Track where vinyl tends to skip the most

[dostros]

I have about 1000 vinyl records, in varying conditions. I collect according to my interests and don't need them to be in perfect condition - just not too scratchy, and basically listenable.

I know some of you in the A&M Corner group have a lot of technical knowledge about records and recording, and I was wondering if you had the answer to a question I've had since I was a teenager 40 years ago.

Why does the first on side 2 of a vinyl record have a tendancy to have a skip or a "stick" on it? I don't have any concrete examples off-hand, but I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that. Back when I bought new vinyl all the time, I noticed it even with the new vinyl. If there was a defect, it would usually be on the first track of side 2.

Thanks for any ideas you can give me on the subject.

 

[Harry]

I can guess at an answer.

Records are probably more often placed on turntables to play Side 1. Side 1 was generally where the big hit was, so it stands to reason that on average, Side 1 of any given album gets more playing time than Side 2. You can add to the hit factor, laziness and fatigue. Many people might play Side 1 of an album, decide they don't want to hear Side 2 either from boredom or laziness, and never flip it over. Thus, it's arguable that Side 1's of the world get more action.

The size of the average turntable platter is generally less than the size of a 12" record, and it appears to me that the first track of Side 2 is going to hit the edge of some platters. (So does track 1 on Side 1, but as has already been pointed out, Side 1 gets more actual playing time for the reasons outlined above.)

Thus, on average, if you pick up a album, the odds are that there could be some damage to Side 2, Track 1.

As to why you feel it happens with new vinyl, I couldn't begin to attempt to explain that.

Harry

 

[dostros]

My new records back then were probably from huge runs, and maybe from cheap pressings. I remember one was After the Goldrush - track 2 side 1 being Oh Lonesome Me, but there were quite a few others.

 

[Mr Bill]

Also, consider that although the entire record is spinning at 33.3 RPM the further out you are (i.e.: cut 1 vice cut 6 closer to the inside) the faster the vinyl is moving. Think of the planets in our solar system. Mercury (closet to the sun) takes 88 days to make one trip around the sun while lowly Pluto (in the process of getting its plenthood reinstated) takes a whopping 248 years. Now imagine if all planet were fixed to a disc so they all took 88 days to go around the sun (as opposed to 1/33rd of s minute togo around a spindle) and you can see Pluto would most assuredly be hauling a**. So at the higher speed closer to the edge of your album a defect will do more to the object (in this case a stylus) hitting it. Think of a speed bump that if fine at 10 MPH but can do some damage at 50 MPH.

For me I've had a bigger issue with songs closer to the label (i.e.: cut 6) as the tone arms of my turntables (when I had working ones) seems to meet some sort of resistence in getting to the inner run-off groove...

 

[dostros]

Those are innarresting theories, thanks. The things you don't think of! Turntables are such engineering marvels - a bit of a mystery to me. A bit like 12-speed bicycles. I love them but I haven't yet learned how to maintain them properly myself.

 

[Rudy]

I've never had a side 2/track 1 song skip or stick...ever. Sounds more like an equipment problem to me. Even my cheaper, older turntables never had that problem.

The only records I've seen that on were ones my parents owned, and some of my "kiddie" records, some of which rarely saw their sleeves. And on those, any track was likely to skip or stick.

What Mr. Bill says about the inner grooves is true--since the sound is more tightly packed, there is a ton of distortion there. You really need a good stylus to track those, something along the lines of a Van den Hul, Shibata, Micro-Ridge, Micro-Line, line contact, etc., all being variations on a diamond cut that has a very narrow cross-section that can play those grooves without distorting or worse, skipping (like my Herb/Hugh album did on the last track on side 1, due to it being bass-heavy).

Harry and another forum member both upgraded to Ortofon cartridges with a "line contact" type of stylus--they can both vouch for how much better everything sounds. Me personally? I'll never let my vinyl hit anything other than that type. I have too many records that got shredded by an elliptical stylus that just couldn't track the vinyl (a lot of them 12" singles that are cut on the hot side). I grit my teeth when I hear of someone using a spherical/conical stylus on a 45 RPM single, especially styrene--those are like a blunderbuss and can't track those tight grooves without ripping up the records. And I have old stacks of my own damaged 45s to show for it. Anything "collectible" gets played with the good cartridge, just like my expensive audiophile stuff and $1-bin finds (after they are cleaned, of course).

It's true a good vinyl rig can get expensive, but I figure if you're going to get into it and really enjoy it, best to spend the extra money and do it right. I have a feeling this recent fascination with vinyl is all a fad; all the cheap turntables are hitting the market again, and they all sound horrible and ruin the records. Figure on $500 or more to even get something decent to start with, IMHO...or at least start with a good used turntable from decades ago that still has some quality engineering in it.

And no...a stack of quarters on the tonearm is not the proper fix for anything.

 

[GroovinGarrett]

I have to disagree with ya about the conical stylus on styrene. I keep a Shure M44-7 with a conical tip mounted on a spare headshell specifically for needledropping mono styrene pressings, especially Columbia pressings. An elliptical tip works too, but I damaged a couple of 45's using a line contact on them. YMMV of course.

 

[Rudy]

I have to disagree with ya about the conical stylus on styrene. I keep a Shure M44-7 with a conical tip mounted on a spare headshell specifically for needledropping mono styrene pressings, especially Columbia pressings. An elliptical tip works too, but I damaged a couple of 45's using a line contact on them. YMMV of course.

Wow, I have two of that same cart...never had luck with it. My V15VMR plays through styrene like butter. It may depend on what type of "line contact" tip is used, but I couldn't believe how much distortion was removed when I first got the V15. It was like I'd gotten a whole new 45 collection.

They are fussy about alignment though--you have to be dead accurate mounting one, as that same narrow tip will work against you. The telltale sign is that little curl of vinyl coming off the stylus as you play a rekkid...