What would have happened if Herb Alpert hadn't existed?

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Yazmin_Salinas

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here are many things that would have happened if Herb Alpert hadn't existed:

*A&M Records wouldn't have existed.
*Lani Hall wouldn't have been a successful singer.
*Sergio Mendes wouldn't have become famous.
 
Yikes.
I would have had to collect another label. And put a shed in the back yard.
My basement is too small to hold Columbia or RCA.
JB
 
Once again, :rolleyes:

* Lani Hall was not discovered by Herb; she was discovered by Sergio Mendes in Chicago, and was a successful singer long before she even met Herb. (Gee Yasmin, I thought you were a fan...you didn't know this?)

* Sergio Mendes was also well-known before he met Herb. Sergio had several albums on the Atlantic label before he knew Herb, and Brasil '66 could have easily signed with any number of other labels.

* A&M Records wouldn't have existed? I might have to give you that one, although Jerry Moss would have probably gotten into the business with some other artist if he hadn't hooked up with Herb.
 
Mike Blakesley said:
* A&M Records wouldn't have existed? I might have to give you that one, although Jerry Moss would have probably gotten into the business with some other artist if he hadn't hooked up with Herb.

If Cannonball Adderley and Jerry Moss had of hooked up together, we would still have had A&M records.

Just a thought.

Mike
 
I wouldn't have all those Non-LP '45's to still hunt for...

I still would still collect stuff on other labels, such as ABC, ABC/Dunhill, impulse!, Skye, Chelsea/Roxbury, 20th Century, etc.

Really I don't think I'd have gotten to hear some of the best music I ever heard either...



Dave
 
Mike Blakesley said:
* Lani Hall was not discovered by Herb; she was discovered by Sergio Mendes in Chicago, and was a successful singer long before she even met Herb. (Gee Yasmin, I thought you were a fan...you didn't know this?)

When I mentioned that Lani Hall wouldn't have been a succsessful singer, I was talking about her solo career!!!
 
Lani's biggest success as a solo singer would be when she had won a Grammy in 1986.Other than that, Lani hasn't been that successful as a solo singer.
 
That depends on what you mean by success. She hasn't had any hit records, true. But she HAS made a bunch of good albums, on her own terms. Most people would call that successful. I doubt if Herb & Lani had big chart dreams when she made many of her records...a lot of them were really against the grain of the current music for the times they were released in.
 
Okay, I'll play:

[*]Without the huge sales of Whipped Cream, Going Places and What Now My Love (3 of the Top 5 albums of 1966), rock would have displaced "adult" music from the upper reaches of the sales charts (apart from movie and Broadway soundtracks) in 1966.

[*]Without Herb's albums drawing buyers into the "adult" music sections of the record stores, sales of other "adult" artists of the time (Frank Sinatra, The Vogues, Petula Clark, Ray Charles, Dionne Warwick) would have declined much more rapidly.

[*]In the face of those declining sales, Middle-Of-The-Road music stations would have changed format to Top 40, Country or News.

[*]Sergio Mendes would still have formed Brasil '66, with Lani Hall as lead vocalist, but would have had a difficult time getting airplay and sales because of the shift in musical tastes and available radio formats. To his label, Sergio would be just another marginal act and given no special attention.

[*]Burt Bacharach, having begun his string of hits with Dionne Warwicke a few years earlier on Scepter Records, would continue, but would find many of the same obstacles to airplay and sales Sergio encountered. The reduced cash flow would put Scepter out of business by the end of the decade. Additionally, without play for Dionne and with no greater success in his solo career on Kapp than he'd had previously, Bacharach would not become America's most popular songwriter in the late 1960s. The soundtrack for the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" would be written by someone else...Neil Diamond? Bob Dylan?

With no A&M Records to sell to, the CBS Television Network, at the end of production of Perry Mason in 1966, would sell the old Chaplin Studios at 1416 N. La Brea to real estate investors. By the 1970s, it would be decided that the land was more valuable than the buildings, and before historic preservationists could intervene, the buildings would be razed and the lot redeveloped into a mini-mall (hey, they did it to Tiny Naylor's up the block!).

[*]The Baja Marimba Band would not have been formed.

[*]Chris Montez would have continued to record for small local labels in L.A. with little or no success.

[*]The Grads would have continued playing clubs in Lake Tahoe. Herb Alpert wouldn't have been there to hear them, change their name to The Sandpipers and give them a recording contract.

[*]Claudine Longet would record for her husband Andy Williams' Barnaby label. But record sales would elude her, as would fame, since the rapid shift in musical tastes would result in the early cancellation of Williams' TV series and specials.

[*]Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart would have recorded for Colgems, and had limited success as the label focused on priority one...The Monkees.

[*]Jimmie Rodgers would have continued his recording career, but on another label and would have been caught in the rock and roll riptide a couple of years earlier.

[*]Phil Ochs would have recorded for Vanguard and sold minimally.

[*]Al Hirt would injure himself attempting to play a joke Dixieland version of "Carmen" (OK, I'm kidding about that one).

[*]Liza Minelli would have difficulty getting a recording contract. Hidebound Columbia would finally sign her, but she'd be blown out two years later by Clive Davis.

[*]Pete Jolly, Wes Montgomery, Antonio Carlos Jobim, George Benson, Paul Desmond and Quincy Jones would have wound up on jazz labels like Impulse, Verve or Blue Thumb and never heard by a mass audience apart from jazz radio airplay.

[*]Lee Michaels would have been just fine. But Procol Harum, Cat Stevens , Joe Cocker, Free, Humble Pie, Supertramp , Stealer's Wheel and Peter Frampton would have been on small labels specializing in British imports (think Deram) and would have been somewhat less successful.

[*]Paul Williams would never have had a recording contract.

[*]Neither would The Captain and Tenille.

[*]The Carpenters would have been a novelty act from Downey (the girl's the drummer!), known only to the locals. After college, they would have gotten "real", non-showbiz jobs.

And most tragically....

We would have never seen Dolores Erickson covered in whipped (okay, shaving) cream.

---Michael Hagerty
 
This is all, at best, conjecture. Any of these artists could have been signed to other labels by other people in the biz, as Movie Maven Mike has already succinctly stated.
 
Oh...I forgot...there would have been an A&M Records...founded in 1973 by Franklin Ajaye and Sister Janet Mead. It would still be going strong today after a bold stroke in the 1990s...combating the rise of "Gangsta Rap" with "Nun Rap".

Remarkably, it caught on....

---Michael Hagerty
 
Well the conjectures Michael Hagerty stated above seemed to sum-up things best--that is 'til the last Post on "Gangsta Rap/Nun Rap" came along... :rolleyes: :laugh:

Sista' Janet Mead, I think would've recorded for a Contemporary Christian label like Word, Sparrow or Myrrh, thank you...! :angel:

I'd say Franklin Ajaye would'a just been picked up by Warner Bros., 20th Century or any of the others... (--That specialize in Comedy, that is)

Just to add one GOOD NOTE to the Jazz Artists, it's most likely Creed Taylor would'a just formed CTi, as he had MINUS THE A&M--just to make a long story short...!:cool:



Dave
 
While I had my tongue firmly in cheek for parts of it, the point I wanted to make is this:

Herb Alpert had a huge impact on American popular music. Not just in terms of his own success, and that of his label...but the ripple effect. As I noted, his record sales brought people into contact with other non-rock artists and boosted their sales. That gave non-rock music another 4 or 5 years of mass acceptance it probably would not otherwise have had.

And while Creed Taylor was a giant in the jazz world before and after his 3-year alliance with A&M, it was the affiliation with A&M that gave his artists their greatest exposure....beyond what they enjoyed at Verve or what they would have (apart from Deodato) at CTi without A&M.

As for the talent finding other labels...some, if not most, would. But what made A&M special was that it was artist-friendly. It went further for its artists than the other labels would. Getting signed doesn't automatically mean that you'll be treated well, supported when trying to get the music right (somewhere on this site is the story of Herb Alpert telling Burt Bacharach to forget the cost and go back into the studio if he thought he could make something better), and promoted adequately, much less passionately, to radio and retailers.

It would have been a different world without Herb.

---Michael Hagerty
 
As a life long fan of Herb and A&M, I would NOT have gone to my first concert at the ripe old age of 5, except to hear the TJB! I was hooked on his records, and as I grew, I developed a passion for A&M, partly because of love of Herbs playing style, but as some of you aptly point out, because of an eclectic blend of musical style. Jerry Moss is a record company genius, but the blend of Herb and Jerry was not matched anywhere else in the often brutal record business!
Dave :)
 
Michael's post is excellent and well thought out.

CTI would have stayed with Verve until going independent. I've always thought that had Sam Cooke lived, he would have recorded SOUL MACHINE instead of Richard Barbary.

JB
 
Hmmm. I don't post as much as others but this topic I could not ignore.
Lets see...without Herb..what do they call it? The "Butterfly effect?"

A bit personal here but the first gift my wife of 28 years bought me on our first date was "Coney Island" and she won me over on the spot. Our 20 year old daughter was conceived listening to "Tangerine." So if not for Herb I would not have the beautiful daughter who has cost me some serious $$$$ for braces, gymnastics, ballet and now tuition...gee..thanks a lot Herb!

Without Herb I (We) would not have the music to soothe my soul on hard days when reality of the world seems overwhelming.
 
Maybe there wouldn't be all these demands to see his stuff reissued on CD after it had long gone Out-Of-Print! :|



Dave :bigeek:
 
If HA had never been born:
1) Songs like "Baby Talk" and "Wonderful World" would not exist.
2) Someone else would have played drums in the "Ten Commandments" film.
3) The Carpenters may have been picked up by another label, but they never would have recorded "Close to You" and without that song their career may have never taken off. (But it's also possible Karen would still be alive today.) (That last statement is not meant to imply in any way that HA had anything to do with her tragic death or could have prevented it.)
4) Some lesser-known act, the Beatles, may have sold the most albums in the US in 1966.
5) I'd have a lot more cash today, plus a lot more storage space in my entertainment room.
 
I would have started a record label with Jerry Moss and formed a band called the Tijuana Brass.
 
Michael Hagerty said:
[*]...Paul Williams would never have had a recording contract...

Actually Paul Williams would've easily stayed with Reprise Records and would not have enjoyed the notority there as he has at A&M; a move to perhaps RCA (where the Carpenters and maybe even We Five and the Sandpipers would be, and the latter actually WERE for one final LP) would also be eminent...

And let's also say that from the names of Russ Titleman, Lenny Waronker, Randy Newman & VanDyke Parks on the back cover of LP/SP 4131, Warner/Reprise is where Roger Nichols & The Small Circle of Friends also almost ended up... Probably the same for The Parade...



Dave

...Thankful that Things DID Turn-Out the way They Did!!! :love:
 
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