Why did Karen dislike "Solitaire" so much?

[RainyDays]

I've read from a few sources (as I'm sure many have) that Karen (and Richard, I think) didn't much care for this beautiful track. Was it the very dark tone, vocals, the arranging? I think all three are perfectly tuned, but I think it could have something deep down in Karen. Could she relate to the song a little too much, despite it being about a man? I mean if you put a woman in the lyrics, it mirrors Karen's isolation and lonliness eerily so.

 

[Dave60640]

I cannot speak on behalf of KC, but when I first heard that she too did not like the song that much, I let out a sigh of relief. I was always afraid of my "blasphemous" feelings that I just "didn't like" this song and kept my negative thoughts to myself. For me, the song (while the singing, arranging and production are top notch) just doesn't go anywhere. I can see why they chose not to do it "live" because that's the last thing the audience would be while listening. Again, while this is the best version I've ever heard of this song, it just doesn't grab me. " They just put lipstick on a pig."

 

[Harry]

"Solitaire" was never a favorite of mine - I thought it dragged down HORIZON too much with "Desperado" being the other deathly-slow culprit. However, once the single version was released on CD and I was reminded of the ever-so-minor improvements, my opinion of it increased nevertheless. It's still not a favorite, but if I need to hear it, I'll chose that single version.

Harry

 

[Dave]

I thought of it as an "answer song" to Neil Sedaka's 'Love Will Keep Us Together', though it was expectedly not as big of a hit!

Made more sense than 'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do': Neil introduced a ballad version of it, while the Carpenters resurrected his "jubilation" from the '50's...

Maybe 'Solitaire' just didn't meet the "underlying expectations" and it didn't make the dent in the charts it should have, in Karen's own opinion...

Just a song too "perfect", or in wanting it to be, she just only saw the flaws...


-- Dave

 

[A&M Retro]

I remember Richard being interviewed at some point, and saying how they mixed that song to death. They just couldn't get it as perfect as they wanted it to be. It is a bit 'bloodless' with its perfection, but I still love Karen's lead vocals. And I remember playing it on a jukebox in the summer of '75, and being happily surprised at the added instruments on the single version.

 

[RainyDays]

"Solitaire" was never a favorite of mine - I thought it dragged down HORIZON too much with "Desperado" being the other deathly-slow culprit. However, once the single version was released on CD and I was reminded of the ever-so-minor improvements, my opinion of it increased nevertheless. It's still not a favorite, but if I need to hear it, I'll chose that single version.

Harry

I actually love Desperado! But I can totally see where your coming from when looking at it from an "album" POV. Horizon is not a rousing, crowd-pleasing album, of course, and is much more intimate experience. Though, the more I hear Solitaire, it never seems as slow as when I first heard it. Desperado is simply beautiful - it may not be paced very fast but this kind of track needs it's time (in other words it could never have been a single).

 

[A&M Retro]

I think "Desperado" is one of Karen's best performances ever. Definitely Top 10 for me. She sings the verses with a hell of a lot of power. And the arrangement is great, too.

 

[Harry]

Taken as a separate entities, both "Desperado" and "Solitaire" are fine with me. I simply object to them being such a large percentage of an inherently short album.

Harry

 

[aaflyer98]

I love Karen's vocals and Richard's arrangements on Soltaire and Desperado. Karen hits some low notes that just give me goosebumps, then and now! In hindsight we know that Solitaire didn't make it as a single. I do love the single mix of Solitaire, too. But what I remember most is hearing Solitaire on the radio, coming through these tiny speakers from a white radio that hung under our kitchen cabinets in my parents kitchen. Funny how that song reminds me of that! That's what music does....takes you back to another place and time!

 

[A&M Retro]

In retrospect, "Solitaire" made it to #17, and got a lot of airplay. So that wasn't too bad at all. Plus it's one hell of a vocal from Karen. But during their heyday, it was considered a relative failure after so many top 1o records. Amazing. Too bad so many singles released afterward didn't make it to #17, but deserved to go higher ("All You Get From Love Is A Love Song" being a prime example).

 

[newvillefan]

Too bad so many singles released afterward didn't make it to #17, but deserved to go higher ("All You Get From Love Is A Love Song" being a prime example).

Of all their relative 'flops', that one was really undeserved - it is perfect for radio and should have easily made the top 10.

 

[Dave]

Andy Williams actually was one of the first notable artists to do "Solitaire" (of which his album its on is named after) and a number of artists such as Johnny Mathis, Ray Conniff Singers and a host of others seemed to range from "Competent" to "Excellent" to "Just OK"...

Karen must have been sold on what she'd heard right from "Go" and must have just been disappointed that her version great as it may be, just undesservedly couldn't compete!


-- Dave

 

[GaryAlan]

On page 34 of the Records and Radio Magazine for 1975 July, there
is an interesting graph reflecting audience response regarding Solitaire.
The graph reflects a combination of sales, airplay and requests.
As reflected by this graph, the song looked very promising.
See here:http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-RandR/1970s/1975/RR-1975-07-25.pdf

 

[Guitarmutt]

Well, great thread and interesting question.

To me, Karen always tried to exude hope. Even at her lowest lows and her deepest depths she smiled hopefully. It's documented over and over again. "Little Girl Blue" drives that point home over and over: the hope, crushed, the hope, blunted, the hope, shined over. The hope anyway.

The song in question, which frankly I love, is a song devoid of hope. There are people still today devoid of hope, as there were in 1975, and we collectively, wish it were not so.

A world without hope is scarcely worth thinking about to us, but there are plenty who dwell there everyday, even still 30 years later.

I think, Karen did not want to sing the hopeless song. She really wanted to sing of hope. She wanted to be able to look ahead beyond any misery.

Maybe that is one of the intangible things we love about our hero, Karen?

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I can totally see why she didn't like "Solitaire." In my opinion, it's a plodding, boring ballad that spins its wheels. It (and "Desperado") are funeral dirges of high order but funeral dirges nonetheless. Not only are they both slow, they feel slow. I haven't heard either in ages and I'm in no hurry to listen again. I wish neither were on the record. "Love Me For What I Am" is simply gorgeous. If they wanted more ballads, they should have found different tunes.

Ed

 

[Rumbahbah]

I can totally see why she didn't like "Solitaire." In my opinion, it's a plodding, boring ballad that spins its wheels. It (and "Desperado") are funeral dirges of high order but funeral dirges nonetheless. Not only are they both slow, they feel slow. I haven't heard either in ages and I'm in no hurry to listen again. I wish neither were on the record. "Love Me For What I Am" is simply gorgeous. If they wanted more ballads, they should have found different tunes.

Ed

Absolutely. I much prefer 'Desperado' to 'Solitaire (I just think it's a better song in itself) but to have both of them on Horizon, being so slow as they were, was a mistake. There should only have been one of them on there.

I'm also a big fan of 'Love Me For What I Am'. Again, it's 'slow' but it doesn't drag like the above two. It's not a song that seems to attract a lot of attention, but were it down to me, I'd have made it the next single after 'Only Yesterday'. It's a fine vocal with a good (and unusually adult) subject matter, which means I can forgive the slightly predictable fuzz guitar interlude.

 

[GaryAlan]

"Love Me For What I Am", such a gem!
It does seem to be well known in the Philippines, though.
I'm "on the fence" regarding Solitaire. Slow,plodding,...yes.
But, vocally it is stunning. Karen gives a chill-factor reading throughout.
Arrangement, per the original single, I love.
Desperado, well, no matter which artist covers it, I am not,and never have been, a fan of the song.
But, again, Karen's vocal interpretation rescues this one for me.

 

[Harry]

I used to agree that "Solitaire" and "Desperado" really drag down the HORIZON album to a screeching halt. Basically I still do, but in recent years I've come to appreciate "Solitaire" more since its single version release on 2004's GOLD. I find it amazing that the slight changes to the record make it sound so much more exciting, to my ears anyway.

I suppose I heard the single version played on radio all those years ago, but I'd forgotten it and never really noticed that the album version wasn't the same. Richard himself questioned why he bothered with the changes, but I guess his initial instincts paid off.

Harry

 

[LondonRobert]

Karen's vocal performance on Solitaire is magnificent and it's a great arrangement. I think it's one chorus too long at the end - the whole chorus is repeated again and it just goes on too long because of that.

 

[Jeff]

Solitaire and I didn't fall deeply in love until long after release. Now a showcase of technical/natural art. Desperado same thing. But now I love to hear Karen belt it out. Vocally supreme

 

[BarryT60]

I loved every note from the first piano intro to the last violin echo.... The chorus sores. The arrangement is superb. And the vocal hauntingly blew me away in the summer of '75 and does to this day. I wonder if Desperado would have been a more commercial hit, but I was pleased Solitaire was released as a single. Probably - the non-top ten factor was that it was a summer release, and summers songs are usually just happier. Certainly, in the slower first verse, there was no "dance-ability" to it - a factor I think effected I Need To Be In Love also - at a time when a dance vibe was becoming more relevant.

But all in all - I think Solitaire was and remains a masterpiece.

 

[Geographer]

My problem with Horizon is that it needed two more songs. Both Karen and Richard's strengths are showcased all through this album...but it is too short. Aurora and Eventide, as moody and pristine as they are, make great bookends, but there needed to be more between those bookends. But Horizon remains in my top 5 of all their albums. Desperado, Love Me For A What I am, and Only Yesterday are the stand-out tracks. I agree with Harry that the single version of Solitaire made the difference between not caring for the song and loving the song. The added effects (organ, etc.) add the dramatic "push" behind Karen and the lyrics. It is now one of my favorites!

 

[kprather]

Here's what Karen had to say about "Solitaire" in a 1978 interview with Gary Theroux, featured in the liner notes of "Reader's Digest Music: Carpenters, Their Greatest Hits and Finest Performances":

"It was a good record but never did. . . . For some strange reason, [Richard] loves it, the vocal performance. I liked it too, but somehow it drags for me. I don't know."

 

[Dave]

So then simply put: It wasn't her SPEED????


-- Dave

 

[JeffM]

I loved every note from the first piano intro to the last violin echo.... The chorus sores. The arrangement is superb. And the vocal hauntingly blew me away in the summer of '75 and does to this day.

I loved it too (single version.) The chorus sores? Sure hope they saw their doctor! Looks like you've been victimized by spellcheck (haven't we all?) I get pretty soar myself when that happens...