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Official Review [Single]: 9. "IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME"/"FLAT BAROQUE" (1351-S)

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Chris May, Jun 11, 2016.

Which side is your favorite?


    51 vote(s)
  2. Side B: "FLAT BAROQUE"

    5 vote(s)
  1. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter


    It's Going To Take Some Time.jpg IGTTSTSingle.jpg Flat Baroque.jpg
    Side A: It's Going To Take Some Time 2:54 (King/Stern)
    Side B: Flat Baroque 1:48 (Carpenter)

    Catalogue Number: A&M 1351-S
    Label variant from Columbia Records' Pitman, NJ plant
    Date of Release: 4/22/72
    Format: 7" Single
    Speed: 45 RPM
    Country: US
    Chart Position: #12

    Arranged by Richard Carpenter
    Produced by Jack Daugherty

    Taken from A&M SP-3511 album "A Song For You"

    For more definitive information regarding each single, you can visit our Carpenters - The Complete Singles page in our Carpenters Resource.
  2. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I can not vote on this one.
    Let's just say, I am thankful that I was not introduced to Carpenters
    via either of these two songs !
  3. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    I dithered but ended up voting for the B-side purely because I once had it as my ring tone lol. The A-side is a song they should never have released as a single and it pains me every time I see it included on hits compilations. Not a song I'd use to introduce Carpenters to anyone either.
  4. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    After the success of CARPENTERS (the tan album), and the subsequent singles releases of "Bless The Beasts And Children", and "Hurting Each Other", we were all naturally waiting for a new album from the duo.

    I remember it was a Sunday morning (probably April 23, 1972) and I had my FM stereo radio hooked up in my bedroom so that it would awaken me around 7:30 or 8:00 with my favorite FM station. Newish songs that I had captured on reel-to-reel tape were "A Horse With No Name" by America, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" by Roberta Flack, "Vincent" by Don McLean, and "Taxi" by Harry Chapin. Newish albums that were an instant purchase were of course CARPENTERS and Carole King's MUSIC, the successor to TAPESTRY.

    On that Sunday morning, I was listening to the radio play America sing "A Horse With No Name", half-awake, trying to figure out the cryptic meaning of that song. The next track came on with no announcement. "What is this? Who is ruining this great Carole King song? Oh, wait, that sounds like Karen Carpenter. Hurrah, a new Carpenters song/album is coming!" All of those emotions in the space of just a few seconds.

    I spent the better part of that Sunday attempting to capture the new record on my reel-to-reel recorder, but never bought the single, since the DJs told us it was from a forthcoming album. I waited for A SONG FOR YOU.

  5. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    There was just so much good stuff on the radio at that point...looking over the charts from this period I find myself thinking, "I loved that song! Oh, and that one....and that one..." I don't consider this single a failure -- compared to their streak up till then, maybe -- but neither it nor, for certain, the flip would have motivated me to buy the ASFY album if I hadn't already been a Carpenters fan willing to overlook one "meh" single.
  6. K.C. Jr

    K.C. Jr Well-Known Member

    Well, the first words that come to mind about "It's Going to Take Some Time" is pleasant and so soft! Nevertheless, still a great listen and I love the overdubs!

    "Flat Baroque" is a great instrumental and I love that it's one of the last tunes we hear from "the early days". Clever title. :wink: Although I may be able to relate if I buy too much more Carpenters merchandise! :laugh:
  7. CraigGA

    CraigGA Well-Known Member

    I like this new hit song but would rather have had I Won't Last A Day Without You. With IGTTST I enjoy the flute solo and the overdubs but it is just not interesting enough. Carole King made it interesting with the piano arrangement and accompaniment that dominated her version. Who cared if she sang, for the instrumental arrangement and instrumentation were superb. With the Carpenters the focus is Karen's voice and although the arrangement is sweet it's just not interesting enough to hear 6 times a day on the radio. They put Carole into a Carpenters formula that was almost predictable and it eliminated the freedom of the song. Still, with all of this said, I still enjoy it and I listen to it a few times each month but I add Carole King's in the mix too! Everything after this was pure gold for almost two years so we know that the public still had a strong desire for Carpenters music. Who knows, the album A Song For You pre sold millions from what I have read so maybe this song primarily helped album sales and fans choose the album over the single like Harry.
  8. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    What can I add, except IMHO,
    no Carpenters' 45-Single should consist of an instrumental....period.
    With a voice such as Karen's, harmonies between brother and sister,
    there is no excuse not to have a "regular" vocal pop song on the flip-side.
    I suppose it did put a few more dollars in Richard's pockets--being the composer--
    but, even so, drop the instrumentals !
    Just my two cents.
    MorningOpensQuietly likes this.
  9. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    Interesting thought and yep, I'd agree. But the B-side is where Richard got the nice free royalty ride and on this occasion it was also from the album and showcased his musical talents, something which I'm sure fed his ego.
  10. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    I liked this single but it was the first one after Begun that I didn't LOVE.
  11. byline

    byline Active Member

    I think back to this time in my life (early teens), and then look at the titles of pop singles in 1972. They immediately capture a particular emotion I felt about music at that time, particularly the summer spent at my grandparents' home in Florida. While I agree that this wasn't a single I adored, even reading the title brings back that emotion, that vibe. It's not really something I can analyze critically. Plus, it's from A Song for You, one of my favorite (and arguably the greatest) Carpenters album. As "weak links" go, it's pretty amazing.
  12. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    I'm surprised there's so much dislike for this one. I always thought it was quite nice -- certainly not the level of their best hits to this point, but I liked it a lot better than Carole King's version simply because Karen had such a much better voice than Carole (in my opinion).

    As to why they put "Flat Baroque" on the B-side, my theory is that by this time, Carpenters were so "reliable" as singles artists that they probably wanted to make sure they didn't "burn" a potential hit-single vocal track by putting it on a b-side, hence that's why they used the instrumental. RC got the royalties from a song they knew would never be a hit anyway.
    byline likes this.
  13. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    If Richard Carpenter was concerned about "image" considerations at this point in time (April 1972),
    that consideration is not supported through the decision to release this super-soft Single.
    At least Close To You, soft as it was, was innovative and had some spunk.
    This single just falls flat and reinforces the"easy listening" moniker, IMHO.
    (More so than the yet to be released "Sing").
    His arrangement --maybe purposefully--is mediocre.
    But, then, the song--to me--is,well, mediocre. (Although, Dishwalla spiced it up !).
  14. byline

    byline Active Member

    I don't think the arrangement is mediocre at all. What I find especially interesting is the flute part, which features a traditional flute by Bob Messenger along with a bass flute by Tim Weisberg. This wasn't exactly the usual stuff of Top 40 hits. Carole King herself is quoted as saying that the Carpenters' arrangement made her original version sound "like a demo."
  15. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I suppose you have a point, Byline.
    What I meant to say was "the arrangement is mediocre if compared to
    other, previous, Carpenters' singles"....this is where I find the song wanting.
    But, on the other hand, I really do not care much for the flute solo-- and not
    simply on this song ! (That is, I am not a flute solo fan, period !).
    This is, simply put, one of my least played Carpenters' songs......
  16. Guitarmutt

    Guitarmutt Active Member

    Funny, so many comments against and so many votes for. I say, dynamics. Up and down thin and thick. Ya know? Plus, Carpenters were always about defying expectations. Yes, ok. Expect the unexpected and so on. They were sort of Downey Punks long before Hollywood punks; and sort of lost long after hollywood punks. Or some such.
  17. CraigGA

    CraigGA Well-Known Member

    I don't think people are saying they dislike it. A critique is just a data set of points based on some criteria experienced or observed. I just think most are saying that other singles are stronger and that there were better choices, but all worked out for Gold breaking duo for the next 3 years regardless and we got a pleasant song! Technology available today most likely would have given it a different feel altogether. I think this was originally recorded pre Dolby which seems to hide some crisper nuisances that were probably heard in the recording studio. Can anyone give weight to this theory? I always thought that is why Richard remixed it with the piano: to brighten the mood - for all their mournful songs had an unspoken outline of hope in both the vocals and instrumental arrangements.

    I think it would be great if Richard would put a new alternate mix for all the hits just to see what could be done today with all the new advantages in recording. It might open up another generation of appreciative fans while adding a refreshed focus on the original and we might even get a new tune out of it. Maybe even a collaboration of certain producers viewed as heavyweights in today's market! It might even help the Rock of Fame effort.

    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  18. A&M Retro

    A&M Retro Well-Known Member

    Not sure if anyone on here is aware or not, but the original 45 of 'Flat Baroque' is DIFFERENT than the album version. At :18, Richard plays an octave lower on the piano for a few notes. I don't have the 'Complete Singles' set yet, so I don't know if this is the version used on that or not (I hope so). If you don't hear a difference on the CD set, pull out the vinyl and you'll hear it. :)

    I noticed it right away once I got the album for my birthday a month after purchasing the 45. I was only 10, but my ear was trained already to catch the nuances. Patting myself on the back now. :wink:

    I first heard 'It's Going To Take Some Time' on a station late at night. My brother always fell asleep to the radio, and it came on the airwaves at like 2 in the morning. Karen's voice woke me up. I was hooked on first listen. I'd also hear it coming home from Cub Scout baseball. Great memories.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  19. K.C. Jr

    K.C. Jr Well-Known Member

    Wow! I never noticed that; thanks for pointing it out! I'm gonna have to take a closer listen:phones:
  20. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Well keep patting yourself on the back! (But don't hurt yourself!) :wink:

    This is a very interesting variation. Certainly one I never noticed before. I didn't buy this single so I couldn't have noticed it back then. Since that time, my collection has grown in fits and starts and I have three copies of "It's Going To Take Some Time" on 45. Two are white label promos with the mono version on the flip side. The other one is a stock single with "Flat Baroque" on the b-side. Being just an instrumental track, I don't think I was ever interested in playing it. But just now, with your tip, I have played it - and Oh Boy!

    After some analyzing on the computer, I believe this to be a different mix that was made for the single. The album version seems to be more centered with Richard's main piano playing. This single mix has Richard starting toward the left, and then at that :18 part he sort of switches to both a left and right. One side is the melody while the other is a harmony. I believe that both of these are there in the album version - I'm not sure about a different octave. We'll wait for Chris to weigh in on that.

    At around :43, Richard's lead shifts to the right a bit. At around 1:00, we get the split stereo again, and things - even other instruments sound a bit different in the mix.

    Now to the "BIG ERROR" - This single mix is not included on the Public TV CARPENTERS: THE COMPLETE SINGLES, nor is it present on the JAPANESE SINGLE BOX (but I have no way of knowing if the Japanese single used this mix.)

    I'll be updating the COMPLETE RECORDING RESOURCE later on after conferring with our other expert, Chris.

    A&M Retro likes this.
  21. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Honolulu City Lights

    I believe we talked about Flat Baroque before in the past many years ago, here is the thread with a link inside to another thread.
    A&M Retro mentions it here too. Starts at post #9
    Carpenters single mixes »

    In addition, if you have the 2 CD set of Japan's Treasures Richard writes a large summary of Flat Baroque. He composed it in 1966 and when Karen, Wes Jacobs and Richard were signed briefly with RCA Victor in early 67' this song was cut. He says it was never released . He also says that it was re-recorded for A Song For You.

    I think I also brought this 45 up in a thread back in 2003 about the 45 sounding a bit slower to me something stood out hence the reason I posted a thread when I got the 45 single back then.
  22. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Your memory is better than mine here. I recall the speed differential, but not the mix difference.

    But then again, back in 2003, I wasn't involved with the Resource. Funny how the differences in other tracks get a lot of "press", but this one seems to get lost among the others.
  23. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Honolulu City Lights

    Yeah, time flies huh? It's easy how this one was overlooked as it's not a fan favorite around here but I still remember playing this 45 back in 2003 when I first got it and saying I hear something different.

    I look forward to what Chris thinks once he see and reviews Flat Baroque comparing the 45 to the album and to all other versions. I love the title of the song being a Classical listener myself however I'm not so sure it should have been the B side to a Carpenters 45.
    A&M Retro likes this.
  24. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    Basically what's going on here is Richard recorded the piano in three separate overdubs.

    At 0:00, piano #1 in comes in with melody, panned predominantly to the left.

    At 0:18, in comes piano #2 playing the upper octave panned predominantly right to mirror what's happening melodically on the first piano, with a low-end embellishment and chordal fills toward the end. Note that piano #1 is carrying most of the "bottom", carrying a majority of the chord changes throughout that section.

    At 0:27, piano #2 (panned right) takes over the melody altogether on the pick up, and in comes piano #3 (placed 'center' in the mix) on the downbeat or "1" to create harmonics to support piano #2. In finishing out the phrase, all (3) pianos accent the 'hits' leading up to the solo.

    At 0:43, piano #2 (right) begins to solo while piano #1 (left) carries the chord changes, followed by all (3) pianos creating the 'hits' toward the end, and repeating the same layout and progression throughout, with piano #3 (center) playing embellishments, etc.

    When listening, think of it in terms of piano #1 (left), piano #2 (right), and piano #3 (center), and you'll begin to piece together the puzzle.

    All of this to say that this is an alternate mix from that which is heard on the album. It was not uncommon for Richard to also layer the acoustic piano as well on certain tracks. Ticket To Ride intro is a perfect example in the segue between bars 6 and 7. During the build up you'll hear the piano is actually an overdub on top of the initial piano on the track.
  25. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Thanks Chris - and thanks Rick and A&M Retro - for getting the facts together. I've updated our Complete Recording Resource with the appropriate information along with Chris' technical description.

    Chris May likes this.

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