The Dot Records Thread

[Michael Hagerty]

Was waiting for someone to mention this. They had no less than Count Basie on that label and other jazz artists as you mentioned. To reduce Dot to the other nonsense is to miss a large part of Dot's legacy.

Ed

I think I was clear that the jazz is worthy of respect but didn't overall dilute the label's image.

Basie was one of the first signings the label made after Paramount bought it. He was there for two years (1967-69) and did an album of songs from a Paramount film (HALF A SIXPENCE), two albums with The Mills Brothers, one album with Kay Starr, one studio album and one live album.

Lalo Schifrin also came to the label through his work with Paramount (MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE).

 

[Rudy]

I've read through a history of Dot Records, and it went through phases of music that it promoted. The "old fogie" music was a relic of one era, and that was partially ended when Welk bought the masters and released them on Ranwood. The label opened up to other types of music as the years passed (surf and other types of popular music of that era). When Paramount bought it, they eventually started using the Paramount name for the record label (Lalo Schifrin's Mission Impossible record was on Dot, where More Mission Impossible was on Paramount), then became ABC-Paramount when they were acquired. At some point in the mid 1970s the label deleted all of the catalog and instead, focused on country music.

The label never really entered my radar, so to me it has always been just another label, no image beyond it never being a major label.

 

[Rudy]

And this is a bit humorous. I saw a listing for an estate sale starting tomorrow. The title of it included "LP records" so I had to check it out

The very first photo they posted?



Look on the left side of the row.

Also, the bottoms of the spines from the next photo:



I haven't looked closer to see if I could read any of the other titles, but I'm getting the feeling these may not be the droids records I'm looking for. Mainly I'd want to see if they had any Horace Silver records, but from what little I can read of the spines, most of this is country & western, and folk music.

 

[AM Matt]

Great Country song:

 

[Moritat]

It is irteresting and a little sad that the square old fashioned stuff on the label is where Dot made all their money. The generation before us ate this stuff up and kept the label profitable. On the other hand, the fine jazz lps on Dot probably didn't make a cent and possibly were produced at a loss. So with the fortune they made with the bland uninteresting artists, they were able to afford to release some unprofitable albums that were creative artistic and original. It says something about the buying public and is also very ironic.

 

[Rudy]

So with the fortune they made with the bland uninteresting artists, they were able to afford to release some unprofitable albums that were creative artistic and original.

I also get the impression that as the Paramount (after the Gulf & Western acquisition) corporate belt tightened, Dot put their entire back catalog out of print in favor of all the country artists. I really wonder how much that really helped their bottom line, as the label became defunct a few years later, absorbed into ABC-Paramount (which itself was later folded into MCA Records).

 

[Moritat]

I also get the impression that as the Paramount (after the Gulf & Western acquisition) corporate belt tightened, Dot put their entire back catalog out of print in favor of all the country artists. I really wonder how much that really helped their bottom line, as the label became defunct a few years later, absorbed into ABC-Paramount (which itself was later folded into MCA Records).

Yes, that country stuff was pathetic. Like a record company commiting suicide. Also, the sound on the Dot Paramount lps from 1968 and after was awful. The fidelity from the original label they used from 1958 thru the mid 60s was excellent, but I think Paramount started using subpar vinyl. The only Paramount Dot I ever liked was a fine lp by Ike Cole from 1969. By then, the labels best days were far behind them.

 

[JOv2]

This inner sleeve is probably from mid ’67 — based on MAR67 Somethin’ Stupid’s release. Here are a few takeaways:

• One side of the sleeve are LPs from before 1963 — with half the page from the 1950s (well, the sleeve does say "all time best selling albums").
• There now are "over" 600 Dot LPs; yet the full colour catalogue still runs 10 cents (90 cents in 2023 dollars, which seems like a bargain).
• Based on this inner sleeve, The Lennon Sisters’ LP is the hippest thing going for Dot in the pop world, though Georgy Girl and There’s a Kind of Hush are hardly representative of the new progressive pop music of 1967; nevertheless, such new material would actually become a mainstay for Billy Vaughn’s "easily listening" excursions by 1968.
• It’s actually more interesting to see what new releases the marketing dept left off the inner sleeve. Using Luis Bonfa’s LP (25804) as the most recent release on the inner sleeve and working backward numerically the marketing folks left off the following then-recent releases:
  • Harry James (25801) — left the label in ’67
  • Pat Boone (25798) — was in the process of leaving the label
  • Billy Vaughn (25976) — released about 4 LPs/year; is elsewhere on the sleeve
  • Barbara Eden (25975) — can’t figure this one out: she was a well known TV star and immediately recognizable in her TV show get-up. Perhaps her TV contract limited her exposure elsewhere

In mid-67 Dot and A&M were similar in that there were no artists fully representing the new pop of the day. True, A&M wasn’t as square as Dot given A&M was appealing to music buyers with "new" contemporary sounding music and a younger roster — still, both labels were embracing seasoned LP buyers and neither label was routinely featuring the numerous excellent young pop songwriters who were emerging at that time. However, this was all about to change… For A&M, Boyce & Hart (4126; SEP67) was a good step in the new pop direction (though they were not a band) and The Merry-Go-Round (4132; NOV67) being a working band was A&M’s first real salvo acknowledging the new pop. More importantly, however, was Lee Michaels debute LP (4140; probably MAR68) — which was an A&M LP of contemporary music presented in a singular style that sounded like nothing else the label had perviously issued: Put another way: while Herb, Julius and Sergio could creatively re-work the music of Boyce & Hart and Emmitt Rhodes (The Merry-Go-Round’s songwriter) if they so desired; I would wager that there was little-to-nothing on the Lee Michaels’ LP that they would even bother with…For Dot the transition would be slower owing to their larger roster of seasoned pop artists with firm roots in the 1950s and 1940s.

 

[Rudy]

Mr. Spock's Music from Outer Space.

I'd have to file that with any of the William Shatner albums, and Brent Spiner's Ol' Yellow Eyes is Back.

 

[Harry]

Mr. Spock's Music from Outer Space.

I'd have to file that with any of the William Shatner albums, and Brent Spiner's Ol' Yellow Eyes is Back.

I used to own that Mr. Spock album. It was borrowed from me and never returned.

 

[AM Matt]

Leonard Nimoy discography (which he made 5 albums for Dot label from 1967 till 1970). Only "The New World of Leonard Nimoy" his last album for Dot in 1970 is missing from Apple iTunes. Leonard Nimoy discography - Wikipedia

 

[Michael Hagerty]

These are the things (Leonard Nimoy albums) that happen when a film/TV company buys a record label. It almost never pays off the way the execs think it will. Colgems was probably the exception, but if the Monkees had stiffed out of the gate or been one-hit wonders, that'd have been in the other column.

 

[JOv2]

This inner sleeve is probably from mid/late ’68. The night-and-day differences could at times be dizzying in the pop LP business during 1966-70. Case and point, Dot Records: relative to the mid ’67 sleeve this sleeve showcases a different record company.

• No million-seller LPs from 1957 here — rather, only recent issues are featured: The Mission Impossible s/t (Lalo Schifrin) from DEC67 was the oldest LP on the inner sleeve. (The Mills Bros’ Fortuosity was released earlier in ’67, but it didn’t chart until MAR 68 when Cab Driver became an unexpected Top-40 hit — hence its inclusion here. Note also how the Cab Driver cover was "redesigned" solely for the inner sleeve with the then-new Dot logo even though the LP cover itself was not redesigned and always featured the original Dot logo with its distinguished stylized cursive.)
• One of the many hideous Leonard Nimoy LPs is noted.
• The Split Level (with Liz Seneff from Dave Guard’s old folk group) is an uncommonly good record of new pop material. The LP is nearly wholly composed of songs from two group members. This was their only LP.
• The Billy Vaughn singers are squaresville (in terms of group singing on a par with Conniff).
• Rita Moss. Back in HS one of my mom’s friends suggested one of Moss’ LPs to me, but it just wasn’t for my ears. All these years later I remain unable to appreciate her unique singing ability.
• Bonnie Guitar. Someone else I just could never appreciate. I understand Bonnie had a career as a songwriter as well.
• The Phil Flowers LP is solid (if you’re into soul-stylized singing).
• I like Lyn Roman and have both of her Dot LPs.
• There was an annoying vogue there for awhile in the mid/late '60s to speak song lyrics rather than to sing them (Glen Yarborough, among others, could shoulder some of the blame as he littered several of his LPs with some of that Rod McKuen shenanigans).
• If you’re into Lalo Schifrin, then his solo Dot LP is probably up your alley (he only cut two for LPs the label).
• Colours is a very good pop/rock LP. Highly recommended and re-issued years ago by Now Sounds (UK).
• Unlike the previous sleeve, one year later, now the marketing dept is throwing only new LPs at us. Here’s what they left out:
  • 25832 — (soundtrack)
  • 25833 — (not assigned)
  • 25834 — Count Basie — left the label in ’68
  • 25842 — The Soul Society
  • 25843 — Ernie Andrews — left the label in ’68
  • 25845 — (soundtrack)
  • 25853 — (not assigned)
  • 25856 — (re-issue)
  • 25860 — Jimmy Haskell Orchestra
• One Dot LP released later in1968 that I have that’s worth noting is 25893, Nancy Priddy. A rare gatefold for Dot, the LP was produced by Phil Ramon (Paul Simon’s future long-time producer). The LP was re-issued on CD by Rev-Ola (UK) years ago and is a fine LP of the new pop music. (Nancy Priddy, of course, was the female muse for Stephen Stills’ Buffalo Springfield song, Pretty Girl, Why?)

By 1969, A&M fully embraced the direction pop took and never looked back while dot was poised to embrace C&W. From Both Sides Now:

In 1968, Gulf+Western bought Paramount, and changed the Dot label design, as well as the focus of the label. The G+W logo started appearing on Dot albums about at record 25852. Shortly after, they went to stereo-only issues. As for new product, Dot started drifting more to country under Gulf+Western, and by the time Dot was merged with ABC in 1974, was more or less exclusively a country label. ​

​

Not that from a "bottom line" standpoint, this was bad. Dot had been in the doldrums ever since 1964, and the emphasis on country music brought a lot of fresh new talent to the label. Dot was back in the charts on a regular basis, even if it was the country charts. The roster from 1968-1975 reads like a chapter out of a C&W Who's Who: Freddy Fender, Roy Clark, Barbara Mandrell, Billy "Crash" Craddock, Narvel Felts, the Oak Ridge Boys, Don Williams, Tommy Overstreet, John Wesley Ryles, Johnny Carver, Donna Fargo, Red Steagall, Ray Price, Joe Stampley, Buck Trent, Sue Richards, Eddy Raven, Diana Trask, Ray Griff, and Ray Pillow. For the ones who grew up with rock and roll, there was even a few rock and roll alumni-turned-country: Doug Sahm (Sir Douglas Quintet), Joe Barry ("I'm a Fool to Care"), and Freddy Weller (ex-Paul Revere & the Raiders). ​

​

Somewhere along the way in this country transition, seemingly overnight, Gulf+Western deleted the entire Dot back catalog. At the beginning of 1972, the usual corporate shifting put Paramount under the distribution of "Famous Music, a Gulf+Western Company." Famous Music was the music publishing arm of Paramount Pictures.​

 

[Harry]

I had the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE album and have the updated version on CD (MCA/One Way Records)

 

[lj]

I remember reading in Parade Magazine circa 1970 that the un-hip Lawrence Welk who recorded for Dot was laughing all the way to the bank due to his immense real estate holdings in California. I remember how pretty his daughter in law Tanya was and the Lennon Sisters too. They all could carry a tune. In 1961 Welk struck gold going #1 with "Calcutta". It's a catchy song which I like. Have a listen.

 

[JOv2]

(Oh, I failed to point out that the LP of talking rather than singing was by Greg Morris (Barney from Mission Impossible).)

 

[Bobberman]

I remember reading in Parade Magazine circa 1970 that the un-hip Lawrence Welk who recorded for Dot was laughing all the way to the bank due to his immense real estate holdings in California. I remember how pretty his daughter in law Tanya was and the Lennon Sisters too. They all could carry a tune. In 1961 Welk struck gold going #1 with "Calcutta". It's a catchy song which I like. Have a listen.

As Mr Welk would say " Wonderful Wonderful "

 

[lj]

How does one explain the astonishing longevity of the Lawrence Welk Show on television--it was a grand total of 61 years--a record never to be broken--from 1955-1982, first on ABC and then in syndication for 27 years, and then from 1987-2021 with weekly repeat episodes and specials on PBS for 34 years-- 27+34=61. Truly amazing! Well, I have a theory. Welk's base of support came from the Greatest Generation which lived through the trauma of the Great Depression and World War 2. His calm, safe, and unthreatening music was a musical antidote for the earlier historical upheavals they had lived through. PBS said his shows during their pledge breaks were always the highest rated. Those viewers from that era were extremely loyal.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

How does one explain the astonishing longevity of the Lawrence Welk Show on television--it was a grand total of 61 years--a record never to be broken--from 1955-1982, first on ABC and then in syndication for 27 years, and then from 1987-2021 with weekly repeat episodes and specials on PBS for 34 years-- 27+34=61. Truly amazing! Well, I have a theory. Welk's base of support came from the Greatest Generation which lived through the trauma of the Great Depression and World War 2. His calm, safe, and unthreatening music was a musical antidote for the earlier historical upheavals they had lived through. PBS said his shows during their pledge breaks were always the highest rated. Those viewers from that era were extremely loyal.

It's close---but I think you're off by a generation. Welk's most fervent fan base in his ABC years (1955-1971) were people old enough to have survived the 1918 Flu Epidemic and World War I, as well as the traumas you cite. His contemporaries, in other words (Welk was born in 1903).

And he didn't land, fully formed, on network TV one night in 1955---he'd been on local Los Angeles TV for four years prior, and toured extensively in the 1930s and 40s.

As for its continuing popularity since it went off the air, that's nostalgia.

While researching a different topic, I learned yesterday that there are 2.7 million Americans over the age of 90 at present. Those are folks whose parents probably were Welk fans.

And then you have the generations beyond---my grandmother wouldn't miss Welk's show and it just happened to air the one night a week we had dinner at her house. So, at 67 next month, I know who Lawrence Welk is, and once in a great while, if I see it's running on PBS, I'll tune in. I don't last long, but I'll tune in.

 

[Bobberman]

My Grandmother and my parents had Lawrence welk on the TV every Saturday night being I was born during his ABC Run in 1967 I actually liked the show for the music and I found Mr Welk very humorous and always positive in his attitude. ( he must have taken his Geritol everyday) being a kid watching it I was inspired by the musicianship. And the unity of the group I understand its not everybody's cup of tea but for a musically open kid raised in the country like myself it got my attention

 

[Rudy]

Back in my teens, I think we just turned it on over dinner on Saturday for the giggles. It's not that the music was bad, but the whole show came across as a hopelessly square anachronism, awkwardly well past its prime musically, yet it was still like a constant that would always be there as a reminder of what life (and music) used to be in decades past. Almost like a happy place to return to.

Funny thing is, my grandmother never had anything to do with Welk's show. There might have been a small touch of "classical music snob" happening there. Not that she'd hate it, but she'd pass it off as corny. Yet my mother also gave my grandmother grief for buying a Richard Clayderman album...and liking it.

 

[Bobberman]

Back in my teens, I think we just turned it on over dinner on Saturday for the giggles. It's not that the music was bad, but the whole show came across as a hopelessly square anachronism, awkwardly well past its prime musically, yet it was still like a constant that would always be there as a reminder of what life (and music) used to be in decades past. Almost like a happy place to return to.

Funny thing is, my grandmother never had anything to do with Welk's show. There might have been a small touch of "classical music snob" happening there. Not that she'd hate it, but she'd pass it off as corny. Yet my mother also gave my grandmother grief for buying a Richard Clayderman album...and liking it.

I happen to like Richard Clayderman he was one of the last Easy Listening instrumentalists to receive Radio airplay before the Easy listening radio format Disappeared completely.

 

[bob knack]

WELKISMS

 

[Bobberman]

WELKISMS

Those were just a few compared to the many more he did but they were legendary and funny in a weird sort of way

 

[Mr Bill]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I will just say that I am rather partial to Mr. Nimoy's albums. While not necessarily Grammy material, I prefer them over Shatner's in any case!

My favorites are "Bilbo Baggins," a nice ode to a classic fantasy character (One person commented, "The story Nimoy tells in three minutes took Peter Jackson eight hours to tell" Lol)... "Highly Illogical," a humorous Spock observation on the human condition at the time it was written/recorded) and "Cotton Candy," a straight love ballad (written by a member of the Star Trek camera crew). I won't post links, but all can be easily found on YouTube...

--Mr Bill