"The Lonely Bull" Pressing Question

reechie

Well-Known Member
I've just acquired a sealed, apparently vintage stereo copy of "The Lonely Bull" LP, and I'm trying to identify approximately when it was pressed, without actually opening it (No need, as I have others to play). In comparing it to an opened copy from around 1965 (based on the albums shown on the inner sleeve), the main differences I detect are that the sealed copy has a noticeably clearer and more natural color cover photo, and on the back cover, a small number "4" in the lower right hand corner that doesn't appear on the '65 copy. Looking through the versions listed on Discogs, the only version I can find with the "4" on the cover is this one:
Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass - The Lonely Bull

If I'm not misreading it, this would make it an early copy. Does anyone know what that "4" indicates?
 
I can think of a few things that might make an older, unsealed copy appear less clear and sharp than a sealed copy -- fading (from either sunlight or UV light from other sources), scuffing, or just a different press run. The two examples could be from the same factory on the same day and look totally different after 50+ years, given their storage circumstances.

I have no idea about the little "4" on the back. Maybe it is an indicator of where it was printed, or the press operator. I don't have a TLB vinyl anymore to compare, unfortunately. But somebody on here is bound to chime in.
 
If I'm not misreading it, this would make it an early copy. Does anyone know what that "4" indicates?

It is a 4th pressing. But no outward way of knowing what the pressing runs were or when they were pressed. Also look at the number - the first stereo pressings of THE LONELY BULL were 101S. Later the number was SP 4101 (which is a version I also have with a 4 on the back cover). It later became SP 3101 when it moved to the Mid-Line (re-issue) series.

A&M used the prefix LP for monaural (with three digits following) and SP for stereo, initially followed by three digits, but a few albums in, they also put a 4 after the SP, for example BAJA MARIMBA BAND RIDES AGAIN (1965) mono was LP 109, stereo was SP 4109. Another thing to look for is the trademark symbol on the A&M logo - the 1st album to have it was Sergio's LOOK AROUND (SP 4137) in 1967.

So I would approximate that the 4th pressing was at least 1965, maybe a bit later.
 
Thanks, that actually gives me a lot of info. This one appears to indeed be a 1001S (# in lower left hand corner of the cover.). I see no SP 4 or 3103 anywhere on the cover. I suspected the "4" was a pressing number, thanks for confirming that. Needs more investigating, but this gives me some more clues to work with.
 
Thanks, that actually gives me a lot of info. This one appears to indeed be a 1001S (# in lower left hand corner of the cover.). I see no SP 4 or 3103 anywhere on the cover. I suspected the "4" was a pressing number, thanks for confirming that. Needs more investigating, but this gives me some more clues to work with.
Here is something of interest that I found on a copy of Lonely Bull. There is a C in the lower right hand corner of my copy, labeled as ST 101. The label of the record itself says Made in Canada so I am guessing the C stands for Canada issues if it is on any other albums.
 
Quality Records of Canada distributed A&M product north of the border before A&M opened offices there.
 
I found a mono copy of this album in a thrift store today. I always look at the records for condition before I buy them.
I kept this one since I did not have a mono copy. The album title is not on the record itself.
It just says Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass.
Does anyone else have this issue or is it a rarity?
It also has the number 4 in the lower right hand corner of the back cover.
 
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I found a mono copy of this album in a thrift store today. I always look at the records for condition before I buy them.
I kept this one since I did not have a mono copy. The album title is not on the record itself.
It just says Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass.
Does anyone else have this issue or is it a rarity?
It also has the number 4 in the lower right hand corner of the back cover.
Not rare. I've got a bunch.
 
A store near me used to have several mono copies any time I visited there, and usually had mono copies of all the TJB records on hand. I haven't been there in years...
 
It'll be hard to find a clean one at this late date. Most will have a lot of groove burn, especially towards the end of each side. The old monaural records were not played on the best of equipment back in the day.

Incidentally, once a record is opened, we can't rely on the jacket or innersleeve belonging to the record inside. Some dealers will Frankenstein together a good saleable copy if they have two on hand--one copy might have a trashed record, and the other might have a jacket that was water stained or torn. Why sell two "damaged" sets when a good one can be cobbled together from the best parts of both?
 
It'll be hard to find a clean one at this late date. Most will have a lot of groove burn, especially towards the end of each side. The old monaural records were not played on the best of equipment back in the day.

Incidentally, once a record is opened, we can't rely on the jacket or innersleeve belonging to the record inside. Some dealers will Frankenstein together a good saleable copy if they have two on hand--one copy might have a trashed record, and the other might have a jacket that was water stained or torn. Why sell two "damaged" sets when a good one can be cobbled together from the best parts of both?
The inner sleeve was not from A&M but the lp was probably with its correct jacket which still had its shrink wrap but opened. This particular thrift store where I found this is one I go to regularly and I found 5 old A&M lps that were not there a couple of weeks ago. They may have all arrived from the same person.
 
I've got this one, as well. I've only ever seen one of them. Are they fairly common in this label configuration?
I don't know about other parts of the country, but of all the dozens of copies I've looked at in our used record stores, I've never seen this label. It's always the later tan label.
 
I've never actually run across one either. All of mine are the later ochre label. My George McCurn album label is like that though.
 
Yep, ol' George never was that popular to get a second pressing run...
 
It is a 4th pressing. But no outward way of knowing what the pressing runs were or when they were pressed. Also look at the number - the first stereo pressings of THE LONELY BULL were 101S. Later the number was SP 4101 (which is a version I also have with a 4 on the back cover). It later became SP 3101 when it moved to the Mid-Line (re-issue) series.

A&M used the prefix LP for monaural (with three digits following) and SP for stereo, initially followed by three digits, but a few albums in, they also put a 4 after the SP, for example BAJA MARIMBA BAND RIDES AGAIN (1965) mono was LP 109, stereo was SP 4109. Another thing to look for is the trademark symbol on the A&M logo - the 1st album to have it was Sergio's LOOK AROUND (SP 4137) in 1967.

So I would approximate that the 4th pressing was at least 1965, maybe a bit later.


Probably NOT an indication that is was a 4th pressing at all.
The 4 on the cover is a jacket printer identifier/location that the album cover was manufactured.
 
I've never correlated jackets to pressings myself, although chances are better a specific run of record pressings coincided with a specific run of jackets, which might be the best connection we could make from it. And sometimes it's easier to guess when an album was pressed from its original innersleeve.

There's always the issue of what metal parts were used to press the albums, and that is another thorny subject. It's harder with A&M, but with labels like RCA where they had their own pressing facilities, it's not uncommon to find some older stamper numbers from the late 50s through the 60s among some late 60s to early 70s reissues.

Largely in used record shopping, I never count on the record being in its original jacket, due to dealers making one good copy out of two bad ones (one with a bad jacket, the other with a bad record).
 
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