What a find!

[Terry Lattimer]

There's actually a basis in science here. I read recently that our brains actually work overtime trying to reconcile digital audio. It sounds like sound but something deep in the synapses knows it's not natural and has to work overtime to "translate" for us. It actually creates "digital fatigue".

Very interesting; "digital fatigue". Tho' I don't want to be openly stoned in this forum and certainly not as a new member, but I have to admit that I succummed to listening to CDs for convenience sake more than any other as I would listen to 20 to 30 a day, easily, as backgrond to my 18 hour a day sculpting - sounds like I'm confessing and justifying at a 12 step meeting - thankfully I was taking Herbalife Metabolife tabs daily with the outlawed, then not outlawed, body-producing ephedrine - so maybe that leveled-out the fatique without me knowing it.
Still very interesting something we may not know the effects of for a while; there's a sci-fi conspiracy movie in there somewhere.

 

[Rudy]

There's actually a basis in science here. I read recently that our brains actually work overtime trying to reconcile digital audio. It sounds like sound but something deep in the synapses knows it's not natural and has to work overtime to "translate" for us. It actually creates "digital fatigue".

For years I realized I subconsciously gritted my teeth while playing through a lot of CDs. I've found higher resolution digital to be less fatiguing (SACD, DVD-Audio, and some of the downloads from HD Tracks). If that theory is correct, maybe our brains are trying to fill in the missing parts between the samples. And with higher resolution, it is closer to the source and there is not as much to fill in.

16-bit digital is really coarse compared to 24-bit. Each additional bit doubles the resolution, so a 24-bit recording has 256 times the resolution of 16-bit. (Whereas doubling the sampling rate from, say, 48kHz to 96kHz, only doubles the resolution.)

What's interesting is that I have a few LPs that are made from digital sources, and it takes that edge off. It could be that the LP itself is acting like some sort of analog filter. Even with minor pops and ticks (which are few and far between on some of the best 180g pressings I own), the music just seems to sound more involving and more "right". It's subtle, but it's there. And I've been kicking myself for letting so many of my LPs go after having replaced with CDs.

One thing that might help me with CDs if I were to use a tube buffer stage at the output of the CD player.

I do like having clean (and good sounding) digital copies of music, especially since I use digital music in so many places now. But for just listening and enjoying, LPs are what I gravitate to.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

And if the industry had never embraced digital, but had simply worked to improve analog to the level of the 180g pressings available now, the piracy issue certainly wouldn't have been as devastating.

 

[Rudy]

And if the industry had never embraced digital, but had simply worked to improve analog to the level of the 180g pressings available now, the piracy issue certainly wouldn't have been as devastating.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Oh, that's right...blank cassettes were supposed to be the death of the industry. People making copies of albums in real time...

They hadn't seen anything yet...

 

[Rudy]

I wonder if they outlawed wire recorders in the days of the Edison cylinders.

Some artists now give away tracks for free. Others charge for downloaded music based on the honor system: pay for what you think it's worth. I think sincere efforts like this do a lot more to promote music than having the heavy-handed lobbyist group, the RIAA, treating citizens as criminals...

 

[Terry Lattimer]

Hey Mike and the guys!

Just dropped-in to let you know that I've started a Hubpages blog and it features the Top Ten Classic Historic Rock Concerts from 1968 -1972 - all ten reviews are up. Also beginning same for 1972 thru 1975. These concert reviews are also good excuses to chronicle the culture and the way it was. Fun stuff, because the times were fun (excluding the war, discrimination and asassinations)!
So, check it out if you so desire: http://double0individual.hubpages.com/ and you can follow to get each published article - I'm publishing one a day!

You all have a terrific weekend!

Terry

 

[JMK]

Any chance we can finally see those PR sheets, Michael?

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Absolutely, JMK. Actually having the originals dump was a good thing, because my current cell phone takes much better photos than the one I had when I got the album three and a half years ago. So let's see what we have here:

When I saw the hole bored in the upper right corner of the jacket, I knew this was either a cut-out or a promo copy.

Pull out the sleeve...and it's still a toss-up. Promo copies were shipped with the commercial inner sleeve. I was happy to see that this had the correct sleeve for an early pressing.

And finally the disc....it's a white-label promo copy. What I don't remember...did the commercial pressings just say "SERGIO MENDES" instead of "SERGIO MENDES & BRASIL '66" on the label?

When I looked inside the jacket, where the record had been, I saw two additional items: an 8X10 black and white glossy publicity photo and a multi-page news release.

Again, like the label, the news release focuses on Sergio and not Brasil '66.

Little known tidbit (at least to me)...Sergio was living in Dick Van Dyke's old house. Obviously, this was also written before Grachina was a public thing.

The news release also has a list of concerts Sergio had played to that point, as well as albums and singles released.

And then, the 8X10...Lani and Laudir are the only ones who don't look totally ticked off. Karen may win an award for most defensive body language seen in a promotional photo.

 

[Harry]

And finally the disc....it's a white-label promo copy. What I don't remember...did the commercial pressings just say "SERGIO MENDES" instead of "SERGIO MENDES & BRASIL '66" on the label?

I have two stock copies and both just say "SERGIO MENDES". Funny I never took notice of that before...

The innersleeve that appears in both of my stock copies is this one:



...rather than the mountains version.

Harry

 

[JMK]

Thanks for posting that, Mike, it's fun to see.

Sergio's house in Encino was actually on Encino Avenue right off of Ventura, basically two or three blocks from my brother-in-law's house. It was destroyed in the Northridge Quake, but you can see bits and pieces of it (no pun intended) in some of the picture sleeve 45s from circa 1969-70. That was the house that Harrison Ford built the studio for.

 

[JMK]

Re: the PR photo. A *lot* of Sergio's PR pics have them looking REALLY serious.

 

[Harry]

Re: the PR photo. A *lot* of Sergio's PR pics have them looking REALLY serious.

The non-smiling faces gave the group a very mysterious look on those album covers - part of the mystique.

 

[KevCav333]

Browsing through the used vinyl at Half Price Books in Phoenix Thursday night, I found a white label promo copy of Stillness for $4. When I pulled the inner sleeve (the correct "Preserving The Sound Outside"), I found something else....a multi-page Sergio bio (on "News from A&M Records" letterhead) and an 8x10 promo glossy of Sergio and Brasil '66 (with Lani, not Grachina).

As a former DJ/program director, my memory says A&M stopped shipping stuff like that in promo copies around '71 or '72...and those things rarely stayed with the LPs.

Needless to say, I bought it!

---Michael Hagerty

Jealous! Nice find.

 

[Mark Potampa]

Mike,
Interesting, I moved to Mammoth in the summer '71 - we would go to Bishop for our grocery shopping! Moved back down to L.A. after surviving what locals were calling the worst (most snowfall) winter in a decade.

Do not recall the trad. Inglewood store, I was a Westchester kid we had the Westchester Music Store a big corner building just before LAX, got the Boss 30 there.

Ahh, free records - cut, punched, promos and white-labeled promos - I started acquring those as I made friends with the distributors, I had a really nice group of peop out at UA that would always have whatever new releases waiting for me when I made Crane's pick-up of legit LPs - and most all dist. were loose with the promos back then - word of mouth was excellent marketing, if the LPs were good!

You know, I'm not sure when Crane's closed. Through Crane's I made friends at Record Rack one-stop and left Crane's to Rack Job there so I pretty much got any LP I wanted and then joined up with the Nifoussi's who specialized and the $2.99 and $2.49 and $1.99 LP promo cut-outs (OOP) - that kept me fully-loaded - by the time I left their store, Grammy and Granny's in Westwood, I think Crane's was closed and that would have been 1977. It could have closed anytime in between - same for Palos Verdes - the times changed and maybe some shadiness caught up and spoiled all the fun.

Harry,
About George Crane, he was a character for sure, he was a little guy with very red thick straw hair and kinda buck teeth, I won't say weird, but well, unique. I liked him.
I don't believe that he was related to Ken Crane unless there was some Cain and Abel drama as I never heard him mentioned. Like I said before, I was 19 and while I was aware of a kinda shady air about the place it was never to a degree that felt illegal or dishonest even - and I was serious about the job and it paid off in the long run - besides it was the '60s we were making the rules!

Also an A&M related tid-bit; I was a USPS "Postman to the Stars" in Malibu back in the '80s and sometimes delivered to Herb Alpert and Lani Hall at the northern-most estates at Broad Beach - Cheech Marin was a neighbor - weren't Cheech & Chong on Ode Records? Wasn't that an A&M-owned label?

As you all know; life is so much sweeter and enjoyable with music. Amen.

Mike, thanks for clearing-up the Ode history.
Ahhh, yes, that tripped the meme file - Crane did have a Santa Barbera, Isla Vista(?) store - wow - I forgot all about that - I never was involved with that store - I kinda think it was an "excuse" investment as I think Crane was married but he definately had a double life with his "store wife" and the trips north to the SB store were perfect getaways - weird - I could be wrong but everything was a little hinky around the edges with that whole "enterprise" - as were so many ventures back then when trying to make a go of alternate lifestyles and businesses. (I sold candles to Broadway's notions dept. back in the early '70s - no re-sale #, no credit check, purchase orders, just walked in told 'em how much, paid me and put them on their shelves for sale - true and true for the times.)
I'll bet that Crane hung his store name on his buddy's in Venice, wait, I think it was on Lincoln Blvd - that was prob the fourth store . Wow, trippy catalysts for memories. Once I was managing the Palos Verdes store I was pretty busy and no longer at nerve center in Inglewood.
The list price increases affected by the gas (oil) shortage signaled the end of an era and if we all remember the LPs got thinner, way easy to bend AND began to have visible imperfections within the vinyl (especially Columbia releases). Previously I would obtain virgin vinyl imports from mostly Tower but from Moby Disc too , but then started getting import issues just to have good unpoppy copies of favorite releases. I remember trading in LPs at Moby Disc to get a mint A&M virgin vinyl English import release of Humble Pie's "1st(?) LP "Humble Pie" so that the intro to "Live With Me" would be flawless - and it was.

Hi Terry & Mike,

Not in any way an insider like you both were; worked at Crane's (you call it the Palos Verdes store) in Torrance on a break from school 73-late 74 roughly and what a cool experience. Was not a manager like you Terry but did have interaction with the Inglewood quite often, we shuttled requests for customers back and forth. Probably missed the heydays of the chain but did see firsthand the civil war that erupted between George (Crane) and his wife; She took the stores in the north (Ventura, SB maybe one other) some weird arrangement between the 2 over venice store. Periodically George's wife would burst in the store right around closing and try to demand the till out of the register - exciting stuff when you're just a happy music-loving kid! George would drill us in a very nice way along with Linda (? if I have the name right - his girlfriend...) as what to do so we all thought it was part of the thrill. The BEST moment for me though was when Inglewood called hurriedly and asked if we might have a copy of the soundtrack for the film "Blow-Up", I was checked the bins and yep it was. They just said some people would be coming by right away, and they did, one of them be Jimmy Page (the yardbirds on that one...) still young and clueless but totally awed I handed it over to Jimmy who didn't say much either. But the next day we got some Bad Co. tickets to a Forum show. What a time. I'm sure the stores finally closed down because the divorce was getting so darn messy & violent. But I'll remember the music. Always...

thanks guys!

Mark Potampa (Nevada City)

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Mark:

And now we know the rest of the story! In a thread that started seven years ago. The internet and A&M Corner are remarkable things!

 

[Rudy]

There's actually a basis in science here. I read recently that our brains actually work overtime trying to reconcile digital audio. It sounds like sound but something deep in the synapses knows it's not natural and has to work overtime to "translate" for us. It actually creates "digital fatigue".

Very interesting; "digital fatigue". ....
Still very interesting something we may not know the effects of for a while; there's a sci-fi conspiracy movie in there somewhere.

Maybe I should split these out to a new thread. As here I am, kicking up dust again in this one.

Compressed (lossy) music files like MP3, M4A, WMA, etc. are known to be even more stressful than lossless digital (WAV, FLAC, AIFF, etc.). But I feel that some of it is from the non-musical artifacts (in essence, added distortion) that are part of the sound. M4A and WMA are about equal, quality-wise, at the same bitrate, but MP3 is lower quality. Once someone points out what those artifacts are, they stand out like a sore thumb (and it made me understand why the files didn't sound quite right).

But, one thing to keep in mind about digital fatigue is that it could actually be the player. Since I wrote last in this thread, I moved away from the Pioneer universal player to an Oppo BDP-105. Certainly not cheap, but I did get it as a demo for a deep discount (it looks flawless, and works perfectly), plus it's an investment since I plan on having it for a long time. I mention it because the digital-to-analog section in the player is very highly regarded. It is not only smoother and more "analog" sounding than the Pioneer, the soundstage on it (the placement of instruments between the speakers) is incredible. It is not a false effect--it is just a side-effect of having equipment which can extract and properly process the data. Sounds go beyond the boundaries of the speakers, plus you also hear depth, front to back. (I expected to hear little if any difference from the Pioneer...but the difference is such that any listener could point it out.) It makes CDs sound much better, and it plays all of the higher resolution formats as well. And these days, I play primarily from a music server (a Synology DS214play), so the disc player portion rarely gets used. Since I have a mix of file resolutions, it makes more sense in my situation.

Anyway, I mention the player because I know that on many CD players, the brick wall filtering cuts in after 20kHz, having a very steep slope to filter out the 22.05KHz (half the CD sampling rate) frequency as it can have nasty side-effects. (I'm keeping it simple.) When you have a steep filter, the filter itself also has side-effects, some having a "ringing" effect. It's way up there in frequency, beyond what many of us can hear, but it can lend a harshness to the sound nonetheless. That may be causing some of that fatigue which we can sense more than we can hear.

And it goes without saying that the better mastered recordings are also less fatiguing.