"The Singles, 1969-1981" SACD Feedback

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Come to think of it, I haven't heard of anyone (yet) who's listened to the CD layer, other than Harry. All my audiophile buddies agree that they're not as fond of the remixes as the originals, but they're still impressed by the quality of the mix and the way KC's voice sounds.
 
The CD layer has great quality. I've done some comparisons and the quality rivals BY REQUEST and ESSENTIAL COLLECTION. However, I think Essential Collection sounds like it was EQd just a little too much compared to this CD.
 
I've heard the CD layer in my car and I really liked it. It sounded pristine and very clear. It really made me want to hurry home so I could pop in the SACD layer.

Ed
 
My SACD arrived yesterday afternoon. This morning, I went out and bought a universal DVD player so that I could listen to it. After getting the player hooked up, I only had enough time to listen to the first half of the surround layer, and I must say that I'm impressed. The sound quality is exceptional, and the surround mixes are really well done. Karen has never sounded better! I hope that RC releases some more albums in hi-res surround (so I'll have something else to play on my new toy).

Murray
 
Murray said:
Karen has never sounded better! I hope that RC releases some more albums in hi-res surround

Amen to that! I would *love* to hear A SONG FOR YOU remixed for surround sound. Given the complexity of the mixes on PASSAGE and MADE IN AMERICA, those albums could be really spectacular in surround...

Richard could create the definitive editions of all of the studio albums this way, with the original stereo mixes presented on the CD and 2-channel SACD layers, and a new surround mix on the 5.1 SACD layer.

David
 
Well, I have a sneaky suspicion that just in the way Richard went nuts with all of the "updating" where the mixes are concerned the last (20) years, depending on where surround goes in the future, there will probably be a lot more over then next several years that Richard will remix in 5.1, 6.1 etc.

He's already mentioned that he plans to spend the rest of his time "updating" the Carpenters existing material, making it sound better, etc...so I would just hang in there guys; I think we are in for all kinds of surprises over the next several years. -Chris
 
I have thought about it and I think I like the updated mixes better. Example: Superstar. I really love the 1985 remix, it's the best in my opinion. I do like the 2004 remix, but I like the the newer sounding ones the best.

But as you know, like many other Carpenters fans, my opinion changes over time.
 
Last night, I listened to the entire surround layer of the SACD. I was very impressed with the alternate lead on "I Believe You". Karen sings it more slowly, and her vocal sounds much more intimate than on the version we're used to hearing. I NEVER liked this song before, but the 'new' vocal gave me chills! The alternate lead on "It's Going To Take Some Time" is also a very pleasant bonus. "Calling Occupants" sounds the most incredible in surround of any of the tracks. It was an amazing experience, being enveloped in the sweetest sounds on earth for 77 minutes! :D

Then I was brought crashing back to reality. When the disc ended, my brand new Pioneer DV578-A didn't shut off. The disc continued spinning, and a LOUD whirring noise emanated from the player. I think the laser mechanism was stuck. I finally had to eject the disc and kill the power to make it stop. Today I took the player back to the store. Unfortunately, they didn't have another one to exchange it for, so I had to settle for a refund. Now I am playerless again! :cry: I asked the store owner if he will be getting any more, and he replied "probably not", as there is "no demand" for hi-res players and discs in this area. I was the first person who had even inquired about SACD players in the past 6 months, and that's why he sold it to me for such a good price - to get rid of the thing!

I don't know when (or even if) I'll get to listen to the SACD again, but at least I got to hear the Carpenters in surround ONCE! And how sweet it was!!

Murray
...upset at Pioneer's lack of quality control... :mad:
 
well even tho i'm a carpenters fan, i'm not familiar with a lot of remixing that richard has done since karen's death

but i do know i've never heard a better version of my fave carpenter's song, "only yesterday," than the original single mix. it always sounds so watered down on subsequent compilations. on the single it sounds so crisp and loud, and each change in the song is sort of shocking in it's surprise.
 
DTS is compressed digital audio, not even up to the data rate of CDs; SACD (which is DSD digital, not PCM digital) is the highest resolution uncompressed digital audio technology out there, followed closely by the PCM audio tracks on a DVD-Audio discs. If you can't hear the difference, don't bother upgrading. But for someone like me who prefers analog over digital, I'll take the higher resolution digital formats. :)
 
LOL! For a while, they were making DTS surround discs for a handful of albums and the ones I heard were pretty bad. I bought Boyz II Men's "II" album in that format and it was just putrid. I never wasted my money with those discs again. Yuck!

Ed
 
Finally got my copy of the SACD Singles. How ironic it came on todays date? Been listening to it tonight. Don't have the SACD player & that sucks but still a must have for this kid's collection.

I first noticed how sleek the design of the jewel case was, in fact I couldn't get the darn thing open at first, I see Press here & I'm pressing but it's not opening. lol Finally got it.

In my hands it almost feels like a step up in design, even the hinges are nicer & work without feeling like it's going to break. I wonder if it costs more to make these type cases?

The sound is really first class, like someone said here, it's as good as The Esstentials Collection CD's which is fantastic in my book.

Nice to see the Carpenters Official Website also displayed.
 
davidgra said:
Amen to that! I would *love* to hear A SONG FOR YOU remixed for surround sound.

Add another "Amen" to yours!! I'm with you all way!!! A SONG FOR YOU has always been a favorite of mine...I never tire of it. :wink:

Jon
 
raz42289 said:
You know how we have always thought that the line "So I've made my mind up I must live my life alone and..." in Goodbye to Love that was included on the QUAD Singles 1969-1973 was the alternate?

Well, I have heard Goodbye to Love (center channel) and it turns out that was the original and not the alternate. If you listen closely on the SACD to the center channel, you will notice that line has a different presence and no piano. This "alternate" has appeared on every version except the QUAD and the 1985,1990 remixes.

My guess is that Richard went back and had Karen re-record that line for the single because he was unhappy with it. What is interesting is that you can hear the original piano in the center channel, except for this "alternate" line. That and the different presence leads me to believe that this was recorded at a different time and added in. You can also hear the adding together of both "ands" like the "I think I'm gonna be sad" of Ticket to Ride from both versions that is found on the QUAD version.

Since this is really confusing to take in, here is a simple conclusion.

What we have always thought to be the alternate take, was actually the original take.

I have always thought that the orignial version had the first take. What do I know? hehe Didn't Harry discover something similar on the 1973 version of Top Of The World?

Now Playing: Ashlee Simpson - Shadow

...discovering new things while picking apart songs, online...

Well, I just got the SACD and was able to listen to the 5.1 layer. OMG I love it. Anyway, I noticed something else that I can't believe ya'll didn't noticed. The line "FROM THIS DAY LOVE IS FORGOTTEN I'LL GO ON AS BEST I CAN" is an alternate. It just jumped out of me. lol Also, the fuzz guitar fade out is longer, similar to the original version. I never understood why Rich started fading it out so soon on the remixes.

I didn't realize that the remixed for surround for atmoshere, not to change it. I have noticed lots of differences. I'm gonna be listening the whole night over and over and over...
 
Oh and Harry, you will be happy to know that the organ riff in the guitar fade out on Goodbye to Love can be heard on the surround layer. It is so cool to hear!

...rambling, online...
 
Well, I FINALLY broke down and bought an SACD system and started listening to the 5.1 mixes. Unfortunately, I have only listened to a few as I was not feeling great last night and could not get a real feel for what I was listening to, so I decided to wait until my ears weren’t so dull to get the “full effect”! :)

I did note a few obvious things however, like the work leads on “I Believe You” and “It’s Going to Take Some Time”. There’s also the phrase from “Goodbye to Love” that Andrew mentions, which is an alternate (“…from this day love is forgotten…”). I think it’s interesting how you can hear the vocals that Karen sings on the master lead tracks that are usually more “backing vocal” oriented, however Karen sings right through them as they can be heard on the 5.1 in the center channel and not at all obvious on all previous 2-channel mixes.

There were also a lot of other nuances I heard in the few tracks I’ve listened to, certain percussive instruments, etc. which are mixed with incredible separation. Once I get a FULL run-through or two to this thing with good ears, I’ll post more!!! -Chris
 
Chris, have you noticed that there isn't anything in the subwoofer channel on Ticket To Ride? That surprises me because I would have thought the low strings would have been perfect for this.
 
raz42289 said:
Chris, have you noticed that there isn't anything in the subwoofer channel on Ticket To Ride? That surprises me because I would have thought the low strings would have been perfect for this.


Yeah...What is really cool though is that the cello is mixed in the center channel. If you isolate it, all of it's little changes and nuances have a very "live" presence. I haven't really posted my overall findings as of yet because I wanted to give people a chance to listen to it all on their own. I didn't want to give away any surprises, but perhaps a little later on tonight or tomorrow I'll go through song-by-song and list what I hear. -Chris
 
Murray said:
Last night, I listened to the entire surround layer of the SACD. I was very impressed with the alternate lead on "I Believe You". Karen sings it more slowly, and her vocal sounds much more intimate than on the version we're used to hearing. I NEVER liked this song before, but the 'new' vocal gave me chills! The alternate lead on "It's Going To Take Some Time" is also a very pleasant bonus. "Calling Occupants" sounds the most incredible in surround of any of the tracks. It was an amazing experience, being enveloped in the sweetest sounds on earth for 77 minutes! :D

Then I was brought crashing back to reality. When the disc ended, my brand new Pioneer DV578-A didn't shut off. The disc continued spinning, and a LOUD whirring noise emanated from the player. I think the laser mechanism was stuck. I finally had to eject the disc and kill the power to make it stop. Today I took the player back to the store. Unfortunately, they didn't have another one to exchange it for, so I had to settle for a refund. Now I am playerless again! :cry: I asked the store owner if he will be getting any more, and he replied "probably not", as there is "no demand" for hi-res players and discs in this area. I was the first person who had even inquired about SACD players in the past 6 months, and that's why he sold it to me for such a good price - to get rid of the thing!

I don't know when (or even if) I'll get to listen to the SACD again, but at least I got to hear the Carpenters in surround ONCE! And how sweet it was!!

Murray
...upset at Pioneer's lack of quality control... :mad:

I have a Pioneer All disc player as well and I've never had an issue with mine. Nothing's perfect and you probably got the one bad one in a few thousand. Where did you buy it that they told you that there was "no demand" for them? I got mine at Myer-Emco and they had a few I could choose from.

Ed
 
OK, here are my findings with the SACD 5.1 mixes. I find that there are (2) distinct categories here.

CATEGORY I: These songs are remixed, and have what I would consider DRAMATIC differences (i.e. alternate vocal take(s), certain instrumentation turned up considerably enough to change the audible interpretation of the performance, etc).

CATEGORY II: These are the tunes which don't really have anything "new" so-to-speak, they are just remixed with great separation so you can in a sense get a better listen at what you've really been hearing all along. Here goes (in order):


1. "YESTERDAY ONCE MORE": CATEGORY II-- A great remix with great separation. You can hear the orchestra bell much louder at 1:27, 1:36 and 3:05.

2. "WE'VE ONLY JUST BEGUN": CATEGORY II-- Another great remix with great separation. Wurlitzer electric piano is back up in the mix (much like original from '70), positioned more dominantly in the rear left.

3. "SUPERSTAR": CATEGORY I-- The best way to describe this remix is 80% original mix, 20% additional recording (instrumentation from '73/'85). To sum it up, for the most part you are listening to the original with incredible separation!

4. "RAINY DAYS AND MONDAYS": CATEGORY II-- A great remix. The strings have still somehow "disappeared" during the sax solo whereas they are heard there on all of the earlier mixes.

5. "GOODBYE TO LOVE": CATEGORY I-- Most of this is the instrumentation from '85, with an alternate vocal take at 1:16 ("...from this day love is forgotten..."). Certainly a notable difference.

6. "I BELIEVE YOU": CATEGORY I-- This one has some of the most dramatic differences, mainly in the lead vocals. *Some* of the phrases sound like the takes we have been listening to all these years, but most of them sound to me like the "work leads", or at least an alternate take. The lyrics are sung differently at 0:45, instead of "...when you say that everytime that we make love...", Karen sings "...when you tell me everytime that we make love...". You also hear certain "oohs" throughout the song that are brought up in the mix on the lead vocal track that were otherwise buried in the original mix. Instrumentally, the bongos are much more "present" and positioned more dominantly rear left. The French horns are have better separation and all of the string swells are also much more present, primarily in the left as well. I also noticed a substantial amount of reverb on the drums, at least where the "fills" are concerned.

7. "IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME": CATEGORY I-- This one sounds like a work-lead all the way throughout. The 'Karen' we are hearing here in some respects almost sounds like the Karen we first heard during the "OFFERING"/"TICKET" days. The instrumentation is the more "updated" sound we've been hearing in recent years, with the DX-7 type keyboard, as opposed to the original acoustic piano mixed opposite the Wurlitzer electric. Again, some great separation going on here.

8. "THIS MASQUERADE": CATEGORY II-- Not any major differences here other than the separation. Also, if you isolate the center channel on this one, you get an earful of backing vocal harmonies, raw and dry although *perfect* by anyone's standards. As with every other tune here, you also hear the electric bass, drums and Karen's lead only (center channel).

9. "TICKET TO RIDE": CATEGORY II-- Again, no major differences, although the cymbal swell at 0:13 is heard in wonderful "surround". When
isolating again the center channel at 0:16, you hear the cello very dry and distinctly. It's a very nice remix.

10. "TOP OF THE WORLD": CATEGORY I-- The two major differences here are the kick drum, which has been EQ'ed like the original mixe(s), unlike the remix from 1991. Also, the slide guitar throughout is more distinct. Karen's lead is very clear and present.

11. "ONLY YESTERDAY": CATEGORY I-- I would have to label this one as a CATEGORY I, as there are no differences vocally, however the harmonies are better separated, hearing a majority of the backing vocals in the rear surround domain. I have to say that the instrumentation has some notable separation. The Wurlitzer electric piano fill at 1:57 is more distinct, and the Rhodes electric piano throughout is mixed louder, especially from 2:29 through 2:39. Certain changes are played that are not audible on the original mix. Also, when isolating the center channel, Richard's backing vocal doubles can be heard by themselves.


Be back with more tomorrow! -Chris
 
ThaFunkyFakeTation said:
I have a Pioneer All disc player as well and I've never had an issue with mine. Nothing's perfect and you probably got the one bad one in a few thousand. Where did you buy it that they told you that there was "no demand" for them? I got mine at Myer-Emco and they had a few I could choose from.

Ed

I bought it at a small independent electronics store that's been in business for over 50 years. According to the owner, they stocked a few DVD-A and SACD players, but very few people have inquired about them. Not surprising, since the vast majority of people don't know that these formats exist. Of the few that did inquire, most decided not to buy one when they learned how small the selection of titles is, and how expensive the discs are (most DVD-As and SACDs are foreign imports and cost at least twice what a standard CD costs).

I understand that DVD-A and SACD have an extremely small portion of the overall audio market. Most of that small market would be expected to be concentrated in large cities, where there are more affluent audiophiles living. In the small prairie city where I live (with a very depressed economy), I'm not surprised that hi-res audio hasn't taken off at all.
 
Here is PART II of my SACD findings:


12. "HURTING EACH OTHER": CATEGORY II-- Again, a great remix/separation. The most notable change in the mix is the level at which the timpani drum is mixed at the final chorus to fade out. It is very audible in the rears, and gives the listener a great "orchestral surround" effect! Additional instrumentation from 1990 throughout.

13. "PLEASE MR. POSTMAN": CATEGORY II-- The most notable changes with the mix are: Backing vocals are much more separated. The piano is brought up and the track "bed" with respect to the sax, catanets are much more defined.

14. "MERRY CHRISTMAS, DARLING": CATEGORY II-- This is in my opinion one of the *best* remixes, mainly because the "high-end" has been brought up in the EQ with respect to the drums (mixed center). The song seems to have lost some of its "dated" effect (although timeless). Fantastic fidelity and incredible separation once again. Backing vocal parts are also much more distinguishable. This one employs all of the original instrumentation, and Karen's lead from '78.

15. "SING": CATEGORY II-- The center channel again isolates all of the Carpenters backing vocal harmonies, very tight, dry and clean (along with Karen's lead/bass/drums of course). The children's choir tracks are a bit more reverbrated than in previous mixes, at least audibly speaking. Additional instrumentation from '94 throughout.

16. "BLESS THE BEASTS AND THE CHILDREN": CATEGORY I-- Although this one has the "stereo" piano recorded in '85, the overall mix tends to sound a little more like the original. The Wurlitzer electric piano is brought up a bit, and the backing vocals at 1:48 (second chorus) are mixed very hot in the mix, unlike all previous recordings, where a subtle "blend" was heard, allowing the listener to hear nuances that we never knew were there. A great surround mix!

17. "I WON'T LAST A DAY WITHOUT YOU": CATEGORY II-- Piano seems to be mixed more in the rears, Karen's voice is somewhat reverbrated. Again, wonderful separation all around. No major changes otherwise. Electric guitar figures are of course there in the mix as with all previous mixes (except the album mix).

18. "TOUCH ME WHEN WE'RE DANCING": CATEGORY II-- This is a fantastic mix, and the separation is so good it almost tempts me to want to classify it as a CATEGORY I! The center channel once again is a treat to listen to all alone, as the backing vocals are mixed very hot and dry, allowing the listener to hear once again incredible "blend and intonation" typical of the Carpenters' "sound" otherwise buried a bit in the original mix. Guitars, French horn and strings are mixed opposite eachother giving once again the "orchestral surround" effect.

19. "FOR ALL WE KNOW": CATEGORY II-- No major changes, again another great remix. The oboes in the intro are mixed opposite, first oboe in rear left, harmony in front. Drums are also brighter. French horns seem to have a stereo effect. Very nice!

20. "(THEY LONG TO BE) CLOSE TO YOU": CATEGORY I-- Piano is somewhat reverbrated for the first time, with some delay. Also, a very notable change is heard at about 0:33. The harpsichord is mixed in throughout the second verse which is not heard on any other mix. A very "fresh" change. Backing vocals have incredible separation.

21. "CALLING OCCUPANTS OF INTERPLANETARY CRAFT": CATEGORY I-- This one deserves an isolated listen, one speaker at a time! A fantastic remix. The Rhodes "tremolo" feature is panning back and forth in the rears and gives a very psychodelic effect. The drums are mixed very wide and separated, vibra-slap at 3:22 comes in at left rear, and repeats at 3:25 opposite left rear (right rear of course). Organ is mixed more fully (3:22 through 3:41), giving a very "Sci-fi" effect. Horns (at 3:50 through 4:03) are mixed in right rear, opposite hand-claps. Artificial vocal double effect again heard at 4:31, as with all previous remixes. Cymbal swells, chimes, flutes, horns etc. are mixed with again fantastic separation. Fuzz guitar solo dry and center. At 5:34, one should listen once again to the center channel only, as Richard begins in double-voice "aaah", Karen comes in to follow, and the third set of "aaahs", Karen is hear singing in her "head voice" quite powerfully, as this is normally blended in in previous recordings. This is probably the greatest remix orchestrally/musically on the whole SACD! I guess Rich saved the best for last!

-Chris
 
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