Road Ode- More Like It?
- Thread starter Mark-T
- Start date
Geographer
Well-Known Member
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Speaking of "more like it" did Dan Woodhams and Gary Sims write any other songs ?
Speaking of career moves, we can pick on Sherwin Bash all we want, but even Richard Carpenter is
on camera as saying they never questioned the touring-itinerary at the time.
Also, Weintraub masterminded that 1981 European promotional tour--truly ridiculous, given
Karen's state of health at the time.
Speaking of career moves, we can pick on Sherwin Bash all we want, but even Richard Carpenter is
on camera as saying they never questioned the touring-itinerary at the time.
Also, Weintraub masterminded that 1981 European promotional tour--truly ridiculous, given
Karen's state of health at the time.
It just infuriates me that they spent so much time touring and not more in the studio. Even if Karen was alive and well today I still wish that was the case. When you have that voice in it’s absolute prime you have to get as much out of it as you can, put it on tape as much as possible so more of it will live forever.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
^^I am as much a "fan" as anybody for their "recorded" output....
Be that as it may, it was VITAL that they tour to promote their product and their sound.
You DO NOT sell records without touring. To see the duo and to hear Karen "LIVE" was extremely VITAL to their continued success,
otherwise their LEGACY would not be nearly as strong: no one would remember if Karen was as vocally great "LIVE"
or always lip-syncing (as on those TV shows). In fact, it is only after they drastically reduced tour schedule
and cut radio interviews that SALES took a downturn in the USA.
The heaviest touring was done while they were still in their prime and in their YOUTH.
So, this rubbish about too much touring is simply that--rubbish.
I would have given anything to attend a concert.
I already have heard everything "recorded"....I want a LIVE experience. That means TOURING.
Be that as it may, it was VITAL that they tour to promote their product and their sound.
You DO NOT sell records without touring. To see the duo and to hear Karen "LIVE" was extremely VITAL to their continued success,
otherwise their LEGACY would not be nearly as strong: no one would remember if Karen was as vocally great "LIVE"
or always lip-syncing (as on those TV shows). In fact, it is only after they drastically reduced tour schedule
and cut radio interviews that SALES took a downturn in the USA.
The heaviest touring was done while they were still in their prime and in their YOUTH.
So, this rubbish about too much touring is simply that--rubbish.
I would have given anything to attend a concert.
I already have heard everything "recorded"....I want a LIVE experience. That means TOURING.
Just because they were young doesn’t mean they had a very long term stamina for it, even if their health hadn’t generally frayed. It’s going to eat away at certain people at a certain point. Karen nearly always sounded better in the studio, by that I mean full length songs played, being able to get into a song in a way where her phrasing isn’t rushed because of a need to keep an immediate audiences connection, Richard’s complex, precise arrangements and overdubs you can’t duplicate on a stage, weaker, obviously not intimate sound quality, etc. Richard himself stated that they were always a studio group at their core, not a live one, likely because he took pride in the meticulous musical framing he constructed around Karen and her measured voice was best experienced when she was able to tell a story with the lyrics while being isolated from the world.
Carpe diem
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with GaryAlan in his comment above. Back in the Carpenters heyday, bands had to tour to promote their albums. It was a given...
The only exception seems to have been The Beatles who walked off the stage at Candlestick Park in 1966 and straight into the studio for good. And their popularity and record sales only got stronger.
The only exception seems to have been The Beatles who walked off the stage at Candlestick Park in 1966 and straight into the studio for good. And their popularity and record sales only got stronger.
Ted Etheridge
Well-Known Member
y, post: 200913, member: 4"]
They sure did. My first concert was in 1972 when the advertised show sold out quickly and they rushed to add a second - at 11:30 at night!
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They sure did. My first concert was in 1972 when the advertised show sold out quickly and they rushed to add a second - at 11:30 at night!
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Ted Etheridge
Well-Known Member
Hey, that was my first show at ECU's Minges Colosseum In Greenville NC I think April 13 th. I was only five years old and obviouly my first and only show, And when I say first, it was my first concert ever. I'd probably drop some Benjamins to have that on disc, My memories are so vague it's hard to believe I shared the same air with the best singer to ever grace a microphone. I eventually developed production skills and it turned out to me my living all because Carpenters!!! Thanks Richard and Karen plus all the other dedicated staff for changing my life. My vinyl and CD collection has to be one of my most cherished. I actually landed back in earlier nineties, I landed a sealed copy of offering. I think I got it for like $150. Good price for a never played LP. I love this site as it helps me to bring attention to things I may have missed though the years Good Times indeed
There are examples of bands that did not tour.... one of the most famous is probably The Alan Parsons Project, which never toured during their heyday (mid 70s to mid 80s). But touring was an important part of the package for sure.
It's even more important today. In fact I wonder how their "sound" would have differed if they were a today artist rather than a '70s artist?
But with social media and videos and such to promote I would think that touring is much less essential to record sales today, wouldn’t it?
Carpe diem
Well-Known Member
Murray
Well-Known Member
But it's not primarily about record sales anymore. Sales of CDs have fallen off a cliff, and sales of digital files have fallen even more. The only format which is increasing in sales is vinyl LPs, but that is still a very small, niche market. The majority of music (especially among younger generations) is consumed via streaming, and it takes a heck of a lot of streams before an artist actually makes any money. More than ever, touring, and merchandise sales at concerts, is where artists make the majority of their income. Why do you think so many artists let you listen to their music (even complete albums) for free on places like YouTube? To promote their live shows.
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Well it was just about a week later at the Philadelphia concert. Here's "Help" recorded live at that concert at the Academy Of Music (11:30 show!)
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Love this live version but why did they always perform live stuff so fast and speed up the song so much? I feel like there rushing to get through it.
Hadn’t thought about that. I have no musical talent and I’m kind of glad I don’t because I’d hate to tour and perform live non-stop and have to make up for all the sale loss on albums. It’s almost like you can’t be an introverted singer today who’d prefer to just record because you wouldn’t have a commercially viable career.
tomswift2002
Well-Known Member
It’s also why nowadays you see so many older artists re-recording or recording live concerts and releasing them on CDs or compilations or streaming, as they can get a higher royalty cut on their new recordings, but their original record company only wants to stick to the royalty rate in the original contract from whenever (which in, say, 1970 a royalty rate of one-fifth of a cent for 45 copy sold would pay more than it would today).
David A
Well-Known Member
I disagree, specific to the Carpenters. Two reasons:
1) Far too many people at the time who knew the Carpenters, as well as many after Karen's passing, including John Bettis and Richard himself, have all stated that the volume of touring they did in the first few years of their success was insane. Yes, touring is great for record sales and staying in touch with your record-buying fans, but by many first-hand accounts by those who would know, they toured way too much.
2) The fact that Karen physically fell apart by 1974 is a fact. One can argue that it was as much other issues as touring, but what does that matter? Bottom line, the stress of touring put her in the hospital. Hence - too much touring.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Karen was in fine form in 1974 - it wasn’t until late 1975 that things started to go wrong.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
David A., please read the entire Rolling Stone article, you will find that there were many other things bothering the duo
and these had nothing to do with touring.
Stephen is absolutely correct, Karen's dramatic health decline started sometime in 1975, not 1974.
For example, she appears beautiful and healthy in the Perry Como Christmas special.
August 1976 People Mag: " But they have toured as many as 250 days a year along the way, and their lives were not as silky or upbeat as their art. They were hardly immune from the debilitating, disorienting effects of the road. “Several years went by,” as Richard put it, “and we lost contact with any personal life—it all become professional, and we were losing our identity.” “It was sickening,” adds Karen.
“Suddenly it wasn’t fun anymore.” Last year it finally all got to her.
Source: people.com/archive/cover-story-brother-sister-act-vol-6-no-5/
July 1974, Rolling Stone:
What would happen if the group took things at a slower pace?
“I don’t know,” he said (RC) as if he had never given it thought. “It wouldn’t affect record sales or anything.
The part we’d have to cut down – which we are, bein’ we cut the summer four – is the concerts.
We can’t cut down on recording. We only come out with one album a year anyway, so . . . That’s what it would have to be."
Source: The Carpenters: Up From Downey
and these had nothing to do with touring.
Stephen is absolutely correct, Karen's dramatic health decline started sometime in 1975, not 1974.
For example, she appears beautiful and healthy in the Perry Como Christmas special.
August 1976 People Mag: " But they have toured as many as 250 days a year along the way, and their lives were not as silky or upbeat as their art. They were hardly immune from the debilitating, disorienting effects of the road. “Several years went by,” as Richard put it, “and we lost contact with any personal life—it all become professional, and we were losing our identity.” “It was sickening,” adds Karen.
“Suddenly it wasn’t fun anymore.” Last year it finally all got to her.
Source: people.com/archive/cover-story-brother-sister-act-vol-6-no-5/
July 1974, Rolling Stone:
What would happen if the group took things at a slower pace?
“I don’t know,” he said (RC) as if he had never given it thought. “It wouldn’t affect record sales or anything.
The part we’d have to cut down – which we are, bein’ we cut the summer four – is the concerts.
We can’t cut down on recording. We only come out with one album a year anyway, so . . . That’s what it would have to be."
Source: The Carpenters: Up From Downey
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David A
Well-Known Member
Yes, it was 1975 that tours were cancelled. Off by a year, my bad.
David A
Well-Known Member
Being a year early on my analysis has been acknowledged. 1975 is when tours were cancelled.
As to your point re: the RS article and your quotes, it supports and confirms my point. I reiterate that in too many cases to cite, people who knew them, Richard and Karen themselves, in virtually any documentary I have seen about them, it is emphasized that they "toured way too much". I don't think think this is factually disputable. The fact that there were other factors at play changes nothing; they should not have been touring at the grueling pace they had set for several years.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
So, let us assume they started heavily touring in 1970. Karen was 20 years old, Richard was four years older.
So, I am to believe that two healthy 20-somethings were not capable of that touring schedule ?
Spin it any way you want, I do not believe it. There is a 1975 Melody Maker article (I will locate it)
where Richard delights in saying how he loves to perform and the absurd amount of money they were paid for touring.
It is only AFTER karen got ill that the touring was brought up as a defining factor.
Before she got ill, there were other factors more prevalent.
And, it is my opinion that it is disputable.
So, I am to believe that two healthy 20-somethings were not capable of that touring schedule ?
Spin it any way you want, I do not believe it. There is a 1975 Melody Maker article (I will locate it)
where Richard delights in saying how he loves to perform and the absurd amount of money they were paid for touring.
It is only AFTER karen got ill that the touring was brought up as a defining factor.
Before she got ill, there were other factors more prevalent.
And, it is my opinion that it is disputable.
