The Carpenters from a Man's Point of View

Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Well-Known Member
Why do you think there are so many Men that love the music of the Carpenters? I know we have a mixture of both men and women that post here but I would venture to say that most people that post seem to be men. Ladies..this is not a men's only topic so feel free to chime in as well. :laugh:

I've noticed it not only on this forum but others as well that most seem to be men that post about their music. Do you think there are still guys today that might be afraid to let their friends know that they love the Carpenters but find it easier to post about it on a forum?

I know for me growing up there was still a negative placed against you if you told your friends or people in school or work that you love the Carpenters...some might say..the who? who are they? or you like the Carpenters and then laugh. Of course that stuff doesn't bother me now but back then there was a lot of negative connotations about being a guy and loving the music of Karen and Richard. Do you think there are more men that purchase their music than say women or probably the same?

I'd like to hear your thoughts...
 
I've always liked female and male pop vocalists, both. I'm not into the Streisands and that style of music, but Christine McVie and Lani Hall are my two favorites. I like Karen C. almost as much as them, but I find I have to be more in the right "mood" to listen to Carpenters, where I can listen to some Fleetwood Mac or Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 almost anytime. There are lots of other females I like too, but I can't really name my favorite male vocalist... too many to list.

My wife, on the other hand, does not like very many female vocalists at all. She likes music but she's not into the "details" of it like I am.
 
To me, it’s the voice of Karen Carpenter and Richard knew how to frame it. I like how Phil Ramone pushed her boundaries but it’s that voice that captures my soul. Richard’s arrangements are contagious and it fits with Karen’s sound to the point where it was destiny. During the seventies I used to tune in to new music just so I could hear a new Carpenters record, and now with sound systems so encompassing her voice sounds more refined than before. They touched on a variety of different styles that encouraged me to be more well rounded in my musical tastes. And, their musicianship was always been above board. Even though I like a variety of periods in music I am glad I was born in a time where I could hear Karen Carpenter. Her voice touches me to the core.
 
My own reasons for specifically loving Carpenters music is unique, but in general, I also adore female vocalists, especially altos, which has to do with my original reason for loving KC's voice above all. There are certain qualities to a woman's voice that appeal to men on a basic, primal level. I believe the alto voice is more soothing because low tones are lower frequency and the way our ears hear lower tones (as well as the way our eyes see colors on the lower end of the spectrum) creates a calming, soothing effect.

Higher tones and colors, on the other hand, are more exciting and agitating. It's why colors in fast food restaurants are generally bright yellows, oranges, reds, etc. They are on the higher end of the spectrum and cause people to be less comfortable, promoting the "get them in and get them out" fast food business model. Going back to singing, sopranos sing in higher pitches and tones, and are therefore exciting when heard. They are rarely considered to be soothing unless they possess that rare soft, high voice, but most of them come off as shrill and grating even after years of classical training.

A guy would be hard pressed to hear Karen's voice and be like "meh" because she just had that quality that men are drawn to on that basic level. For women, Trent Reznor is a good example of that. The whispering, soft quality of his voice drives females nuts. Nine Inch Nails produced some of the most vulgar, violent music and women would swoon all over it because of the voice.

I've mentioned it before elsewhere, but if you really want to delve into the science and psychology behind music, I highly recommend Daniel Levitin's book This Is Your Brain On Music. If you have read some of the more popular reviews of Carpenters music, you will remember his name as a critic who would dig deep into their appeal and what made their music so splendorous and appealing, even though people were ashamed of it at times. It is possible that the effect Carpenters music had on him inspired him to delve into the science of what makes music appealing.
 
My own reasons for specifically loving Carpenters music is unique, but in general, I also adore female vocalists, especially altos, which has to do with my original reason for loving KC's voice above all. There are certain qualities to a woman's voice that appeal to men on a basic, primal level. I believe the alto voice is more soothing because low tones are lower frequency and the way our ears hear lower tones (as well as the way our eyes see colors on the lower end of the spectrum) creates a calming, soothing effect.

Higher tones and colors, on the other hand, are more exciting and agitating. It's why colors in fast food restaurants are generally bright yellows, oranges, reds, etc. They are on the higher end of the spectrum and cause people to be less comfortable, promoting the "get them in and get them out" fast food business model. Going back to singing, sopranos sing in higher pitches and tones, and are therefore exciting when heard. They are rarely considered to be soothing unless they possess that rare soft, high voice, but most of them come off as shrill and grating even after years of classical training.

A guy would be hard pressed to hear Karen's voice and be like "meh" because she just had that quality that men are drawn to on that basic level. For women, Trent Reznor is a good example of that. The whispering, soft quality of his voice drives females nuts. Nine Inch Nails produced some of the most vulgar, violent music and women would swoon all over it because of the voice.

I've mentioned it before elsewhere, but if you really want to delve into the science and psychology behind music, I highly recommend Daniel Levitin's book This Is Your Brain On Music. If you have read some of the more popular reviews of Carpenters music, you will remember his name as a critic who would dig deep into their appeal and what made their music so splendorous and appealing, even though people were ashamed of it at times. It is possible that the effect Carpenters music had on him inspired him to delve into the science of what makes music appealing.
A very interesting perspective!
 
To be frank, I have absolutely no idea. For me, it's Karen's voice. It was just so incredibly warm and "in your lap" that I can't ignore it when I hear it. That said, I actually love Karen's voice with Rod Temperton's vocal arrangements even more than Karen with Richard. I also love his vocal arrangements paired with Johnny Wilder, Jr. (from Heatwave). Both Karen and Johnny's voices were tailor-made for Rod's jazz voicings and I would have loved to hear more of the Karen/Rod pairing. I'm very much an R&B/Jazz guy and Rod's arrangements are Jazz to their very core whereas Richard's are choral-based for the most part. When he gets jazzy (i.e. on "Without A Song"), he becomes even more fun. I wish he would have done that with her more often. Still, Richard's vocal arrangements on "You", "Sing" (really), or even "Goofus" are just ear candy.

Ed
 
For me the Carpenters were at the height of their popularity when I was little in the early 70s and not just because of my Mother's records but Our local Radio Stations ( at least the ones i listened to regularly)were playing them heavily even up to Karen's passing I always noticed Karen's unique Voice and Styling blended together with Richard's voice and arrangements to me seemed perfect and when I started building my own library of music I wanted The Carpenters to be every bit a part of it as Herb Alpert .Sergio Mendes. Lani Hall .BMB and Many others too numerous to list and 40 years have passed since I received my first cassette player as a Christmas Gift and I was only 11 at the time but It was the beginning of my music collecting it seems like only yesterday
 
for me, it`s about Karen` voice, but it it is also about the songs/music.
I`m not sure why, but all my favourite artists at the moment are female, apart from one male, Michael Buble. The females I listen to are obviously Karen, but also Diana Krall, Rumer and Harriet, but I do like Linda Ortega and there`s about 3-4 tracks I like that Christine and the Queens did, but it`s mainly the first five! Who knows, I can`t really give a reason for it, but there has always been something special about a females voice. I`ve had a saying for a while now and I think it`s right, `There`s something special about a beautiful woman, but a beautiful woman that can sing ....... ` :)
 
As an 18 year old this is quite an intersting topic to explore. It was kind of an accident - or was it destiny? - that I started to listen to the Carpenters ...

I have always loved music my entire life, I can remember the big chart/radio hits from when I was in a car seat ! But at the age of 14 I began to get bored of the Top 40 (which I followed religiously every week) so decided to stray into older music. It wasn't that much of an alien world to me because with my older brother I played a lot of the video game "Grand Theft Auto", yes very violent ect. but there are in-game radio stations that play all genres of music from modern hits, rap, country and 70's chart hits so I knew quite a few songs. Any way, the summer of 2014 I started listening to older artists on YouTube, whilst thinking of more songs to listen to I remembered a song I had heard on The Simpsons, I found "Close To You" and was just instantly hooked to Karen's voice and Richard's arrangement. After listening to it around the house my mum heard and told me it was the Carpenters, then bizzarely around that time "Yesterday Once More" came on the radio and she told me that this was also them. I just loved their sound. So I listened to them on YouTube, turned down getting the Gold CD when I saw it (why? I don't know) then a few weeks later got "40/40" and listened to it non-stop for about 3 months before deciding to go further. I search their songs and wrote down the names of some that looked interesting (Kind Of Hush, Beechwood and Can't Smile) then I had to get more!

After nearly 4 years, a book case full of Carpenters and making friends all over the world with fans I feel like I've been a mega fan for a long time ! It's Karen's voice. So pure, warm and emotive. Even on songs that should have a cold feeling to them, there is a warmth to her voice. I find it quite comforting. I listen to quite a bit of other music so will list others in my collection, it's interesting to note how many are females:
-Nancy Sinatra - ABBA - Frank Sinatra - Dusty Springfield - Connie Francis - Shawn Mendes - The Mammas & The Pappas - Adele - Olivia Newton-John - Carly Simon - Cher - Dionne Warwick - to name a few
 
There is a general tendency on the Internet in general that females do not discuss music very much. Discussion of music tends to be in the male domain.
I didn’t know this either why do you think that is true? I know it can’t be that men can express their feelings easier than women because I’ve always heard it’s the opposite that women are always saying men don’t express enough emotions. I see a lot of emotions being expressed here about the Carpenters and most are from men. (I also think that’s great)
 
My own reasons for specifically loving Carpenters music is unique, but in general, I also adore female vocalists, especially altos, which has to do with my original reason for loving KC's voice above all. There are certain qualities to a woman's voice that appeal to men on a basic, primal level. I believe the alto voice is more soothing because low tones are lower frequency and the way our ears hear lower tones (as well as the way our eyes see colors on the lower end of the spectrum) creates a calming, soothing effect.

Higher tones and colors, on the other hand, are more exciting and agitating. It's why colors in fast food restaurants are generally bright yellows, oranges, reds, etc. They are on the higher end of the spectrum and cause people to be less comfortable, promoting the "get them in and get them out" fast food business model. Going back to singing, sopranos sing in higher pitches and tones, and are therefore exciting when heard. They are rarely considered to be soothing unless they possess that rare soft, high voice, but most of them come off as shrill and grating even after years of classical training.

A guy would be hard pressed to hear Karen's voice and be like "meh" because she just had that quality that men are drawn to on that basic level. For women, Trent Reznor is a good example of that. The whispering, soft quality of his voice drives females nuts. Nine Inch Nails produced some of the most vulgar, violent music and women would swoon all over it because of the voice.

I've mentioned it before elsewhere, but if you really want to delve into the science and psychology behind music, I highly recommend Daniel Levitin's book This Is Your Brain On Music. If you have read some of the more popular reviews of Carpenters music, you will remember his name as a critic who would dig deep into their appeal and what made their music so splendorous and appealing, even though people were ashamed of it at times. It is possible that the effect Carpenters music had on him inspired him to delve into the science of what makes music appealing.
^^this was really good, I had to read it twice. That book sounds very interesting.
 
So you like Goofus too? We’re in the same camp...I don’t feel alone anymore. :laugh:

LOL! That's the annoying thing. The tune is silly nonsense and totally wrong for Carpenters on every level. I'm not a fan of the fact that Richard wasted Karen on a novelty tune that she could have done in her sleep. It doesn't use her to the full like so many other tunes did. Anyone can sing that tune and sound fine doing it.

The vocal arrangement makes it far more than it should be. That's the only thing that makes it work for me. Without it, it's nothing.

Ed
 
I still subscribe to the notion that Karen sang "Goofus" because Karen *wanted* to sing "Goofus". She grew up with the same Spike Jones-type records that Richard did, so if anything, it was likely a joint venture.

While I believe that women can love and enjoy music just as much as men, there is the element of minutiae that is often discussed on an internet site or forum. Men tend to enjoy the way the music sounds, the hi-fi element of it, the equipment on which its played, how it was mastered. A lot of these things don't matter to many women. "Put on a song and let it play" tends to be their attitude, not whether it's a 2004 remix, a first Japan pressing, or an original mono mix.

There are surely counter-examples of men who care little about the minutiae and women who are very much into that, but I think the numbers skew in the other direction, and pretty widely so.
 
I still subscribe to the notion that Karen sang "Goofus" because Karen *wanted* to sing "Goofus". She grew up with the same Spike Jones-type records that Richard did, so if anything, it was likely a joint venture.

While I believe that women can love and enjoy music just as much as men, there is the element of minutiae that is often discussed on an internet site or forum. Men tend to enjoy the way the music sounds, the hi-fi element of it, the equipment on which its played, how it was mastered. A lot of these things don't matter to many women. "Put on a song and let it play" tends to be their attitude, not whether it's a 2004 remix, a first Japan pressing, or an original mono mix.

There are surely counter-examples of men who care little about the minutiae and women who are very much into that, but I think the numbers skew in the other direction, and pretty widely so.
This makes sense I guess I was looking at it more from the emotional standpoint.
 
While I believe that women can love and enjoy music just as much as men, there is the element of minutiae that is often discussed on an internet site or forum. Men tend to enjoy the way the music sounds, the hi-fi element of it, the equipment on which its played, how it was mastered. A lot of these things don't matter to many women.

I once played a female colleague of mine a snippet from the documentary “Inside The Rhapsody” (the making of the famous Queen song which sees Brian May analyse the multitracks) and she was bemused and amazed at what the recording process actually involved. She literally had no idea or concept of what was involved until she saw this video. I remember being amused when she commented “I just thought the band members play their instruments and sing and it gets recorded”. So I think you’re right - many women just aren’t interested in the technical aspects of songs and recordings.
 
I can only speak for why this man loves the Carpenters. The Voice. Yes, I am very impressed by Richard's genius, but it's Karen's voice that draws me and has for decades. There's something there that I responded to- the man in me wanting to protect her, the lower register that is at once melancholy and sensual, the feeling I had when listening to her as a teen that there was more there than met the eye. Warm, intimate, compelling. Free flowing yet exact. Playful and serious. All the contradictions rolled into one voice.

(Rick, you'll appreciate this next part...) In contrast to my love for Olivia, with Karen I seemed to get a glimpse of her soul that I could never shake. With Olivia, I never could really get past her incredible looks and charming speaking voice to bother to go deeper. And why would I want to? :) Her blustery vocals were enough and they were the icing on the cake of every teenaged boy's fantasy woman.
 
Everything goes back to the single version of "Solitaire". Is it worth buying a new album for those few seconds? To many of us, it is.

I became a fan back in 1998 when I was 12. Up until that point Barbra Streisand was my absolute favorite. But as I started finding other music, Karen's voice was the perfect contrast to Barbra's I started out with the K7 of "The Singles 1969-1973". Later my mother purchased the CD. I was FLOORED when I heard "Yesterday Once More" and how different it sounded compared to what was on my cassette. Then came the YOM compilation - remixes galore of the songs I loved. To me one of the biggest highlights of my fandom was the SACD release. Wow. Isolating Karen's vocals and the tinkering of the sounds was such a treat.

I would love to access the Quad music: as a whole and in part. But I have to find someone who has done that!
 
I never really thought about it but women do seem less interested in the nuances of music on forums. I really wonder if it's something innate in the male brain makeup that makes us interested in it more. I mean, it's not stereotypically "masculine" in nature, like loving sports or cars, but it still appeals to the male psyche to a higher degree. I think it has also to with women being more directly emotional beings, they often have no issues expressing and connecting with emotion within, whereas men might (innately) analyze why they feel this way more. And I don't think it has anything to do with natural empathy/sensitivity - a man who has those qualities and doesn't hide them from himself or others is still more likely to want to break it down more.
 
I never really thought about it but women do seem less interested in the nuances of music on forums. I really wonder if it's something innate in the male brain makeup that makes us interested in it more. I mean, it's not stereotypically "masculine" in nature, like loving sports or cars, but it still appeals to the male psyche to a higher degree. I think it has also to with women being more directly emotional beings, they often have no issues expressing and connecting with emotion within, whereas men might (innately) analyze why they feel this way more. And I don't think it has anything to do with natural empathy/sensitivity - a man who has those qualities and doesn't hide them from himself or others is still more likely to want to break it down more.

I agree with this analysis. This does seem to be the case.
 
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