The official WHAT NOW MY LOVE comments thread and poll

What is your favorite track?

  • What Now My Love

    Votes: 14 23.3%
  • Freckles

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • Memories Of Madrid

    Votes: 12 20.0%
  • It Was A Very Good Year

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • So What's New?

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • Plucky

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Magic Trumpet

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • Cantina Blue

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • Brasilia

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • If I Were A Rich Man

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Five Minutes More

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • The Shadow Of Your Smile

    Votes: 6 10.0%

  • Total voters
    60
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He would probably like "Brasilia" better if he heard the "tromboned" version. It was my early favorite on the album.

"Freckles" is my favorite track on the album these days, along with the title song. I used to like "Magic Trumpet" a lot back in the day, but now it's my least favorite on the album. And I used to hate the slow songs but now I like all of them. Funny what growing up will do.
 
That "tromboned" version appeared on the MUSIC BOX compilation that was released in conjunction with "Bank Americard".

Harry
 
Harry said:
That "tromboned" version appeared on the MUSIC BOX compilation that was released in conjunction with "Bank Americard".

Harry

Harry, do you know if it still available?
 
Larry said:
Harry, do you know if it still available?

Not to answer for Harry, but I see plenty of copies in the bins at local used record shops and thrift stores.

--Mr. Bill
 
Looks like this:

sp19006.jpg


Our thread on it is here: http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2722

Harry
 
You can also easily find it on eBay, Gemm, Amazon...

I remember when MUSIC BOX came out I was much more excited to hear "Bo-Bo" and "My Heart Belongs to Daddy," because I hadn't heard them yet. It also led me to thinking "Daddy" should have been the lead track for HERB ALPERT'S NINTH...or at least should have led-off side 2!
 
Nice review. But don't expect your short shrift of "Brasilia" to go unpunished around these parts where it's a fan favorite!

By now you're probably wondering what all the hubbub's about -- with all these reviews: The short version...well, see this guy in Nigeria will pay me $35,000 if I'd...Ha! Just kidding. Seriously, like most kids who grew up in the '70s, I have fond recollections from my childhood of "A&M sounds" -- it just seemed like that interesting looking green/brown label and those two big letters with the squiggly thing between promised great things (with the exception of my older bro's Blodwin Pig LP -- that one scared me!!).

My first instrument was a drum set and I used to bang to Peanuts...probably only because I could time the cymbal crash right (yeah, I bet that crappyass cymbal sound rivaled a garbage can lid...). Later, in high school, I rediscovered the music when, and as a trumpeter, I was investigating lead-trumpet music. In the pop bag, Doc Severinsin was too technical -- and all those high notes were just not interesting to me. Al Hirt had a propensity to play wayy too many notes...and again, the aerial show was of no interest. Too much showboating and not enough m u s i c . I hadn't yet discovered the world of Kenny Dorham, Booker Little and Freddie Hubbard, so the jazz input was nil...

That left Herb as the best known remaining pop trumpeter.

I quickly discovered about half the TjB LPs were out of print, and following a fruitless phone call to A&M (to see if they'd sell me any left over stock...), I started mail ordering the LPs I couldn't find (used from shops in Hollywood...I grew up in the Santa Ynez valley -- behind Santa Barbara).

On this site about three years ago, I read all the hoopla about the forthcoming re-issue campaign...I actually waited quite a spell (couple years), but eventually purchased all the original issues. My feeling about the music has changed considerably since the previous two hot periods. I'm not a TjB/Herb Alpert fan...I'm a good music fan -- specifically thoughtful songwriting, inventive arrangements, and seductive performances (record engineering quality is a distant 4th place). Herb made some good music and some not-so-good music during a time when competition in the pop arena was the fiercest cultural main event. He also managed to straddle the growing generation gap for a year or two as well -- a most noteworthy achievement. (Back in the '60s, LPs were a chief receptacle for discretionary income...unlike today where all those electronic gizmos and that pseudo-fancy-"looking" crap from China are of more interest to an increasingly self-absorbed general public.) Additionally, Herb, like most '60s artists, still made LPs the old-fashioned way: wanting to sell the same record to as many people as possible by attracting the largest audience...normally by issuing an LP that promised "something for everyone" (the Beatles were the modern pacesetters in this realm) as opposed to refining a singular sound and targeting a select audience...which appears to be the approach since the '70s.

OK, enough of that. Back to Friday night, a cold can of Schlitz, and this reply...

You're right, Mike B. -- I'd probably like the original Brasilia version better -- Bob's contributions always seem to improve things. And although it's apparent I'm not a fan of lightweight/throwaway songs and arrangements -- the likes of which dominate side 2 of Whipped Cream & Other Delights-- it's welcoming to hear how much Herb matured in this area: by WNML, Brasilia is the the closest thing to obvious filler.

-James
 
JO said:
...My first instrument was a drum set and I used to bang to "Peanuts"... ...Probably only because I could time the cymbal crash right... (Yeah, I bet that crappy-ass cymbal sound rivaled a garbage can lid...!)


Yow, I remember my first Drum Set, too (The Smurfs were on the Bass Drum, 'til I covered 'em up w/ white contact paper) and the cymbals sounded more like I was banging on my mom's pots & pans...

I wanted a "Syn Drum" sound which sounded like a "Handclap" so I also banged on Sheets of Paper (which were "scrap" sheets I drew pictures on, which were "goofs"...) and recorded myself playing... (and fairly damn well, too!)

Years later I came home with a real drum set, which of course wasn't as much fun, and I quickly sold as somehow it proved not to be the right instrrument for me...



Dave
 
I'd probably like the original Brasilia version better -- Bob's contributions always seem to improve things.
It's not just his 'bone fill...the CD version of the song has the guitar and marimba mixed lower too, so really you mostly just hear bass and drums in the background. But the song is a simplistic one, so the fuller arrangement still might not sway your boat. It was my top favorite on the album when it first came out (I was 11), and I still like the song a lot, but others have moved to the top of my favorites list.
 
Has everyone here heard these differences, or no? Just curious.
 
Me too, but it's been YEARS since I've heard the 'boned Brasilia all the way thru. The WHAT NOW album was one of the first LPs I ever purchased, and it was played to death on the family "phonograph," an RCA cabinet model with a half-pound tone arm. By the time I got a real turntable, the highs were pretty much worn off that record!
 
Those were the days when a little curl of vinyl would be peeled out of the LP with each play. :D

Unforutnatley that's the very reason I've had so much bad luck buying good TJB vinyl. Even if it looks clean and flawless (visual graded), the groove wear is unlistenable. It usually takes a few copies before you find one that's playable... *sigh*
 
Yow, I remember my first Drum Set, too (The Smurfs were on the Bass Drum, 'til I covered 'em up w/ white contact paper) and the cymbals sounded more like I was banging on my mom's pots & pans...
I wanted a "Syn Drum" sound which sounded like a "Handclap" so I also banged on Sheets of Paper (which were "scrap" sheets I drew pictures on, which were "goofs"...) and recorded myself playing... (and fairly damn well, too!)
Dang, Dave -- sounds like you had quite a time! I ended up with what must've been a late '60s "Woolworth's/kids special". It'd actually been passed around the block a few times (Bacon's --> White's --> McDonald's...I think we got it after the Beardsley's...). The area was fairly liberal in the early '70s so a drum set in a six-year-old's room wasn't a big leap -- though, it only lasted about 1 week...my mom and sisters had enough !!! and it was banished to the garage. (I don't recall what happened next!) Fast forward to about six years ago, when I finally bought a real drum kit...but the first night the tom-tom drum heads weren't ready so I brought in the pots and pans to fill out the set for my first jam! Ha!

Hey, Mike -- I got a chance to hear the original Brasilia. You're right! The fuller arrangement brings more meat into the song. Definitely takes it up a notch! Thanks for detailing out the difference.

...and it was played to death on the family "phonograph," an RCA cabinet model with a half-pound tone arm...

Ha! That's the funniest thing I've heard since the new year began!!

-James
 
Mr Bill said:
Larry said:
Harry, do you know if it still available?

Not to answer for Harry, but I see plenty of copies in the bins at local used record shops and thrift stores.

--Mr. Bill
My LP has the "Boned" version on it. I don't know what I was thinking, I thought it was available on CD when I threw in the above question. I do like the "Boned" version better than the "Boneless" one on the CD. I have compared the two versions, playing them both at the same time, and the LP doesn't even come close, sound wise anyway, to the CD. I suppose it's not fair to the LP since it is not pristine and it did play on, some 40 years ago, a Philco portable record player. My LP is the Columbia Record Club version that I bought in 1968 to replace my worn out copy that I had purchased shortly after WNML was released in 1966. I have no recollection of which version was on that 1966 LP. It is a shame that the "Boned" version of BRASILIA is not the one on the CD.
 
Larry,

A lot of A&M's LPs, if you can find them in clean condition and play them back on a good rig, sound amazingly like the CDs. With a couple of the LPs in my collection, if you A/B them with the CD simultaneously and match levels, you are hard pressed to tell a difference until you hear a really faint tick or pop. It does depend on the pressing, the plant, etc., but good ones can sound *really* good. I would hate to play back my parents' old copies of the TJB albums since they were a bit abused (a lot of it by yours truly :D ), but if I ever wanted to buy mono copies, there seem to be a few available.

In fact, I compared my bone-less version of WNML to the equivalent version on LP one night, and they were dead on. That same night, though, I played both versions of the LP on two separate turntables, and it was actually the sound of the turntable and cartridge that made such a huge difference! My Denon/Grace/Shure rig (the Shure V15VMR is practically ruler-flat in response) sounded so much better than the Music Hall turntable and Dynavector DV10X3, which sounded dull and dead in comparison. Never did like that Dynavector... *sigh*

With CD players, in other words, the differences in sound are not as pronounced, where sound quality in turntables can vary quite a bit. Of course, you have to pay a few bucks to get decent sound out of LPs, but it's worth it...especially with so many older titles that'll never see a CD release.
 
The 'boned "Brasilia" has never been on CD, much to the consternation of many of us here, which is why we directed you to LPs.

Since you have the 'boned version, it's likely that you have the "other" version of the WHAT NOW MY LOVE. You should also compare the following tracks:

What Now My Love - listen to Herb's lead trumpets. On your LP you should hear more reverb. On the CD, the sound is clearer, but drier and has less "oomph", IMHO.

So What's New - listen to the whistling part in the middle. Again, the LP should have a reverb effect on the whistling, where the CD is drier.

Plucky - the much-discussed track on the LP probably has no "bump'n'grind" section in the middle like the CD version.

Those are the main differences, easily detected. There are other, more subtle variations, some of which are also tied to the reverb effect at various points on various tracks.

That's why we're now leaning toward the opinion that this "other" mix that many of us grew up with was perhaps a stereo version made from the three-track master of the intended mono mix. The reverb was a technique in those days used to "beef up" monaural recordings to make them sound more exciting on AM radio. And that exactly describes this "other" mix, it's more exciting than the drier CD mix.

Harry
 
It was more like I was hoping the boned version was on CD when I asked the question. Harry, I listened to the LP all the way through yesterday and heard all those differences you listed.

I am afraid the LP that I have is in very poor shape. 'Twas played too many times on that Philco portable stereo. I have been using a Dual direct drive turntable with a Dual cartridge, which my not be that great. I have a Sony DD TT with a Shure V15 IV that I could haul out of storage and give the LP a spin on it and see how it sounds.

I am pretty sure that the LP of WNML that I bought (on the west coast) in '66 was the boned, reverbed and short PLUCKY version. I definitely would have remembered hearing a difference between the two PLUCKY versions. The first time I heard the bump and grind version was on CD. All I remembered was a pause.

Which version of the LP most readily turns up?

My thinking is the boned, reverbed, and short PLUCKY version should have been the one released on CD. You never know, maybe Herb preferred the drier version. The drier version of WNML has Herb's trumpet a lot more "up front" than the reverbed version. (My poor condition LP probably doesn't help.)

Now I'll have to get the "correct" version put on CD.
 
I finally did just what Larry's talking about and went through my five or six copies of the WHAT NOW MY LOVE LP and found the quietest one to dub over to CD-R. The one I used I picked up used somewhere for $0.99 - the sticker's still plastered to the front of it.

I had another one that was a close second, but the ticks and pops were a bit more frequent. Other pressings were noisier and seemingly not as well pressed with a lot of distortion. I don't think it was groove wear, just different pressing plant variations.

The "more reverb on LP" is almost a constant on just about every song when compared with the CD versions. Even tracks that don't get discussed much like "The Shadow Of Your Smile" had Herb's trumpet more in the mix with heavier reverb.

Like Larry suggests, perhaps Herb's preferred version is the one that has his trumpets more out front.

Larry, though we've termed the reverbed LP the "east coast version", I think it was more widespread than that. Virtually every LP I've run across is always the reverbed version. Chances are that if it's got the old ochre label, it's more than likely the reverbed version. Any silver-label copies out there are likely the "CD" version.

Shop around. There's always tons of them on eBay and in used bins and flea markets. Just look for one that hasn't been played to death on the ol' Victrola!

Harry
 
Harry said:
Plucky - the much-discussed track on the LP probably has no "bump'n'grind" section in the middle like the CD version.

Listen to the first and second verse closely. On the CD version, the marimba parts are double, and I think they are panned slightly different in the stereo spread. The reverbed version has only one marimba part, and sounds much cleaner.
 
I do have the short version on CD. I'll have to listen to it closely. I had it transferred from LP to CD by a service that also cleans up all the noise, about 6 years ago. I should have had the whole LP done if I had known that there were all those differences between the two versions.
 
With all this discussion of the reverbed & "boned" ochre label version of WNML I really have to have it on CD. I have contacted Stu at Worldwide Music Network to transfer the LP to CD and do the restoration. I can't wait to hear how it will sound. He says they have come along way in their restoration process compared to what they were doing 6 years or so ago.
 
Larry said:
With all this discussion of the reverbed & "boned" ochre label version of WNML I really have to have it on CD. I have contacted Stu at Worldwide Music Network to transfer the LP to CD and do the restoration. I can't wait to hear how it will sound. He says they have come along way in their restoration process compared to what they were doing 6 years or so ago.

Just make sure he does the CORRECT ochre-labeled version!

Harry
 
Harry said:
Larry said:
With all this discussion of the reverbed & "boned" ochre label version of WNML I really have to have it on CD. I have contacted Stu at Worldwide Music Network to transfer the LP to CD and do the restoration. I can't wait to hear how it will sound. He says they have come along way in their restoration process compared to what they were doing 6 years or so ago.

Just make sure he does the CORRECT ochre-labeled version!

Harry

OK, Harry, I know it has the short version of PLUCKY on the one he's transferring. He listened to it as he was loading it into the computer and said heard those differences that we've been discussing.
So, tell me about the other ochre-labeled version.
 
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