Solo Album and Single Success

[JohnFB]

...

Personally I quite enjoy Karen's performance on 'Love Makin' Love to You', although I think it would have been too 'risque' to have been included on the album in 1980 - she could perhaps have tackled it a couple of solo albums in if she'd wanted to, but it was probably a step too far for a debut solo album with the public image that she had going into it.

What I can say with certainty is that, in terms of quality, the album was most certainly releasable and there were clearly other factors at play in its shelving. And I will say that in hindsight, giving Karen the 'silent treatment' during the West Coast playback seems an incredibly cruel way to have dealt with the situation, regardless of whether they really believed it to be 'inferior' or not. I assume they didn't think through how such behavior would be received, but to me it seems they could hardly have picked a more devastating and damaging approach to have taken - particularly as they'd never done so before in relation to anything the Carpenters had released, even when they were aware it was below par.

"Love Makin' Love To You" would have been too risque? You mean with lyrics like:

Ain’t no lightning and thunder
Any seven wonder
Mightier than what you've got
What if you keep it up forever
No one does it better
Baby, need it while it's hot...

If only any of us could have heard them in person - either sung or spoken...


And as far as the album itself goes I place most of the blame for it's non-release on Karen herself - she had control over the song choices and ultimately approval of the arrangements and recording, including the vocal overlays - and she could have and should have insisted on it's release - all she had to do was assert herself and demand it - all they could do was bully her but she held the key and the power in her incomparable voice - she should have insisted in the strongest possible terms or threatened to take her immense talents somewhere else - just one more instance where she couldn't bring herself to be strong enough to act in her own best interest - there had been others before and there were more to come...if only she had been the hard-headed, stubborn, tempestuous diva she had every right to be...

 

[John Adam]

I

And as far as the album itself goes I place most of the blame for it's non-release on Karen herself - she had control over the song choices and ultimately approval of the arrangements and recording, including the vocal overlays - and she could have and should have insisted on it's release - all she had to do was assert herself and demand it -

I brought these quotes over from the "Passage" album thread."

I agree with Newvillefan, Karen’s solo tracks do fit better and I will add that without them, you miss Karen’s eclectic side, as Passage shows Richard’s.

How Goofus and Man Smart, Woman Smarter could ever have been sanctioned for release, while the solo album was deemed bad enough to jettison completely, is beyond me. Total double standards.

Lots of valid and interesting opinions always about the solo album. Every once in a while it's nice to reflect on this too!
Thanks to everyone for keeping it about the music business and not about personal issues!

 

[Proudofyou]

I think one duet with a McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Dionne, Kenny Rogers, etc or whoever in those days, could have helped the transition.

 

[Harry]

Just a friendly reminder. Keep to the topic of music and we're OK. Just try to stay away from wild suppositions that accomplish nothing. We've already had to do a little cleanup work here.

 

[Matthew S]

And maybe at the time the best way to handle whatever situation they had with Karen's solo album, was to not release it.
It's just hard when you care, and you don't understand. But it's possible no one felt any need to explain it further. That was their decision at the time.

We got what we wanted in 1996 when Karen Carpenter was released, and the unreleased material was available on-line a few years later. Maybe there is no story, or all the parties involved (many that are no longer with us) have forgotten exactly why it was shelved in 1980. What an artist/record company considers releasable may be very different from a listeners point of view. Perspectives change in time, as several selections were released via Carpenters before 1996. I speak for many of us, we just want to hear everything (Karen recorded) in good quality. Period.

Or those who remember why it was shelved at that time who are still alive and who were in the room when it was decided, have chosen to remain silent out of respect for Karen. And that does make sense to me.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

And so what if the response to it had been tepid, as John Bettis likes to point out that it would have been.

It's easy to say "so what if it had been tepid," but you have to remember that the record company would have had to invest a tidy sum of money into completing, design/artwork, manufacturing, shipping, and promotion.... on a record that all the powers-that-be felt would not be well received, for whatever their reasons might have been.

So it's no surprise that it wasn't released. I'm not saying that A&R people and record executives don't make mistakes....of course, they sometimes do. But usually, they don't.

 

[John Adam]

I was always struck by Richard's comment in the Coleman book that there wasn't a hit single on Karen's solo album..."with the possible exception of 'If I Had You'".

I always interpreted this as a begrudging acceptance by Richard that the album did indeed contain a hit song, just that he didn't like to admit it. Had the album been released, what do you think the chance of single success would have been? I think it's fun to speculate. What other songs do you think would have fared well? What do you think the B-sides would have been?

Assuming Karen had gone ahead and released it in May 1980 instead of cancelling it, here are mine:

May 1980
Single #1: If I Had You
B-side: If We Try
Comment: Lead Single

August 1980
Single #2: My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
B-side: All Because Of You
Comment: Great summer single!

November 1980
Single #3: Make Believe It's Your First Time
B-side: Lovelines
Comment: Reflective autumn/winter single

Thanks for starting this thread, Newvillefan!

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

It's easy to say "so what if it had been tepid," but you have to remember that the record company would have had to invest a tidy sum of money into completing, design/artwork, manufacturing, shipping, and promotion.... on a record that all the powers-that-be felt would not be well received, for whatever their reasons might have been.

So it's no surprise that it wasn't released. I'm not saying that A&R people and record executives don't make mistakes....of course, they sometimes do. But usually, they don't.

...yet they did it for "Time". I'm not even sure that cuts it as a "double standard." That's just...odd, IMHO. There's no way anyone could have imagined respectable sales for a record from Richard Carpenter. They even did it years later with the second (and likely final) solo record.

Ed

 

[JohnFB]

I think one duet with a McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Dionne, Kenny Rogers, etc or whoever in those days, could have helped the transition.

Might have helped - couldn't have hurt - Kenny Rogers too? - What irony! - The big star who had rejected Karen when she auditioned for the "girl singer" job with his band a decade or so before, now probably salivating over the chance to do a duet with her...ahh, sweet revenge!

 

[Proudofyou]

Might have helped - couldn't have hurt - Kenny Rogers too? - What irony! - The big star who had rejected Karen when she auditioned for the "girl singer" job with his band a decade or so before, now probably salivating over the chance to do a duet with her...ahh, sweet revenge!

Hahah exactly. I didn't intend for that but was just thinking who was at the top of the charts then. But yes, living well is the best revenge. Oh boy would I have loved a collaboration with let's say George Benson or someone who was top of the commercial smooth jazz charts. I could just hear her all over those stations. Masquerade was a crossover so why not?

 

[Harry]

...yet they did it for "Time". I'm not even sure that cuts it as a "double standard." That's just...odd, IMHO. There's no way anyone could have imagined respectable sales for a record from Richard Carpenter. They even did it years later with the second (and likely final) solo record.

Ed

Ed, I'm pretty sure the · ·T·I·M·E· · project was more or less a sympathy effort from his A&M family and friends. The man had lost his sister and professional partner, who'd sold gazillions of records for the label, and letting him have some studio time and releasing an album just to see what he'd come up with, was simply the right thing to do for an "artists'" label. Heck, Herb himself contributed to one of the songs in tribute to Karen.

The PACC project? Well that one came from PolyGram, and may have been a bonus side-project thrown in while Richard was participating in the release of the Remastered Classics.

 

[GaryAlan]

Pianist, Arranger, Composer, Conductor project:
Richard Carpenter:
"I was asked by our affiliate in Japan, Polydor, to put it together. They asked for an album with piano,
orchestra, and some vocal arranging after the remarkable new success, selling over two million copies of 22 Hits of the Carpenters.
They wanted the bulk of it to be those songs." (Interview with Greg Rule, Keyboard , August 1998)
Billed as only his second solo album....
Richard Carpenter: "The decision to include Sandy was purely mine. The record company didn't ask for anything with
Karen singing, but I think she would have liked the way it worked. This is a whole new album with orchestrations.
I didn't know whether I could pull it off or not, so I am very happy with it." (Interview with Sarah Vincent, Hindustan Times, 1998).

 

[Harry]

^Yeah, the Japanese instigated the project, but it was released in various worldwide regions, including the US. In 1997-1998, interest in Carpenters was pretty high, hence the Remastered Classics and subsequent box sets.

 

[Mark-T]

^Yeah, the Japanese instigated the project, but it was released in various worldwide regions, including the US. In 1997-1998, interest in Carpenters was pretty high, hence the Remastered Classics and subsequent box sets.

Maybe there’s something on the works to go with the new book?

 

[GaryAlan]

Richard also completed Karen's Theme specifically for the album, PACC.

RC: "I completed the melody, arranged and recorded the piece in late 1996 for my album, Pianist, Arranger, Composer, Conductor​

that was released by A&M in March 1997." ​

Here:

Carpenters •• Karen's Theme

 

[JohnFB]

... Oh boy would I have loved a collaboration with let's say George Benson or someone who was top of the commercial smooth jazz charts. I could just hear her all over those stations. Masquerade was a crossover so why not?

Totally agreed! George Benson and a number of others - THIS MASQUERADE and many more - Smooth Jazz would have been a great choice and logical direction to be heading - she could sing any genre superbly and Richard could play/arrange them - could have been mixed seemlessly with some more top notch Smooth Pop ala the LOVELINES album- screw hit charts and record sales and images and tours - time to realize full artistic potential and maximize the expression of their complete musical gifts...get the hell back in the studio and stay there and get to work on first class stuff - good gravy, they really needed me as their "artistic advisor"!

 

[Jorge]

They could at least have released a single! If I Had You / If We Try or If I Had You / Lovelines. But they didn't even do that. The whole album was degraded as 'unreleasable" . That will always be one of the greatest mysteries of Karen's career.

 

[newvillefan]

They could at least have released a single! If I Had You / If We Try or If I Had You / Lovelines. But they didn't even do that.

That was my A/B side choice for the lead single way back in post #1

 

[Harry]

The whole album was degraded as 'unreleasable" .

It was SHELVED and was possibly going to be re-looked at and augmented with some further recordings. The future was unwritten yet. No-one knew she was going to die.

[This thread is real close to ending its life...Moderators]

 

[newvillefan]

[…] who'd sold gazillions of records for the label, and letting him have some studio time and releasing an album just to see what he'd come up with, was simply the right thing to do for an "artists'" label.

Aren’t these all the exact same reasons Karen should have been given the same chance by the label?

 

[A&M Retro]

Aren’t these all the exact same reasons Karen should have been given the same chance by the label?

BAM!! YES!! There’s no excuse for how she was treated. The bottom line is Richard didn’t get behind it. If he had, they all would have fallen in line and it likely would have been released. They backed off when they saw his reaction. Karen, herself, could have put her foot down and really didn’t.

I’m sure it wasn’t easy on any of them in that playback session. Herb and Jerry probably felt extremely uneasy.

Was it a flawless album? No. Did it deserve to be released and heard as originally planned in 1980? Absolutely!

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Aren’t these all the exact same reasons Karen should have been given the same chance by the label?

That's a good point. If they were operating on sympathy (which really does make sense though that's one pricey sympathy album with the strings and otherwise high-priced production), you'd think they'd have done Karen a solid by releasing her record too. The situations are a bit different but the parallel is obvious.

Ed

 

[Harry]

And we're out of here.