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Official Review [Single]: 20. "I NEED TO BE IN LOVE"/"SANDY" (1828-S)

Which side is your favorite?

  • Side A: "I Need To Be In Love"

    Votes: 34 77.3%
  • Side B: "Sandy"

    Votes: 10 22.7%

  • Total voters
    44

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever asked Richard Carpenter
why they incorporated the choir into this song, I Need To Be In Love ?
Inquiring minds would like to know.....
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. The inclusion of the choir causes exactly the same problem as it does in 'Make Believe It's Your First Time' by working directly against the very personal message of the song.
I wouldn’t have included it on Make Believe yet the C’s version of that song moves me more than INTBIL. I think the choir sticks out on INTBIL because the structuring and melody never really soar in the way it wants to.
 

John Adam

"Two Lives"
I wouldn’t have included it on Make Believe yet the C’s version of that song moves me more than INTBIL. I think the choir sticks out on INTBIL because the structuring and melody never really soar in the way it wants to.
Her vocal on the 1978 version of INTBIL is much more fantastic without the choir, and the vocal on the solo version of MBIYFT is so much more intimate also. I think the chorale parts can be intrusive on songs where it's Karen's vocal that should be the "star." But I understand, the star wasn't always physically present to do the task, and a choir had to be used.
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
Her vocal on the 1978 version of INTBIL is much more fantastic without the choir, and the vocal on the solo version of MBIYFT is so much more intimate also. I think the chorale parts can be intrusive on songs where it's Karen's vocal that should be the "star." But I understand, the star wasn't always physically present to do the task, and a choir had to be used.
I’m a defender of the C’s Make Believe because I find Karen’s vocal and the arrangement much more involving, but I do understand how for a majority the intimacy is ruined. I think I certainly prefer the stripped back version of INTBIL because it was so personal to Karen and the studio version took away from the emotional connection.
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Absolutely. The inclusion of the choir causes exactly the same problem as it does in 'Make Believe It's Your First Time' by working directly against the very personal message of the song.
The tunes that the OK Chorale is used on already have one foot in the elevator. The Chorale just takes a baseball bat and swings on the tune - slamming it into the back of the elevator and knocking it nearly unconscious. Only Karen's melodic vocal and sincerity keeps it conscious. She's really feeling "I Need to Be In Love" and that's all that redeems it for me, really.

Ed
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
The tunes that the OK Chorale is used on already have one foot in the elevator. The Chorale just takes a baseball bat and swings on the tune - slamming it into the back of the elevator and knocking it nearly unconscious. Only Karen's melodic vocal and sincerity keeps it conscious. She's really feeling "I Need to Be In Love" and that's all that redeems it for me, really.

Ed
I have to agree. The whole OK Chorale thing didn’t bug me so much in 1983 as it does today. I understood the reasons he used them, but it does sound Muzak-esque.

I was just thinking how nice ‘Now’ would sound with a trumpet solo in place of the lines the Chorale performs on that particular song.
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I have to agree. The whole OK Chorale thing didn’t bug me so much in 1983 as it does today. I understood the reasons he used them, but it does sound Muzak-esque.

I was just thinking how nice ‘Now’ would sound with a trumpet solo in place of the lines the Chorale performs on that particular song.
I just don't think "Now" is that good of a song. It's a very Hallmark lyric and the music just kinds lays there. Not sure what either of them saw in it, honestly. Karen's vocal has no life in it either. They'd done many other songs of that type before and they're all better than "Now", IMHO. Whatever's left living from the sleepy tune and Karen's equally sleepy rendering is knocked completely unconscious by the Chorale. I, too, get why he used it but as you said, it renders the song completely inert. Richard hadn't given any pretense of "cool" for a while then but this was even uncool by uncool standards.

Ed
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
Well, that being said, I do love the song and Karen's performance. I think she sounds incredible. It's just the choir I don't like. But I know Richard was under a deadline and should have been given more time to work on it. His vocals would have been way better for backgrounds.
 

Geographer

Well-Known Member
His vocals would have been way better for backgrounds.
I agree completely! Look what he did later with "Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night" where he brought in another background singer to add to his own background voices. That worked WAY better than the chorale. In fact, IKINTBIL is probably the ONLY song where I think the chorale was appropriate. Kind of gave that song a "hymn-like" quality, which I thought appropriate for the song's lyric.
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
I agree completely! Look what he did later with "Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night" where he brought in another background singer to add to his own background voices. That worked WAY better than the chorale. In fact, IKINTBIL is probably the ONLY song where I think the chorale was appropriate. Kind of gave that song a "hymn-like" quality, which I thought appropriate for the song's lyric.

I agree, too! I think it’s one of the only tracks where the Chorale isn’t obtrusive. They’re mixed ‘just right’ on ‘Two Lives’, as well.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Look what he did later with "Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night" where he brought in another background singer to add to his own background voices. That worked WAY better than the chorale.
Siedah Garrett, the session singer on Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night is a vocal chameleon: she can imitate other singers with her own voice. I think that’s why this track works so well. It doesn’t even sound as if there’s a third vocalist on the choruses. It just sounds like the 1980 Karen. If you listen to her duet I Just Can’t Stop Loving You with Michael Jackson, it’s often almost impossible to tell whether it’s her or Michael singing in the verses. This uncanny ability of hers has been documented in various places over the years.

Did you know that your duet with Michael on “I Just Can’t Stop Loving You” was to be the first single off the album [Bad]?

Siedah Garrett: “They didn’t tell me until a couple of days later. Quincy [Jones] said he listened to the song with his eyes closed and he couldn’t tell who was who – me and Michael.


SIEDAH GARRETT: Behind the Man In The Mirror * Working with Michael Jackson
 

AM Matt

Well-Known Member
Siedah Garrett does vocals on Peter Cetera "Scheherazade" (from Cetera 1988 "One More Story" & his 3rd solo album). The best song on Cetera's "One More Story" album is "You Never Listen To Me" (featuring former Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour) which went to # 32 on Billboard Mainstream Rock Charts in late 1988 BUT you don't hear that song anymore on the radio!! Peter has NOT done anything since late 2004 "You Just Gotta Love Christmas". I think Peter's next album should be called "Come What May"!!
 

AM Matt

Well-Known Member
Martin: I just named the album "Come What May" in a song by Roger Whittaker "Here We Stand" (from 1977 "The Best Of" RCA compilation).
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Wow, I never knew Kiss Me had a third voice mixed in. Was it just that they never did backing vocals with Karen?
I’m guessing that it didn’t progress beyond the work lead stage and basic backing track in 1980, but the finished track does sound incredibly sophisticated and complete. Quite why he did enlisted Siedah’s help on just this track alone is anyone’s guess. Maybe he just felt it needed that little something extra. Either way, it works beautifully.
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
I’m guessing that it didn’t progress beyond the work lead stage and basic backing track in 1980, but the finished track does sound incredibly sophisticated and complete. Quite why he did enlisted Siedah’s help on just this track alone is anyone’s guess. Maybe he just felt it needed that little something extra. Either way, it works beautifully.
The whole album sounds so rich and crisp and Kiss Me really does flourish with that extra voice in the mix. This honestly is their best sounding album next to Horizon. VOTH feels thin and mechanical in sound except for Make Believe, Ordinary Fool and LTYD (interestingly the best songs on the album).
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
The whole album sounds so rich and crisp and Kiss Me really does flourish with that extra voice in the mix. This honestly is their best sounding album next to Horizon. VOTH feels thin and mechanical in sound except for Make Believe, Ordinary Fool and LTYD (interestingly the best songs on the album).
100% with you on this! The difference in the sound, texture and ambiance of the 1983 and 1989 albums is unbelievable. A Song For You is my favourite because it was the first album I ever discovered but Lovelines is my other because it just sounds so sophisticated and classy.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Siedah was extra backing like Carolyn Dennis was. Karen's in the background with Richard. I figured this tune was completed and not used like others.
I’ve thought about this before and the only flaw with this theory is that Siedah didn’t emerge as an established session singer until the mid 1980s.
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
Siedah was extra backing like Carolyn Dennis was. Karen's in the background with Richard. I figured this tune was completed and not used like others.

Ed
I agree that most of this track was recorded earlier due to Karen’s background vocals being present. Richard talks about how he didn’t think he was up to the task of mixing it properly in ‘81. My guess is he was talking about the technology not yet available at the time. I’m guessing he added Siedah in ‘89.

The effort (and the wait) was worth it!
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I was listening to the Forsyth "live" 1978 performance of I Need To Be In Love, this morning, and it really tore me up.
Quite frankly, that may be Karen's finest "live" vocal ever (could be visual, too, as Karen is so expressive while singing it).
Anyway, back to 1976....
Heard the song exactly ONCE on an easy-listening radio station (I had to beg them to play it).
Never heard it again on radio.
But, I did love the song back then (1976) and knew it would not resonate with the younger crowd--it is too sophisticated and mature.
Agreeing with Geographer, this is one instance where the Chorale "fits." as it does give a hymn-like, spiritual, quality to the song,
and for a pop-song, a pop-single, this was a daring choice to release as a single.
It is nice to see how appreciated the song has since become, probably of mythical proportions in Japan.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Heard the song exactly ONCE on an easy-listening radio station (I had to beg them to play it).
Never heard it again on radio.
It’s a shame that lesser known singles like this aren’t heard more on the radio today. In many ways they trounce the biggest hits and deserve more airtime. All that I hear on most stations these days is Close To You.
 
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