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Official Review Rise [Herb Alpert]

Discussion in 'The Beat of The Brass: Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass' started by Rudy, Sep 8, 2016.

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  1. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin Thread Starter

    US
    Herb Alpert
    RISE
    HRB-075

    [​IMG]
    Released 1979 (peaked #3 on jazz charts)

    Format: Vinyl (including MSFL)/8-Track/Cassette/CD

    Produced by Herb Alpert and Randy Badazz
    Associate Producer: Andy Armer

    Songs:
    • 1. 1980 (Herb Alpert) - 2:25
      2. Rise (Andy Armer/Randy Badazz) - 7:37
      3. Behind The Rain (Herb Alpert) - 5:34
      4. Rotation (Andy Armer/Randy Badazz) - 5:12
      5. Street Life (Joe Sample/Will Jennings) - 5:01
      6. Love Is (Bill Withers/Paul Smith) - 4:28
      7. Angelina (Pete Sinfield/Gary Brooker) - 4:13
      8. Aranjuez (Mon Amour) (Joaquin Rodrigo) - 6:42

    Musicians:
    Herb Alpert - Trumpet, Flugelhorn, Vocals
    Steve Schaeffer - Drums and Percussion
    Harvey Mason - Drums
    Louis Johnson - Bass (6)
    Abe Laboriel - Bass, Acoustic Guitar (8 )
    Jerry Knight - Bass (8 )
    James Jamerson, Jr. - Bass
    Tim May - Guitar
    Chris Pinnick - Guitar
    Carlos Rios - Guitar
    Manolo Badrena - Percussion
    Julius Wechter - Marimba
    Andy Armer - Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Clavinet and Synthesizers
    Joe Sample - Acoustic Piano
    Jay Dee Maness - Slide Steel Guitar (7)
    Randy Badazz - Percussion, Tavia, Moog Drums and Insanities
    Mike Lang - Fender Rhodes Piano
    Michel Colombier - Piano (1, 8 ), Synthesized Bass (1)
    Emil Richards - Percussion (8 )
    John Bergamo - Percussion (8 )
    Tom Tedesco - Lute (8 )
    Tom Scott - Lyricon (8 )
    Pete Jolly - Accordion (8 )
    Bob Magnusson - Acoustic Bass (1)
    Bob Findley - Trumpet (1)
    William Reichenbach - Alto Trombone (1)
    Michael Boddicker - Synthesizer Programming (1)

    Orchestrations on "Aranjuez" - Herb Alpert, Michel Colombier & Gene Page
    Concertmaster: Harry Bluestone

    Orchestrations on "1980" - Herb Alpert & Michel Colombier

    Orchestrations on "Behind The Rain" & "Street Life" - Tom-Tom 84
    Concertmaster: Paul Shure
    String Contractor: Ben Barrett

    Musicians on "Rise" (Thank You - Herb Alpert)
    Guitar: Tim May, Chris Pinnick
    Drums: Steve Schaeffer
    Bass: Abe Laboriel
    Piano: Mike Lang
    Fender Rhodes: Andy Armer
    Marimba: Julius Wechter
    Engineer: Don Hahn

    Engineers: Don Hahn on "1980", "Rise" and "Aranjuez"
    Assisted by: Don Kolden
    All other tunes Engineered by: Mark Smith
    Assisted by: Skip Cottrell and Steve Katz
    Re-mixed by Don Hahn
    Recorded at A&M Recording Studios, Studio D, Hollywood, CA
    Mastered by: Bernie Grundman

    All tunes except "1980" were recorded on the 3M-32 track digital machine and transferred to analog for editing.

    Art Direction - Roland Young
    Design - Amy Nagasawa
    Photography - Barry McKinley
     
  2. I'm detecting quite a big difference in the three iterations of the album RISE on compact disc, and the good news is that the new one from Herb Alpert Presents is perfect.

    - The old A&M CD was great in its day, but today it sounds a little anemic. As one of the earliest CDs, it was probably mastered from the original LP master.

    - The Shout Factory disc was also remastered by Bernie Grundman, but suffers from a bit of compression/brickwalling, which reduces the dynamic range of the audio. Though is has bonus tracks, it also changed the song order for that release.

    - The new Herb Alpert Presents gets the sonics right. Mr. Grundman has toned down the compression to a more normal level. In other words, you can turn this one up without it offending your ears. And the track order is back to the way it originally appeared on LP back in 1979. THIS is the one you'll want in your collection!
     
    Bobberman likes this.
  3. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin Thread Starter

    US
    I have the new HAP vinyl on the way. It will be interesting to compare to the A&M Audiophile vinyl release. I never got the Mobile Fidelity cut of this but given their occasionally strange mastering on those early-era LPs, I'm not exactly looking to find one.
     
  4. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin Thread Starter

    US
    Vinyl pr0n... :wink:

    IMG_20160926_173507-01.jpeg

    Never thought you'd see"Rise" with the tan label, did ya? Superb mastering by the great Bernie Grundman.
     
    toeknee4bz and Bobberman like this.
  5. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    Wow That gives one an idea how the Rise Label would have looked Liked had A&M stayed with the Tan/Ochre label.
     
  6. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin Thread Starter

    US
    Action shot. :wink: And actually a bit posed since I normally do not play records without the weight on the label...
     
    Bobberman likes this.
  7. Leo Langston

    Leo Langston New Member

    Is there a big difference in the mixing between the LP and CDs or what you hear on the radio these days. I just scored the RISE LP at my local half price book store today for $6.00 and it plays fine, no scratches but the sound is interesting. Now please no flames but I play this LP on my old '68 Zenith console stereo that I have refurbished for my old LPs. The bass/percussion tracks were very clean and sounded like they were playing right next to me on "Rise" But when Herb comes in with the trumpet melody it sounds like he is down the hall playing in a closet. You can hear the high notes and nothing is muffled or garbled but I would have expected to hear him loud and up front and center like my Doc Severinson or Al Hirt records sound like. Herb almost sounds like the accompaniment rather than the main melody. The folks clapping and playing that clip clop device sound like they are sitting right next to me. I know the Rise I hear on the radio has the trumpet much louder than the accompanying bass/percussion lines. I know it could be the speakers,etc but I would think it would effect everything endnote just the trumpet melody. I will try and get a digital version and see how it sounds.
     
  8. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin Thread Starter

    US
    If you have one of the original issue LPs from the 80s, it is tonally not at all different than the CD that was reissued in the 80s a few years later. The mix on that album does have the rhythmic elements pushed to the forefront somewhat (being that it is more of a funk/R&B type of groove as opposed to what a typical jazz/instrumental recording might sound like), so you will hear the bass parts pronounced more, along with the brighter sound of percussion and handclaps that are also higher in the mix, typical of that style of music. Herb's horn also has a lot of reverb on it.

    However (and with no intensions on my part to flame), but console speakers are going to be working at a disadvantage. Rather than having true deep bass, they have more of a mid-bass hump, since really low bass would cause the turntable to mistrack at louder volumes, even with the turntable partly isolated on its mounting springs. My guess is that if the Zenith is like the consoles my parents had, that hump in the mid bass will make the midrange sound somewhat recessed, which is why Herb sounds like he's playing a bit down the hall as opposed to sounding more like he's in the room. Our older Magnavox did not have the brightest highs on it (I found it a bit dull, in fact), but your Zenith may be a bit brighter and accentuating the percussion and handclaps.

    Or to put it another way, it's not that Herb is too quiet, it's that the mid bass and percussion may be too high in level, which is partly pushing the trumpet more into the background.

    I don't know if the console would have a headphone jack or not. Our '69-era Magnavox didn't, but my father bought an accessory from Lafayette Electronics (jeez, that dates a person :laugh: ) that connected to the external speaker screws on the back, so we could plug in headphones. At some point in the mid 70s we got a smaller Magnavox console and it had the headphone jack. Point is, through headphones, you would likely hear a different tonal balance, and that may put Herb more in the foreground as you might have been expecting.

    That was the issue with consoles, however. I still think they are a neat part of audio history! And the cabinetry was often a work of art itself. Yet they were designed not so much for listening accuracy as they were for 1) convenience and 2) aesthetics. Mrs. Homeowner often would not approve of a big pair of speakers and shelves with audio components, but she would have no major objection over a piece of furniture which played music, keeping everything neatly hidden until it was time to be used. So obviously, there were tradeoffs. The components inside had to cost less, or else the console would have been outrageously high in price, and nobody would buy it. Speakers could not be large, but they had to sound large or at least, fill the room with sound. And the issue with turntable feedback meant that the console could not have true, really deep bass or it would cause all sorts of problems. And it was not uncommon to "voice" a speaker system to accentuate different frequencies to make it sound larger and/or "better" to the average buyer.

    There are still people out there who collect and restore those old consoles, from stripping and refinishing the cabinetry to rebuilding the amplifier with newer components. I also saw a retro-styled DIY console someone made out of an IKEA Expedit, hiding everything behind doors. Very neat!
     
    Bobberman likes this.
  9. Just a quick thought: does this console have any kind of "stereo-expanding" setting? If that were the case, it could explain why the hard left channel and hard right channel stuff (percussion, clapping, etc.) would be loud while muffling center channel information like Herb's horn.

    To sample this effect, for anyone with Windows Media Player, while in the "Now playing" mode (where Visualization occur), right click the background and look for Enhancements > SRS Wow Effects.

    When the box comes up, turn effects on. There are two sliders. The left is called "Tru Bass" which will make your sound thumpier. On the right is the "Wow" effect. As you slide that one all the way to the right, supposedly you're expanding the stereo, the way a cheap boombox used to. In that case, Herb's trumpet will sound like he's "down the hall."

    Turn it all off, and Herb's front and center where he needs to be.
     
  10. Never had a "console" and -by the sound of it- have NO intention of getting one to "wax poetic" about...either(!).
     
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