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🥂 50th WARM - Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass (SP-4190)

What is your favorite track on WARM?

  • The Sea Is My Soil

    Votes: 15 46.9%
  • Without Her

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Marjorine

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Girk Talk

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Zazueira

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • The Continental

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pretty World

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Warm

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • To Wait For Love

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Sandbox

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32

Harry

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I spent $41 to have a "near mint" copy sent to me by a record search service.

With a stroke of luck, I just received a still-sealed promotional Monarch pressing of WARM. The shrink wrap looked authentically aged, so I'm pretty sure it's not a re-seal, and the disc itself looks pristine with no signs of spindle marks at all.

In fact, this pressing wasn't listed on Discogs, so I've just uploaded some pictures and details:


I've not yet had a chance to get it on the turntable, but will in the coming day(s), when I get a chance. The main reason of course for getting this vinyl as close to perfect is due to the supremely disappointing sound of "The Sea Is My Soil" in all digital forms. Starting with the Shout files reissue, and continuing through the HAP CD release and even the HERB ALPERT IS... version, the track suffers from what I'll call "mangled-tape syndrome." Original vinyl does not have that of course, so even though I have a very clean LP, this one might be just that notch better. We'll see.
 

Harry

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I'm hearing a bit of surface noise on the above promo album, only really noticeable on the very quiet opening. Later on, I'll attempt some cleaning to see if that helps, otherwise, this is a nice early pressing.

Heh, fifty odd years in, has anyone ever noticed that on the rear cover of WARM, Herb mentions thanks to "RIO DE JANIERO", misspelling the city's name. That misspelling carries through to the HAP CD too.Janiero.jpg
 
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martin

Well-Known Member
To me Warm is the best summer music I can think of. I've played it a lot this summer, which has been really warm and lovely here up north.

- Greetings from the north -
Martin
 

alpertfan

Well-Known Member
I chose "The Sea Is My Soil". I like the structure-the slow intro with the guitar in the background, then it quickens up, and then back to the intro (I'm somewhat ignorant of time signatures, as I am not musically-inclined). You actually can visualize a beach setting. I agree that the album, as a whole, is very different than anything that came before it. I wonder if Brazilian musicians were used to help make the record, or if they were just instructed to play that way.
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I chose "The Sea Is My Soil". I like the structure-the slow intro with the guitar in the background, then it quickens up, and then back to the intro (I'm somewhat ignorant of time signatures, as I am not musically-inclined). You actually can visualize a beach setting. I agree that the album, as a whole, is very different than anything that came before it. I wonder if Brazilian musicians were used to help make the record, or if they were just instructed to play that way.
Herb's a master of arrangement---this was deliberate, either from him or Shorty Rogers. I always visualized the tempo changes in "The Sea Is My Soil" as starting out with a very serene sea, then in comes a really big wave. And then it settles back down again.
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
I'm hearing a bit of surface noise on the above promo album, only really noticeable on the very quiet opening. Later on, I'll attempt some cleaning to see if that helps, otherwise, this is a nice early pressing.

Heh, fifty odd years in, has anyone ever noticed that on the rear cover of WARM, Herb mentions thanks to "RIO DE JANIERO", misspelling the city's name. That misspelling carries through to the HAP CD too.View attachment 6837
From the same folks who brought us Herb Albert & The Tijuana Brass Greatest Hits...
 

Moritat

Well-Known Member
The tune "Marjorine" is easily the standout for me. A complex and clever tune (written by the great Sol Lake), it goes back & forth between major & minor keys. Add the great arrangement and you have a mini masterpiece.
 

JOv2

Well-Known Member
I went with Baja Nova. Herb's arrangement is stellar.

His unique feature for trumpet and ride cymbal cone is very likable. The scoring [piano, vibes, and flugelhorns] works well in support of lead trumpet. The song structure is actually a bit complicated: D ABCD ABEFD AB. The arrangement at the main break [EF] is some of the most powerful and thoughtful TjB scoring since the S.R.O. / Sounds Like... days – dig how the melody is handed off from instrument-to-instrument – including voice. That ending flourish from Herb is the perfect foil to an otherwise reserve performance. Pure sonic bliss and right up there with The Sea is My Soil, which only doesn't win out because: (1) I actually prefer the earlier Astrud Gilberto version (with children voices and percussion) of what's essentially the same arrangement and (2) the strings on Herb's version are just a bit over-the-top for me.
 

Mike Blakesley

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Staff member
Moderator
I'm a little surprised at no votes for "Sandbox," which a lot of people here at the Corner have raved about in the past.

I have a lot of well-liked songs from this album. "The Sea Is My Soil" is my fave, but "Marjorine" is really close for me -- that tune really swings.

Really the only song on the album I don't like all that much is "To Wait For Love" but even that one is "okay." Of the instrumentals my least favorite would probably be "Pretty World" - it's just a little slow for my tastes.
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Well, heck---I'll rank mine:

1. The Sea Is My Soil
2. Zazueira
3. Sandbox
4. Girl Talk
5. Pretty World
6. The Continental
7. Without Her
8. Marjorine
9. Warm
10. Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da
11. To Wait For Love
 

Harry

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WARM's disappointing performance on the charts is something I never heard about until years later. At the time, to me, WARM was a great new Tijuana Brass album, but it sounded a little more grown-up than some of the earlier albums. The soaring strings were certainly not a part of the seven guys on the earlier covers, so it seemed that Herb was altering the sound with bigger orchestrations - and there's the name, right on the cover, Shorty Rogers, whoever that is. At the time I'd never encountered that name, but I liked what I was hearing. The opening track "The Sea Is My Soil" was just gorgeous. Serene and calm one minute and furiously wonderful the next.

"Without Her" I'd heard as the single that arrived on the radio with the album. It too had these almost too-quiet moments alternating with loud orchestral bursts. It gave the home system a workout to try to listen to comfortably. Herb was a vocalist now, after his big hit, so we were going to be subjected to attempted repeat performances it seemed.

"Marjorine" starts with a clarinet - not an instrument that the core seven guys ever played. But when the track gets going, it had the old Tijuana Brass sound for the first verse, then here comes that big orchestra again in a Dixieland setting to the bouncy groove of the track. It's hard not to love this track.

"Girl Talk" - more trumpets here than on any other TjB record it seems as with Shorty Rogers treatment, there's a veritable brass curtain. It's gorgeous. Another winner on this "new" album.

"Ob-la-di, "Ob-la-da" - this one gets a lot of grief from Beatles fans who find it annoying, not rock enough, too silly in the lyrics. But Herb heard how well it would work for the TjB - and he was right. It's a bouncy, up-tempo song that is aided by some sparse backing vocals, hand claps, and Shorty's orchestration touches to close out side one of the album.

"Zazueira" had been a single and starts off side two. It seemed like many months ago that we'd first heard it, but it was great to hear in stereo after the somewhat closed-in mono 45. A very different track for the Tijuana Brass with its Brazilian roots and backing vocals, but boy does it have an appealing groove. I'll take Herb and Shorty's arrangement over any other artist I've heard do the song.

"The Continental" brings a steel drum sound to the TjB on this short, classic and lively song.

"Pretty World" - I found this one just amazing. We'd heard Sergio's take on this song and I always thought it would make a great TjB song. The Herb does what Herb does and turns the song on its ear, giving it a slow and soulful read. The chord progressions are surprising and delightful, and Shorty's high strings sound like they'd be at home on a current day Sergio Mendes record. It's almost like Herb and Sergio traded arrangements of the song.

"Warm" took me a long time to warm up to - pun intended. It wasn't an instant favorite, but I've come to love the track the more I've heard it over the years. I think it might have been that vocal with Karen Philipp that pushed me over the edge.

"To Wait For Love" - the oldest of the pre-album singles, this one immediately followed Herb's success with "This Guy's In Love With You". I liked this one a lot as a single. It had that Bacharach sound that was so prevalent then, and I still think Herb's vocal was better on the mono single.

"Sandbox" was the flip side of "Without Her" and is one of those tracks that can be a detriment to driving. I find that I tend to speed up a little when this one gets going! There was one pressing of the single that had the unfortunate misspelling of Herb's last name.

1628010682440.png
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Shorty Rogers was familiar to me from his work with the Monkees (the single "Goin' Down" and the album THE BIRDS, THE BEES and THE MONKEES). He also was credited with arranging the voices and strings on the Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass CHRISTMAS ALBUM just a few months before.
 

Harry

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Shorty Rogers was familiar to me from his work with the Monkees (the single "Goin' Down" and the album THE BIRDS, THE BEES and THE MONKEES). He also was credited with arranging the voices and strings on the Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass CHRISTMAS ALBUM just a few months before.
Not a Monkees fan, but I do recall Shorty's name on the CHRISTMAS ALBUM from Herb and the boys. I think I associated it with all of the choral intros.
 

Mike Blakesley

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Staff member
Moderator
"Warm" took me a long time to warm up to - pun intended. It wasn't an instant favorite, but I've come to love the track the more I've heard it over the years. I think it might have been that vocal with Karen Philipp that pushed me over the edge.

OK I'm confused. There's a Karen Philipp vocal in there somewhere? Or did Karen record the song herself?
 

Harry

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There's an old MUSIC OF JULIUS WECHTER record that was released to the film industry to promote his compositions. The track, "Warm", has an uncredited female vocal. The old theory was that it was Cissy Wechter, but when asked by someone here, she denied it and said that this track was sung by Karen Philipp.

I put together a little YouTube video linked above with a picture of the cover of the LP, and Karen Philipp alongside.
 

JOv2

Well-Known Member
herb-warm.png



I've been looking for Julius' demo LP for about a year now -- no soap. I like that Julius used Karen to sing on his demo. Warm is deceptively simple and she nails it. Julius made a few concessions in arranging it as a vocal number: it's slower and less animated than Baja Nova while capturing Herb's smooth approach on the bridge.
"Sandbox" ...There was one pressing of the single that had the unfortunate misspelling of Herb's last name.

1628010682440.png
How embarrassing for A&M. Wonder what the root cause was attributed to. I'm sure there was a special storage box somewhere on the A&M lot for mementos like these.


Harry said:
"Girl Talk" - more trumpets here than on any other TjB record it seems as with Shorty Rogers treatment, there's a veritable brass curtain. It's gorgeous. Another winner on this "new" album.
Actually, Shorty had his trumpet section switch to flugelhorns for that arrangement. It makes sense: in '67-'69, Herb did not produce a shimmering metallic tone so he would not project well over 4 or 5 trumpets; but with the flugels he actually sits on-top of the arrangement. It works out quite nice. I actually wished that Herb would have seriously considered flugel -- the larger, open mellow tone would have been a good fit on much of this LP.
 
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Harry

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I wish I had an ear discerning enough to tell a flugelhorn from a trumpet from a cornet. They all sound about the same to me with nothing that I can put my finger on to identify.
 
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Michael Hagerty

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Contributor
I get the song a lot more now that I've heard Julius' version. Thanks!

By the way, I've seen JOv2 refer twice now to Baja Nova---what am I missing?
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
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I wish I had an ear discerning enough to tell a flugelhorn from a trumpet from a cornet. They all sound about the same to me with nothing that I can put my finger on to identify.
I can hear the differences, depending on who plays them. It sometimes help to listen to someone who plays both, as it's easier to make the comparison.

In terms of how the horns are shaped, the difference between the trumpet and flugelhorn is the sharpness of the bends, and the shape of the bore (the diameter of the tube, and how it changes). Brass instruments have both a conical bore (cone-shaped) and cylindrical bore (tube-shaped). Typically the instruments have a cylindrical bore where the mouthpiece attaches, and the bell shape is the end of the conical bore.

The trumpet has sharper bends and is more compact, and is said to be about 2/3 cylindrical bore and 1/3 conical bore. In a trumpet, you really don't see the bore getting larger until after the final bend of tubing.

1628093564468.png

The flugel, on the other hand, has much wider bends, and you can see that the bore starts increasing in size just after the first bend (past the spit valve), so it is about 1/3 cylindrical bore and 2/3 conical bore.

1628093453385.png

The result is the trumpet having a brighter/thinner/sharper tone where flugels have a thicker/dull/fuller tone. Trumpets will cut through ensembles much easier than the darker flugelhorn.

If you can tell the difference between Chuck Mangione and, say, Bob Findlay from the T.J.B. albums, then you've got it.

The cornet sits in between, as it has bends that are not as sharp as the trumpet, and is about 50/50 cylindrical/conical bore. It sits between the trumpet and flugelhorn in terms of sonic characteristics--not as bright as a trumpet, but brighter than a flute. At least when I was in band, the cornet was considered a "starter" instrument, and most moved to trumpet within a couple of years. Offhand, the only cornet player I can think of is Nat Adderley.
 

Mike Blakesley

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I remember somebody on here years ago theorizing that almost all of Herb's horn playing on Warm was flugelhorn. I definitely hear it in some spots (the slow songs, Sandbox, Ob-La-Di?) but part of the soft tone is undoubtedly just his horn style for that era. His playing is definitely not as "brassy" on this album as on the ones immediately ahead of it.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
I can hear the differences, depending on who plays them. It sometimes help to listen to someone who plays both, as it's easier to make the comparison.

In terms of how the horns are shaped, the difference between the trumpet and flugelhorn is the sharpness of the bends, and the shape of the bore (the diameter of the tube, and how it changes). Brass instruments have both a conical bore (cone-shaped) and cylindrical bore (tube-shaped). Typically the instruments have a cylindrical bore where the mouthpiece attaches, and the bell shape is the end of the conical bore.

The trumpet has sharper bends and is more compact, and is said to be about 2/3 cylindrical bore and 1/3 conical bore. In a trumpet, you really don't see the bore getting larger until after the final bend of tubing.

View attachment 6843

The flugel, on the other hand, has much wider bends, and you can see that the bore starts increasing in size just after the first bend (past the spit valve), so it is about 1/3 cylindrical bore and 2/3 conical bore.

View attachment 6842

The result is the trumpet having a brighter/thinner/sharper tone where flugels have a thicker/dull/fuller tone. Trumpets will cut through ensembles much easier than the darker flugelhorn.

If you can tell the difference between Chuck Mangione and, say, Bob Findlay from the T.J.B. albums, then you've got it.

The cornet sits in between, as it has bends that are not as sharp as the trumpet, and is about 50/50 cylindrical/conical bore. It sits between the trumpet and flugelhorn in terms of sonic characteristics--not as bright as a trumpet, but brighter than a flute. At least when I was in band, the cornet was considered a "starter" instrument, and most moved to trumpet within a couple of years. Offhand, the only cornet player I can think of is Nat Adderley.
I agree I own both a Trumpet and A Flugelhorn and I will say from my experience they both are different I'm new to the Flugelhorn and its a little more challenging for the smaller mouthpiece and the intonation challenges but nonetheless fun to play after all its all just for fun
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
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I remember somebody on here years ago theorizing that almost all of Herb's horn playing on Warm was flugelhorn. I definitely hear it in some spots (the slow songs, Sandbox, Ob-La-Di?) but part of the soft tone is undoubtedly just his horn style for that era. His playing is definitely not as "brassy" on this album as on the ones immediately ahead of it.
That's a key thing also--trumpet players each have different styles, with some being very bright and others being more relaxed or soft.
 
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