The evolution of their live music: what worked? What didn't?

[CarpentersToYou]

Hello all. I've been thinking about this lately since I have been re-exploring the live albums due to the extra time that covid-19 has gifted us to reflect.

This has been something I've discussed with fans before, and something that is sometimes touched in threads here: but what do you feel worked and didn't work when the Carpenters were on stage? Admittedly, their concerts can seem on the boring side, if you ask me. And they evolved very little in the way their shows ran with their set lists. To me, the worst was fitting in a medley of their hits. So many of the songs deserved to be played out in full. And like many artists, they never focused much on songs they recently recorded - especially from 1974 on. Truthfully I find their earlier concerts to be more exciting.

The oldies medley was fun. But to me that should have stopped after the first tour they did. I suppose "it worked", so they decided to not change much. They did throw in a few nuggets - "I Need To Be in Love" and "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" - but they sure missed the chance to show off Karen's voice in some of their later hits on stage. I do wonder how their sound would have "evolved" if they had toured live for Made in America.

Penny for your thoughts?

 

[newvillefan]

Their stage shows could have been much, much more majestic than they were. On most tours up 1974 they seemed to just tear through the show and the hits. In 1976, they made the mistake of shifting the focus away from Karen onto Richard and his segments were boring and interrupted the flow of the concerts. Management could and should have come up with better ways of letting the public know he was the brains behind the outfit. The entire publicity engine around them should have educated the public long before 1976 that he was in fact in charge of the whole operation. Having him come onstage first and tapping the rostrum like a headmaster just smacked of ego. If I’d been in the audience my immediate thoughts would have been “lacklustre opening” and “where’s Karen?”.

By 1977 they’d really shifted a gear including ambitious tracks such as “Argentina” and even “Ave Maria”. I’ve heard the bootleg audio of those 1977 appearance and I can imagine people sitting there with open mouths. Had they continued along those lines, they could have had some really ambitious tours in the 1980s.

 

[CarpentersToYou]

You're exactly right, Stephen. When the shifted towards Richard things took a turn south. While Richard is no doubt talented when he plays the Warsaw concerto, few people go to a pop concert and expect a long Classical song. For me the "Love Sounds" Japanese concert special is among their best footage that we have of them in concert. Karen is captivating.

 

[Harry]

One of the things that did work was the expanded "Bacharach-David Medley" that they did a little slower than the rush job that they did on the CARPENTERS (tan) album.

Here's an excerpt of just the "Knowing When To Leave Song":

 

[CarpentersToYou]

Harry, you’re right in the money there. Karen really could break your heart with “Make it easy on yourself” (especially in 1980). The Bacharach-David medley live was always fantastic, and I agree, better than the tan album.

 

[newvillefan]

One of the things that did work was the expanded "Bacharach-David Medley" that they did a little slower than the rush job that they did on the CARPENTERS (tan) album.

Of all the official audio of their concert tours, that extended medley is my absolute favourite.

 

[Mark-T]

I found the opening with just Richard rather unique. The build up until Karen came out really got the crowd going. Sticking with that, then go into one of the mega hits like Superstar before branching out could have established it all better. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the Palladium line up (sans Warsaw and Jambalaya) but it could have been a better overall show.

I liked Warsaw Concerto, but it is too long a piece for a concert setting. I get Karen needed time to change outfits though, if that's what they wanted her to do. I think Slaughter on 10th Avenue is much more fun, making a better replacement.

They could even have used Yesterday Once More as a lead in to an Oldies Medley with Postman and Hush interspersed with some concert only remakes.

Then let Karen sit on a stool and do some jazzy, blues moments. Masquerade, Ordinary Fool, I Need to Be in Love, etc. Close out the show with the songs that made them a hold hold name. Their hits deserved at least a few full length versions.

 

[David A]

One of the things that did work was the expanded "Bacharach-David Medley" that they did a little slower than the rush job that they did on the CARPENTERS (tan) album.

Here's an excerpt of just the "Knowing When To Leave Song":

I'd not heard this before and, while very lush, polished and orchestral (and slower), I actually prefer the more uptempo version. The job they did on the Revolver video we see on youtube in 1970 is one of my favorites.

The issue of the decision to open with Richard in their concerts has been discussed at length elsewhere, and I agree with @newvillefan that management should have found a way to give Richard his well-earned and proper due without turning to this solution, which just didn't make sense.

 

[Martin Medrano]

It would have been nice if they sang lesser known songs like happy or im caught between goodbye and I love you. This would have been nice to hear.

 

[ullalume]

It would have been interesting to see how their proposed '83 concert would have shaped up.

 

[GaryAlan]

Omitting "And When He Smiles" from later concerts....that was a mistake. An ideal song for Karen's vocals and drumming.
The Japan 1972 concert has her "sliding" notes at the end of the song("...kneeeew...").
Glad they omitted "I Fell In Love With You" from later concerts ( interesting song, but, too fast for my tastes, w/talking).

 

[Harry]

Karen really could break your heart with “Make it easy on yourself”

 

[CarpentersToYou]

Oh, man, Harry! That clip does it all. You believe every single word that she sings and you feel every bit if that pain! Those low notes...such brilliance in interpreting. That touches deep down in my soul!

 

[Proudofyou]

Maybe a few guest collabs here and there.

 

[Mark-T]

I love this live version, but the MMM version of MIEOY just totally kills me.

 

[Alan71]

I got the Live at The Palladium CD last year (mainly to complete my collection of non-greatest hits albums) and yes, I have to say I agree with CarpentersToYou and others on here that their shows were a bit “safe” and sadly a bit dull.

I never saw them live but that album certainly gave me a taster. It has 10 big hits crammed into a 15-minute medley, almost as though they felt they ought to. The focus seemed to be on Richard and making it more of a musical show than a pop concert. On a live album it’s OK but if I’d attended one of those concerts I’m quite sure I’d have come out feeling a bit disappointed.

 

[A&M Retro]

Alan, you’d have enjoyed the earlier shows much more with the songs being done in their entirety. Plus, Karen was still drumming a lot in those days. The Australia show taped in black and white really captures them ‘live’ very well, I think.

 

[CarpentersToYou]

People seldom mention the Love Sounds 1972 at the Budokan. It’s probably my favorite concert of theirs.

 

[Geographer]

I liked Warsaw Concerto, but it is too long a piece for a concert setting. I get Karen needed time to change outfits though, if that's what they wanted her to do. I think Slaughter on 10th Avenue is much more fun, making a better replacement.

They could even have used Yesterday Once More as a lead in to an Oldies Medley with Postman and Hush interspersed with some concert only remakes.

Then let Karen sit on a stool and do some jazzy, blues moments. Masquerade, Ordinary Fool, I Need to Be in Love, etc. Close out the show with the songs that made them a hold hold name. Their hits deserved at least a few full length versions.

Yes. This. Especially the Slaughter on 10th Avenue.

 

[Carpe diem]

My two cents...I never liked the way they turned 3 of their greatest hits, Superstar, Rainy Days & Mondays, and Goodbye To Love into a medley (Ref: The Tonight Show 1973 & 1978). If I had attended one of their concerts back in their heyday (which unfortunately I did not ) I would want the full-length versions of those songs. Even as early as the 1971 BBC TV Special, they had paired down We've Only Just Begun, specifically the lyrics "Before the risin' sun, we fly" (my favorite part of the song) to just "we fly". And then you have great performances that would have excelled at a concert setting completely ignored. Namely: A Song For You, This Masquerade, Road Ode, etc...Really, how great would it have been to bring the lights down at a Carpenters performance with just Karen singing Road Ode with piano accompaniment from Richard? Chill factor indeed!

 

[Martin Medrano]

It would have been nice to hear this Masquerade live because that song had a great drum part. Imagine karen drumming on this song live.

 

[David A]

My two cents...I never liked the way they turned 3 of their greatest hits, Superstar, Rainy Days & Mondays, and Goodbye To Love into a medley (Ref: The Tonight Show 1973 & 1978). If I had attended one of their concerts back in their heyday (which unfortunately I did not ) I would want the full-length versions of those songs. Even as early as the 1971 BBC TV Special, they had paired down We've Only Just Begun, specifically the lyrics "Before the risin' sun, we fly" (my favorite part of the song) to just "we fly". And then you have great performances that would have excelled at a concert setting completely ignored. Namely: A Song For You, This Masquerade, Road Ode, etc...Really, how great would it have been to bring the lights down at a Carpenters performance with just Karen singing Road Ode with piano accompaniment from Richard? Chill factor indeed!

It would be interesting to know why they created that truncated medley for several of their biggest hit songs. Maybe that's been answered elsewhere on this forum, dunno. I have read with other groups that one of the reasons an artist might do this is because they are _so_ tired of singing them, and it get's difficult to render them in full with the emotion the audience would expect.

Edit: "playing" them, not just singing them.

 

[A&M Retro]

That’s a really good question! I can see how it might be necessary for a TV appearance, but those 3 songs especially should have been heard from start to finish.

 

[Geographer]

It would be interesting to know why they created that truncated medley for several of their biggest hit songs. Maybe that's been answered elsewhere on this forum, dunno. I have read with other groups that one of the reasons an artist might do this is because they are _so_ tired of singing them, and it get's difficult to render them in full with the emotion the audience would expect.

Edit: "playing" them, not just singing them.

Honestly, I think it was because they had SO MANY hits, if they did them all as complete songs, it wouldn't leave them much time for anything else. And, they were already being skewered by the critics for a "boring" show.

 

[Carpe diem]

"if you really love her, and there's nothing I can do
don't try to spare my feelings, just tell her that we're through..."

"and if the way I hold you, can't compare to her caress
no words of consolation, will make me miss you less..."

emphasis on caress and consolation

Karen moaning those lyrics with that bedroom voice...