I'm holding out hope for a North American release -- I'd love to round out my collection with the remaining singles!

 

[newvillefan]

Incidentally, it was also Richard's e-mail that pinned Sailing On The Tide down to 1980 for me.

This confuses me further, because it's well known that 'Sailing On The Tide' was recorded during the Passage sessions, and along with 'You're The One', was one of the outtakes.

Stephen

 

[Harry]

I can't bring myself to cough up the money for the Japanese singles set, so I'm holding out hope for a North American release -- I'd love to round out my collection with the remaining singles!

I started out in that boat too, swearing I wasn't going to order that expensive set - and at the last minute, just as I found out how well it was put together and how authentic it was, I just had to have it.

I have to say I'm not disappointed, nor did I ever regret spending all of that money. But I certainly understand others resistance to such a high price point. Sometimes "real life" just won't permit such extravagance.

Harry

 

[Gordo]

Hey, Stephen!

Yeah, I think Richard's reply to my e-mail has raised more questions than it has answered. I believe my exact wording to him asked for the years in which Karen laid down her lead vocal -- I'm wondering, then, if it's possible that the instrumentals were recorded in the earlier years but the vocal tracks not laid down until the dates in Richard's e-mail?

Needless to say, all this confusion is why I posted this thread in the first place!

***

Harry, the Japanese singles set really does sound like a masterpiece -- I'm sure it's worth every penny! Like you say, the only thing holding me back is economic feasibility!

 

[DJS]

Hi Gordo

You are obviously a die hard Carpenters fan so its a pleasure to reply.

I can help you on the BBC interview, which was indeed recorded in 1981. September to be exact. I have, I believe made reference to this interview in the past, but on which particular subject I forget.

The interview was conducted by the late Ray Moore who was a much loved DJ and broadcaster from the BBC who hosted the early morning show on Radio 2, for many many years.

These were the days when the DJ picked the music and not some programme director, Ray used to play Carpenters songs regularly and was obviously a huge fan.

He was also famous for his celebrity interviews (radio was his medium not television) and he and his long time producer Dennis O'Keefe traveled far and wide to interview the stars of the day.

The financial budget of the BBC has always been mocked, but after Ray suggested a trip to America, the BBC agreed providing he and Dennis could secure 2 major artist interviews that they would make into radio hour long specials interspersed with hit records by the respective artists.

Dennis suggested and secured Tom Jones, through contacts that he had in London and Ray wanted the Carpenters.

After negotiation with the relevant people, Richard and Karen agreed to be interviewed on the Sunday afternoon of Ray's visit.

When Ray learned of his illness, he wrote an autobiography called "Tomorrow is Too Late" and he refers to the interview in the book.

"We were met at the airport by the Carpenters' record company and taken to The Sportsman's Lodge in Hollywood."

The interview was arranged for the following day and Ray wrote

"As we got to the studios where the interviews had been arranged we were introduced to Herb Alpert"

After a brief time with Herb, Ray and Dennis were shown into the Carpenters office at A & M.

On recounting his meeting with Karen and Richard in the book, Ray wrote

"The Carpenters were everything I hoped for and more. Richard, all scrubbed and squeaky clean with the fresh faced college boy look about him and Karen so beautiful with haunted eyes more bewitching in real life than on any television screen. She had a fragile vulnerability about her which made her even more attractive. Tragically her death was only a short time away.
Sitting there chatting to Karen and Richard on that sunny Sunday afternoon was one of the happiest and most relaxed times of my life."

Ray survived Karen by 5 years years but tragically died in 1988 aged 47.

This is the best interview I have ever heard or seen by Karen and Richard, they are in wonderful form and there is plenty of humour included, which is completely natural, no canned laughter like so many of the TV appearances, nothing contrived. This is Karen and Richard as they really were.

This interview was repeated on Radio 2, the week after Karen's death and Ray introduced it with the words ( and I'll remember them for as long as live) "Karen Carpenter, born March 2 March 1950 in New Haven Connecticut, died February 4 1983, in Los Angeles, California. 32 brief years in which that shimmering bell like voice enriched the lives of us all. Back in September 1981, Dennis O;Keefe and I spent a magical afternoon with the Carpenters, recording what was tragically Karen's last major radio interview."

If anybody would be interested to read the entire interview, I would be more than happy to transcribe it for you.

 

[Gordo]

Oh my goodness! Thank you so much, David, for taking the time to provide such an informative reply. It was more than I had hoped for!

Ray's comment about Karen's eyes struck a chord with me. I have a black-and-white close-up of Karen (circa 1975) in my 60s/70s-style den. The photo always gives visitors pause, purely because of Karen's eyes -- they demonstrate the same vulnerability that comes through in her singing...

 

[wisejester7]

DJS and Gordo ...

DJS, could you please transcribe the radio interview or point us in the direction where it can be found?

Gordo, is it possible to post the Karen picture you speak of somewhere?

 

[DJS]

It'll be my pleasure to relisten to this interview and post it - I'll do this over the weekend.

 

[Gordo]

Wow, thanks, David!

As for the picture, I believe it's from the Horizon sessions. It's a close-up of Karen's face that I found online (one such copy is at http://www.carpentersconnection.com). Cropped to 8x10", it focuses on Karen's face -- and as I say, I also chose to convert it to grayscale.

 

[Chris_Sydney]

David, I look forward to reading the interview!


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