🎤 Interview Richard Carpenter Interview 2014
- Thread starter Chris May
- Start date
Well, all I can say is I listened non-stop to the cassette of the solo album in the car when it was released, and I couldn't get enough of it. And all of us knew 6 of the tracks from 'Lovelines' and the boxed set prior to the album's eventual release. But it's quite a fun listen from start to finish, at least to my ears.
In fact, I thought it was better as an album than anything they'd released since 1976. It's entertaining from start to finish. 'Make Believe It's Your First Time' is way up there on any serious review of Karen's final vocal performances. Not the Lawrence Welk version from 'Voice of the Heart'.
'Made In America' is painful in comparison. And the only track that holds up to the best of the Carpenters from MIA is 'Touch Me When We're Dancing'.
In fact, I thought it was better as an album than anything they'd released since 1976. It's entertaining from start to finish. 'Make Believe It's Your First Time' is way up there on any serious review of Karen's final vocal performances. Not the Lawrence Welk version from 'Voice of the Heart'.
'Made In America' is painful in comparison. And the only track that holds up to the best of the Carpenters from MIA is 'Touch Me When We're Dancing'.
Karen should've recorded the Phyllis Hyman/Michael Henderson track "We Both Need Each Other" as a duet with Richard for her solo album. Indeed,they both needed each other.Karen had no success without Richard-and Richard had no success without Karen. The combination was greater than the sum of it's parts.
It's not important how current or trendy Karen's album might have sounded in 1980-what's important is how is that album(or any album) going to sound in twenty or thirty years?
There are several rock-oriented tracks on the album,whatever style or degree of rock they may be:"Still In Love","All Because","Still Crazy","Making Love".
You hit the nail on the head. It absolutely was a dated commercial effort & well beneath someone of her talent.That material wasn't good enough for Karen.
It's possible that one or two tracks might have gotten some airplay & chart action in 1980-but it wouldn't have mattered.Those hit singles would've disappeared from top-40 radio within a few months,the album would've been seriously dated by 1981-and it probably would've been out-of-print by 1985.
It's not important how current or trendy Karen's album might have sounded in 1980-what's important is how is that album(or any album) going to sound in twenty or thirty years?
Murray
Well-Known Member
You're absolutely right mr J. It's been over thirty years since Karen recorded her solo album, and it still sounds pretty damn good!
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
The ironic thing is, she chose all the material herself personally...
. It was said above that the material selection was short sighted of Phil but as I see it, his view was that this was Karen's album to make however she chose and his job as producer was to help her realise that goal in the best way he could. I also think you have to put this whole episode into the context of the time - Karen wanted something that would be hip and contemporary, not timeless (hence her saying she wanted to record material like Donna Summer was putting out around this time).Sure, Karen's solo album has a few tracks that sound dated. That being said, let's get real here. 'Sing' and 'Top of the World' and many other Carpenters songs sound very '70's and very dated. That's what happens when 30-40 + years have passed. LOL>> It's not just Karen's solo songs.
Also, some of the trademark Carpenters 'oohs and aahs' haven't aged well, either. It's a fact, and it ain't fair to pick on Karen's solo tunes alone. But, to me, that's what makes her output so wonderful. A lot of it is timeless....including the solo stuff. And a lot of it is dated. The same can be applied to the Beatles, Beach Boys and many other legendary acts. Karen's charm cuts through it all, solo or not.
Also, some of the trademark Carpenters 'oohs and aahs' haven't aged well, either. It's a fact, and it ain't fair to pick on Karen's solo tunes alone. But, to me, that's what makes her output so wonderful. A lot of it is timeless....including the solo stuff. And a lot of it is dated. The same can be applied to the Beatles, Beach Boys and many other legendary acts. Karen's charm cuts through it all, solo or not.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
It would have mattered to Karen...maybe the only person it should have mattered...I would like to think she would have been ecstatic, joyful and over the moon...saying look look my songs charted and got airplay. Then on top of that she would have received huge responses from fans in letters or in person about how much they liked the album and with some marketing fans would have been around to tell her so. It only makes sense. It would have been what every artist dreams of....getting that "love" reaction from the fan base that their work is appreciated and loved.
So would you say the same for Richard's solo album, "Time"? "Say Yeah" how is that any worse than any of Karen's solo cuts?
For me...yes his album is dated sounding and has not held up well in 20 or 30 yrs.
I can honestly say that I can listen to Karen's album and it just makes me smile and has rhythm and beat that gets my head bobbing and toes tapping...this is not just emotional stuff cause I love the album it's real, felt that way when released and feel that way now. For me, that says something.
Phil Ramone's production style was too brash for Karen-he was used to working with pop/rock acts like Paul Simon & Billy Joel.He probably encouraged Karen to record the type of material that he was producing for his other artists.The ironic thing is, she chose all the material herself personally...
I absolutely believe that Quincy Jones could've made an incredible album with Karen.It was the mismatch between artist and producer that was the real downfall with Karen's album. Quincy's classy Jazz/R&B production style would've been more well-suited for Karen.
Richard's solo album is also dated as well-but the bigger problem is the material was too contemporary for Richard-just like much of the material on Karen's album was too contemporary for her.
Some Carpenters material most definitely is dated-particularly many of the 70's hit singles.But,thankfully,that represents only a small portion of their recorded output.And,today,Karen is more famous for her Christmas,standard & jazz-oriented recordings-rather than most of her 70's hit singles.
Somebody mentioned on another post that they heard the "Karen/Ella" medley recently on a jazz station in Florida.When was the last time anybody heard "Postman", "Hush" or "Occupants" on the radio?
I guess it depends where you are in the world. Although I would agree that the Carpenters' general output doesn't have as high a profile in the US as their huge success should perhaps warrant and it's the Christmas album that gets most of the attention nowadays (although not the standards - I doubt many non-fans would be familiar with these), in the UK (where they were big but not as big as they were in the US), the singles still get a good amount of airplay on some national stations. I've heard 'Postman' numerous times on the radio and even 'Occupants' every now and then, probably because it was a Top 10 hit over here. Have to confess that I've never heard 'Hush' get played though!
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Gee, I have never thought of Top of The World as 'dated'.
The feeling I get regarding its not being played over the airwaves(today) is that (as I have read elsewhere) the song was
over-played during the 1970s and many developed anathema toward it because of the constant (then) airplay.
Apparently, folks just got sick of hearing it all the time! (Well, it did go to #1 after-all).
If Carpenters 'hits' are dated-- then so are those of their peers dated, and even more so with those peers!
I personally feel the lack of current airplay has nothing to do with the music being 'dated'--that it's still the stigma, image, problem.
Carpenters music ,on the whole, stands the test of time very well--especially when compared to typical 1970s fare.
The feeling I get regarding its not being played over the airwaves(today) is that (as I have read elsewhere) the song was
over-played during the 1970s and many developed anathema toward it because of the constant (then) airplay.
Apparently, folks just got sick of hearing it all the time! (Well, it did go to #1 after-all).
If Carpenters 'hits' are dated-- then so are those of their peers dated, and even more so with those peers!
I personally feel the lack of current airplay has nothing to do with the music being 'dated'--that it's still the stigma, image, problem.
Carpenters music ,on the whole, stands the test of time very well--especially when compared to typical 1970s fare.
Carpenters don't get played on mainstream radio for one reason and one reason only - they don't test well. If they don't pass the test, they don't get played. It's no more complicated than that.
Put a bunch of people in an auditorium and have them listen to 15-second hooks of songs and you'll get a sizable number who think they can't stand Carpenters. They're looking for stuff to "hate" and Carpenters are still an easy target.
Now add to the fact that radio stations are testing younger and younger audiences all the time. So now you get a large percentage of people who might not mind what's being played by Carpenters, but they're also totally unfamiliar with it. And familiarity is another qualification in these tests. Why are they unfamiliar? It's a Catch-22 situation - because the radio they grew up with never played Carpenters!
Harry
Put a bunch of people in an auditorium and have them listen to 15-second hooks of songs and you'll get a sizable number who think they can't stand Carpenters. They're looking for stuff to "hate" and Carpenters are still an easy target.
Now add to the fact that radio stations are testing younger and younger audiences all the time. So now you get a large percentage of people who might not mind what's being played by Carpenters, but they're also totally unfamiliar with it. And familiarity is another qualification in these tests. Why are they unfamiliar? It's a Catch-22 situation - because the radio they grew up with never played Carpenters!
Harry
GDBY2LV
Well-Known Member
That's so true. I had to give my favorite singer as a password when I got my iPhone and I told the young Hispanic guy, about 25, Karen Carpenter. He said, "who is that?" I tries to explain with no suceess, he was clueless. I only here their music on Music of Your Life type stations and sometimes on our local little pirate station here KJ102.1 when they play 70's stuff. They play a large amount of the hits, but never There's A Kind Of Hush, like so many say.
song4u
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure which is worse; when young people say "who is that?" or when they say "Ya, my grandma listens to them." Ouch.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Yes, unfortunately sad, but true, Carpenters are an easy target.
That being said, my younger (20s) relatives actually like Carpenters music (and think it rather interesting --my
devotion to the duo and their music.)
On the flip side, it's the folks closer my age (50s) who seem to have developed a problem with the music.
That being said, my younger (20s) relatives actually like Carpenters music (and think it rather interesting --my
devotion to the duo and their music.)
On the flip side, it's the folks closer my age (50s) who seem to have developed a problem with the music.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
I would even contend that the manner in which Universal Music Group has (mis)handled marketing of the back-catalogue
throughout their tenure of ownership has skewered the entire enterprise for Carpenters music.
To have ever let a monster seller like Singles 69-73 go out of print is ridiculous. That album is by far the most well known
amongst the public at large.
No posters in the UK International offices (per Coleman Bio) to promote the artists on their roster.
Richard and Karen treated like caricatures of musicians, instead of being glorified , by the record company(-ies?).
I have never, and will never, cower from professing my adoration of Carpenters to all whom I come into contact with, period.
UMG could have taken that stance long ago.
throughout their tenure of ownership has skewered the entire enterprise for Carpenters music.
To have ever let a monster seller like Singles 69-73 go out of print is ridiculous. That album is by far the most well known
amongst the public at large.
No posters in the UK International offices (per Coleman Bio) to promote the artists on their roster.
Richard and Karen treated like caricatures of musicians, instead of being glorified , by the record company(-ies?).
I have never, and will never, cower from professing my adoration of Carpenters to all whom I come into contact with, period.
UMG could have taken that stance long ago.
You know what I think part of the problem is? It's that since about the mid-60s, too many people have believed that for music to be considered "great", it has to somehow contain an element of counter-culture.
To be sure, in many cases, that is indeed true. However, that DOESN'T necessarily mean if music - and the artist's image that goes along with it - is not pushing any social / political / cultural / musical boundaries (and hence deemed 'uncool'), that it automatically fails in the "greatness" test.
To my mind, Karen summed it up perfectly when expressing her and Richard's frustration, with the rhetorical question: "What's wrong with being a straight-ahead American??".
Straight-ahead. What does that mean? Honesty, integrity, capacity for hard-work, perseverance, optimism, respectfulness, appreciation, acceptance, faith (within and outside of one's self), empathy, substance over style, upholding family values, pride balanced with humility....
Both Richard and Karen between them shared these personal characteristics, which may be seen as a little square. But to call their music 'square' (easy on the ear, yet exemplifying some of the most deceptively sophisticated music ever released) is just displaying one's musical ignorance. Thankfully, the silent majority who supported them - straight-ahead Americans - got it right.
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GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
It is of some interest to note that outside of their home country (USA) Carpenters
are treated with reverence in places such as Japan, China, Philippines, to name but a few.
If one looks at the statistics, such adoration came from those other countries after their popularity
waned in America.
1970-1975 they were tops in America (Didn't they win the first American Music Award for 1974?)
1975 onward in UK
1975 and onward in Japan
Made in America and Passage were hits in UK.
So, in terms of geography,also, Carpenters are thought of,perceived, differently in other cultures.
are treated with reverence in places such as Japan, China, Philippines, to name but a few.
If one looks at the statistics, such adoration came from those other countries after their popularity
waned in America.
1970-1975 they were tops in America (Didn't they win the first American Music Award for 1974?)
1975 onward in UK
1975 and onward in Japan
Made in America and Passage were hits in UK.
So, in terms of geography,also, Carpenters are thought of,perceived, differently in other cultures.
song4u
Well-Known Member
On another artist forum, under their "Discussion of other artists" category of Carpenters, I mentioned that it was considered square and uncool to be a Carpenters fan back in the day because of their image. A fan from Europe thought it was ironic that the nation that gave us Donny and the Osmonds thought the Carpenters were square. Fans in other countries don't seem to get why they didn't get the respect they deserved in the U.S. I don't either.
Actually,Universal did a pretty good job of marketing K&R's catalog: they issued two definitive double-disc anthologies,the Essential Collection boxed set,and "As Time Goes By"-as well as a few single disc compilations.
The Singles 1969-1973 stopped selling by the late 90's.Universal didn't let it go out-0f-print,Yesterday Once More and Love Songs put The Singles out-of-print. While it was a big seller back in the seventies,it was the only compilation available until 1985.And sales dropped dramatically,after Yesterday Once More was released.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Mr. J. , I will acquiesce ,at least partially, with your assessment regarding my harshness toward marketing by UMG.
Perhaps it is not lack of marketing, but mis-handling/marketing of their entire output. I truly want to emphasize the total musical output.
UMG did promote toward worldwide markets (particularly Japan) , but I still believe the USA market barely registers as promotion worthy.
Singles 1969-1973 (7.5x ) certified platinum April 16,1998
( UMG Purchased Polygram in 1998)
Love Songs Released March 24,1998 and Gold June 12,2000 (Copies sold 675,000)
Yesterday Once More Released April 28,1985 Gold April 16,1998 (2.3x platinum)
Gold Released February 2004 (525,000 sold)
Perhaps I am not stressing the point I intended to emphasize: Studio Albums by the duo were/are given scant mention in deference to compilations.
The Singles 1969-1973 is The LP that the general public remembers as Carpenters--those songs are what the general public remembers.
Too much of the general public perceives Carpenters as only 'the hits' packages which have been re-invented and re-released.
And, of course, that's how Carpenters are marketed.
I do not believe that 40/40 (Copies sold 30,000) or As Time Goes By (30,000) received much attention in the USA.
Richard was on QVC for 40/40 promotion in USA, but in the UK they got an entire TV Celebration (produced by UMG)
The Philippines also had an entire program devoted to Carpenters.
Most folks, in general ,in the US, they know Close To You and We've Only Just Begun; they do not know Rainbow Connection or album cuts.
Christmas Portrait, even though it sells every year, it should never be out of the top 20 at Christmas time.
Lack of Promotion (?)
That Christmas album, above all should receive heavy promotion every year (well, it irks me that it musters only #114 on the charts).
And, lets not forget, even Herb Alpert sued UMG, and won, because they broke a clause in the contract pertaining to A&M Records.
So, please forgive my tirade, but I contend that Something is not right.
Perhaps it is not lack of marketing, but mis-handling/marketing of their entire output. I truly want to emphasize the total musical output.
UMG did promote toward worldwide markets (particularly Japan) , but I still believe the USA market barely registers as promotion worthy.
Singles 1969-1973 (7.5x ) certified platinum April 16,1998
( UMG Purchased Polygram in 1998)
Love Songs Released March 24,1998 and Gold June 12,2000 (Copies sold 675,000)
Yesterday Once More Released April 28,1985 Gold April 16,1998 (2.3x platinum)
Gold Released February 2004 (525,000 sold)
Perhaps I am not stressing the point I intended to emphasize: Studio Albums by the duo were/are given scant mention in deference to compilations.
The Singles 1969-1973 is The LP that the general public remembers as Carpenters--those songs are what the general public remembers.
Too much of the general public perceives Carpenters as only 'the hits' packages which have been re-invented and re-released.
And, of course, that's how Carpenters are marketed.
I do not believe that 40/40 (Copies sold 30,000) or As Time Goes By (30,000) received much attention in the USA.
Richard was on QVC for 40/40 promotion in USA, but in the UK they got an entire TV Celebration (produced by UMG)
The Philippines also had an entire program devoted to Carpenters.
Most folks, in general ,in the US, they know Close To You and We've Only Just Begun; they do not know Rainbow Connection or album cuts.
Christmas Portrait, even though it sells every year, it should never be out of the top 20 at Christmas time.
Lack of Promotion (?)
That Christmas album, above all should receive heavy promotion every year (well, it irks me that it musters only #114 on the charts).
And, lets not forget, even Herb Alpert sued UMG, and won, because they broke a clause in the contract pertaining to A&M Records.
So, please forgive my tirade, but I contend that Something is not right.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Forgot to mention, my sales figures ensue from this site:
http://www.greasylake.org/the-circu...ters-and-mannheim-steamrollerusa-album-sales/
http://www.greasylake.org/the-circu...ters-and-mannheim-steamrollerusa-album-sales/
I am a proud American and a proud music fan, but sadly, this situation is not isolated to the Carpenters...many American artists from the past few decades have much bigger and more vocal followings outside of the US. Supertramp and Toto are just the first two examples that come to mind - in Europe and Scandinavia they still play stadiums and arenas, but if they play the States at all, they do 500-seat venues and are treated like oldies acts and mocked as dreadfully unhip. It's a shame but the Carpenters are not the only artists treated this way.....
