Vinyl Outsells CDs For The First Time In 35 Years!

[tomswift2002]

Sorry but FLAC and ALAC don’t preserve the original sound. Whenever I hear anything in those files or even MQA there’s an extreme harshness I can pick up and deadness when compared to uncompressed wav. And MP3, WMA & AAC are just flat and as I said sound like Type 1 audio cassette with Dolby B, no matter the bitrate.

 

[rockdoctor]

I have not been buying any of new issue lp's as the prices are outrageous as far as I am concerned.
I still look for old lp's in good condition and still buy cd's when I come across one that I have been looking for.

 

[tomswift2002]

So I just got in the mail this morning the 2012 CD-R "Digitally Remastered" of The Archies 1971 album This Is Love. It still had the edited version of the title track, and some of the tracks still had a muffled sound to them---that may've come from the vinyl that was used being a few analog generations away from the original analog masters, and how the vinyl was mastered in the 70's, with a little digital noise removal.

However one huge difference between the CD-R and the iTunes files is the dynamic range. The iTunes files sounded so bassy and muffled, and when I played them through my Apple TV to my TV (via HDMI) then to my surround system (via coax from the TV---my receiver doesn't have HDMI) I also couldn't pick up the vinyl noise that's still present on the audio tracks (even though I could on the built-in speakers on my iPhone). With the CD I'm listening to it on a PS3 connected by optical Toslink to my receiver. And the dynamic range is a lot wider on the CD and I can hear the vinyl noise on my surround system.

 

[Rudy]

Sorry but FLAC and ALAC don’t preserve the original sound.

They do, though. FLAC is like a ZIP file--no data lost. Any difference is due to hardware being stressed by decoding a FLAC file. Push a FLAC or WAV through a dedicated streamer and a higher quality DAC and you won't hear any difference between the two. Listen over mid-fi mass market equipment and everything sounds "off." WAV, digital output from a CD player, and FLAC will all have their differences in that case.

If you get a chance, attend an audio show. It's ear opening to hear what digital is capable of on good equipment. Many high-end manufacturers use Qobuz (which delivers hi-res via FLAC) to demostrate systems that cost well into the six figures. If it was so "flawed," they would not use it.

Short version--it's the hardware, not the format. Unfortunately it can cost a bit to get hardware that can really do digital music justice.

 

[tomswift2002]

They do, though. FLAC is like a ZIP file--no data lost. Any difference is due to hardware being stressed by decoding a FLAC file. Push a FLAC or WAV through a dedicated streamer and a higher quality DAC and you won't hear any difference between the two. Listen over mid-fi mass market equipment and everything sounds "off." WAV, digital output from a CD player, and FLAC will all have their differences in that case.

If you get a chance, attend an audio show. It's ear opening to hear what digital is capable of on good equipment. Many high-end manufacturers use Qobuz (which delivers hi-res via FLAC) to demostrate systems that cost well into the six figures. If it was so "flawed," they would not use it.

Short version--it's the hardware, not the format. Unfortunately it can cost a bit to get hardware that can really do digital music justice.

Sorry I’d disagree. I’ve heard FLAC over high-end DAC’s, both through speakers and wired headphones, and it doesn’t sound anywhere near an uncompressed WAV.

 

[tomswift2002]

They do, though. FLAC is like a ZIP file--no data lost. Any difference is due to hardware being stressed by decoding a FLAC file. Push a FLAC or WAV through a dedicated streamer and a higher quality DAC and you won't hear any difference between the two. Listen over mid-fi mass market equipment and everything sounds "off." WAV, digital output from a CD player, and FLAC will all have their differences in that case.

If you get a chance, attend an audio show. It's ear opening to hear what digital is capable of on good equipment. Many high-end manufacturers use Qobuz (which delivers hi-res via FLAC) to demostrate systems that cost well into the six figures. If it was so "flawed," they would not use it.

Short version--it's the hardware, not the format. Unfortunately it can cost a bit to get hardware that can really do digital music justice.

You might want to check this out from PSAudio. I’m not the only one that notices a hit in quality on FLAC’s or other “lossless” files from streaming services like Qubuz.. Yeah, the file you get may be CD quality or higher—-but is it? As he points out, a lot of noise is added to the file from the transmission from the server to your computer and some components can filter some out.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Looking at Amazon on their "Prime Day", they are moving thousands of turntables compared to few CD players in comparison. Additionally, the top ten music sales are vinyl heavy with number one being a Taylor Swift 3 LP set.
Vinyl is back with a vengeance!

 

[tomswift2002]

Looking at Amazon on their "Prime Day", they are moving thousands of turntables compared to few CD players in comparison. Additionally, the top ten music sales are vinyl heavy with number one being a Taylor Swift 3 LP set.
Vinyl is back with a vengeance!

I think nowadays, unless someone is buying a boombox, very few people are buying stand-alone CD players, since, with the exception of the PS5 & PS4, every DVD/Blu-Ray/4K Blu-Ray player (including the Xbox consoles with a disc drive) can play CD’s. And for most people, they are bypassing the onboard DAC’s and are digitally sending the CD’s PCM audio to their own DAC. There are some out there that think that only a truly dedicated CD player will make CD’s sound the best—-however if you are sending the digital audio over TOSLINK or Coax or HDMI to your receiver’s DAC, then there’s no way to judge if the standalone CD player is better than your Blu-Ray player. Now if you were sending it by analog, different story since then you’d be using the players onboard DAC.

So to say fewer people are buying CD players vs turntables indicates people are getting away from CD’s is irresponsible, since most people prefer to have a device that can multi-task, so with CD’s really you need to look at the physical disc sales not the hardware. A lot of people will say “I’ll spend $200 on a 4K Blu-Ray player that allows me to play CDs, DVDs, Blu-Ray and 4K before spending $300 on a player that only plays CDs”.

 

[Rudy]

They also aren't selling CD players because manufacturers produce and market so few of them these days. Component CD players have become a niche market item--they are out there (and despite costing a little more, they can sound quite good), but there are only certain buyers who can use one--those with component systems. And it goes back to what @tomswift2002 says--not only music buyers, but even the manufacturers of mass-market hardware know that their BluRay player can play just about all disc formats, so why should they retool to make only a "barebones" CD player?

Go back to the period from the mid 80s to maybe 2000 or so--they were very common. Each large manufacturer (Sony, Pioneer, etc.) had a line of single-CD players and even CD changers; Sony once made a jukebox-style CD changer that held 400 discs.

The portable market has also changed drastically. Most buyers want portable Bluetooth speakers for listening to music without earbuds or headphones. Even boomboxes today are more likely to be Bluetooth speakers (and I'm really digging the JBL Boombox 3--I don't own one, but have heard it and it is surprisingly a very good full-range speaker). Their sources are phones. And I can't blame them. Who wants to carry CDs or cassettes around with a portable player anymore, when you can use your streaming subscription to download offline copies of the music and take it with you?

I still don't buy the premise that it's a surge in vinyl sales--it's a sharp drop in CD sales. Vinyl has had a gradual rebound over the past 15 or so years. And aside from youngsters who are getting into it (because they want something tangible), many who grew up with records but got rid of their turntables are probably looking to relive that experience. Maybe they came across a few old boxes of their records at their parents' houses. Maybe they picked some up at a garage sale.

Amazon's turntable selection is also very mass-market--most of what is listed there is nothing I'd play a valuable record on, to be honest. Especially not those plasticky piles of trash you find at the big box stores by Crosley and others. For not much more, you can get a decent turntable at a fair price. I posted an article a month or so ago about an ELAC Miracord at a great price. Something like that is well built, will last a long time, is upgradable, and doesn't cost a lot. Even Audio Technica has a couple of models higher in their lineup that don't cost much.

I should write up a couple of articles when I'm back in town in August--one with a handful of affordable new CD players (with perhaps a few honorable mentions that are easily found used), and another for turntables.

 

[Rudy]

As he points out, a lot of noise is added to the file from the transmission from the server to your computer and some components can filter some out.

That's the thing--my system already has a DDC which takes the "dirty" USB signal, cleans out the noise from the network, reclocks it (with a femto clock) and sends it via I2S to a PS Audio DirectStream DAC. Their upcoming AirLens has that galvanic isolation and reclocking built in, as does the successor to my DAC, the DirectStream 2. (Ted Smith, the designer, determined that was one of the reasons files could sound different from optical discs.) Either way, with the setup I have, a FLAC is indistinguishable from a CD, just as a DSD file sounds the same as the SACD it was ripped from. Use mass market equipment and yeah, things are gonna sound off kilter no matter what a person throws at it...and who's to say one (disc) is better than the other (file) since both sound different? On the other hand, to my ears, it costs way too much to make any digital not sound unbearable (even buying things deeply discounted/used as I typically do).

Coincidentally, I was just in Boulder this past May (partly for an updated tour, also for a quick meeting post-AXPONA). If you're ever out that way, let them know and they can schedule you for a tour, including a visit to one of the listening rooms. FWIW, they use Qobuz for all of their demos, so it obviously can't be all that horrible if they use it to demo the Aspen FR30 speakers, BHK amp and preamp, their PerfectWave power generators, and the DS2 DAC and AirLens. Hearing that combination in a properly set up room is an experience. They do have a CD/SACD transport and a turntable on hand, incidentally.

Say hello to Nipper if you visit.

 

[tomswift2002]

That's the thing--my system already has a DDC which takes the "dirty" USB signal, cleans out the noise from the network, reclocks it (with a femto clock) and sends it via I2S to a PS Audio DirectStream DAC. Their upcoming AirLens has that galvanic isolation and reclocking built in, as does the successor to my DAC, the DirectStream 2. (Ted Smith, the designer, determined that was one of the reasons files could sound different from optical discs.) Either way, with the setup I have, a FLAC is indistinguishable from a CD, just as a DSD file sounds the same as the SACD it was ripped from. Use mass market equipment and yeah, things are gonna sound off kilter no matter what a person throws at it...and who's to say one (disc) is better than the other (file) since both sound different? On the other hand, to my ears, it costs way too much to make any digital not sound unbearable (even buying things deeply discounted/used as I typically do).

Coincidentally, I was just in Boulder this past May (partly for an updated tour, also for a quick meeting post-AXPONA). If you're ever out that way, let them know and they can schedule you for a tour, including a visit to one of the listening rooms. FWIW, they use Qobuz for all of their demos, so it obviously can't be all that horrible if they use it to demo the Aspen FR30 speakers, BHK amp and preamp, their PerfectWave power generators, and the DS2 DAC and AirLens. Hearing that combination in a properly set up room is an experience. They do have a CD/SACD transport and a turntable on hand, incidentally.

Say hello to Nipper if you visit.

I was just listening to one of his recent videos and he was mentioning that they still use CD’s for demonstration not Quobuz, since someone had asked what they use for demonstration.

 

[Rudy]

I was just listening to one of his recent videos and he was mentioning that they still use CD’s for demonstration not Quobuz, since someone had asked what they use for demonstration.

Which is interesting since we were using a tablet (controlling an Innuos system) and picking among Qobuz tracks to play in the demo room. Which kind of makes sense as they're not going to have much of the music someone wants to hear (like the Living Stereo recording from 1960 that I chose...which sounds absolutely amazing). Their "software" on hand (CD, SACD, vinyl) is chosen more for in-house use while they are developing products. So they want music with certain characteristics which they are familiar with to work on their designs.

I did see a prototype in the sales/support room (which also houses their "product museum," with one each of every component they've ever made) of a third speaker in the Aspen line, smaller than the current two, as Chris was still tuning and working on voicing them. He also had a CAD drawing on his computer of an upcoming bookshelf speaker they'll probably release within the next year or so if it's feasible. (Supply chain issues are still a problem.)

Interesting place! Aside from speaker production (which is in a different location), all the design, prototype, assembly, testing, repair, sales and support, warehousing, and shipping, are all done at their location in Boulder. When I visited in 2018, they had just moved in from across the street, and the listening rooms were only steel 2x4s framing in the spaces at that point. 2023, they're getting close to outgrowing their space again.

Paul also has Octave Studios, where they record and mix in pure DSD, so a lot of the demo music on hand is from recordings they have made and released on their own Octave Records label and released as DSD downloads, hybrid SACDs, and some on vinyl.