why don't we hear ...

[ringves]

The comments about re-orchestrating or "un-orchestrating" the C's recordings reminded me of a conversation I had way back in 1996.

A few months before the release of Karen's solo album, I heard that it might be released. I couldn't believe it so I called Phil Ramone's office in NY to confirm if it was going to be released. The person at the office hesitated to confirm anything and said "we'll get back to you".

Well ...

about an hour later, Phil Ramone himself called me back to discuss the upcoming release of the album. I couldn't believe it !

The reason this thread reminded me of that conversation is that I remember he mentioned that he had contemplated "updating" the arrangements to make them sound more contemporary. In the end, of course, the decision was made to stick with the original arrangements. I'm not sure whose decision this was, but it's interesting that there was some consideration given to using arrangements different from what was done back in 1979 / 1980.

 

[toeknee4bz]

As I remember, Karen's solo album finally surfaced in 1996... Thank God they stuck with the original arrangements! The true and loyal fans who would actually purchase this long-awaited gem deserved to hear the album in it's original form. And since you wouldn't likely hear it on the radio anyway, who cares about making it sound "contemporary"?
And to sum up the sentiment of this entire thread, one might remember the description of radio by Dennis DeYoung back in 1990: "...a fickle and intangible business."

 

[newvillefan]

The reason this thread reminded me of that conversation is that I remember he mentioned that he had contemplated "updating" the arrangements to make them sound more contemporary. In the end, of course, the decision was made to stick with the original arrangements. I'm not sure whose decision this was, but it's interesting that there was some consideration given to using arrangements different from what was done back in 1979 / 1980.

What's also interesting, is who designed and signed off the artwork for the album. Phil claimed that every part of the 1996 release was as Karen had approved it, artwork included.

The finished product is quite clearly NOT what was originally planned, because the A&M artwork had the Voice of The Heart cover as Karen's solo album cover, with the album in hues of red, purple etc. I for one would give anything to see that original proof.

Stephen

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I too would give anything to have seen what Karen's solo album cover inside and out would have been approved to look like by Karen, we do know that Karen signed a large cover of VOTH photo album w/out the Carpenters logo, she signed it and presented it to Itchy Ramone this was around the time of her solo album, it's interesting cause here we have the exact photo that was used for VOTH by Richard.

I recently bought Randy Schmidt's book Yesterday Once More and noticed toward the end of the book how Phil had wanted to originally tweek and re-mix Karen's solo album to sound more contemporary, this is what he wanted to do before releasing it after all these years later but then opted to leave it the way Karen approved it. I often wonder what the songs could have sounded like remixed for "contemporary sound"? Could they have sounded that much different than what we have today? I'd like to have heard both, sorta like Richard remixing the Carpenters songs, I love the originals and prefer them but I like hearing how Richard remixed it and his comments, Treasures Japan 2 CD set is a favorite of mine and remixes he has done. So it would have been the same w/ Phil Ramone, I'd much prefer Karen's original songs from her solo album but I also would like to hear the remixes that Phil could have done. Interesting stuff.

 

[toeknee4bz]

Hey, does anybody out there know exactly which CDs have the remixes? I already have all of the originals (not meaning to brag... really) but would like to hear some fresh nuances to the old songs w/o buying a bunch of carbon copies. Obviously it would be a disappointment to sift through it just for maybe 1 or 2 remixes.

 

[Harry]

Virtually any compilation album of recent vintage will be full of remixes, the tan colored YESTERDAY ONCE MORE, the 2-CD GOLD compilation, the budget-priced Millennium set, and CARPENTERS PERFORM CARPENTER all contain modern remixes. If you can still find it, the SACD of SINGLES 1969-1981 has the most recent crop of remixes that Richard did for that hybrid format.

All of those are hit compilations, and Chris above speaks about TREASURES, a 2-disc set compiled for Japan in the late '80s. where Richard remixed a bunch of album tracks that weren't hits. It makes a good companion set to any of the hits packages in the remix realm.

Harry

 

[toeknee4bz]

Thanks,

Tony

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I don't mean to be arbitrary but I wish RC would just leave well enough alone. In 1985 when he started doing this, his remixes were interesting. However, as time has gone on, it turns out to have been a harbinger of a practice that's still going on today. His need to "tinker" has made it difficult for new fans to find the original mixes. The tinkering has also become far less interesting than it used to be. What he did to "It's Going To Take Some Time" on the SACD is essentially the nadir of his remixing. I'm hoping he'll stop doing it now and readjust his focus on preserving the Carpenters legacy as Karen knew and approved it.

Ed

 

[aaflyer98]

Sorry, Ed, but I disagree, respectfully. I like the remixes as well as originals and hearing the different mixes is the closest thing we are ever going to get to "new" tracks. And I think, were Karen here, she'd approve of the remixes... and I believe, although I could be wrong, that Richard had final approval over the mixes even when Karen was alive.I'm happy just to have something different.

 

[Harry]

Karen was just as picky as Richard. Let's not forget that it was she that suggested that they re-do "Ticket To Ride", and she wanted to re-do "Merry Christmas, Darling".

I think had she been around all this time, there would be a long list of things that Karen might have wanted to revisit.

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

In this "what would Karen have wanted" vein, here's something I've always wondered about. At the end of "A Song For You," both in the the leadoff track and the reprise, when she sings "And when my life is over," she sort of slurs the word "is," making it sound like ""when my life ithover." If I was her I would have wanted to fix that...OR, maybe they wanted it that way for some reason (to sound jazzy, maybe?) This is just one of those things I wonder about when I hear the song. I love the song, it's one of my favorite tracks on my favorite Carpenters album.

 

[Harry]

[Moderator note: The balance of this thread has been split off into a new thread called "Karen's Solo album - double?"]

http://forum.amcorner.com/viewtopic.php?p=78065

Continue the discussion of the lack of Carpenters on the radio in this thread.

 

[Dave]

...I wonder if the title of this thread could be changed to reflect what this thread is really all about since we kinda went off topic but stayed on topic of Carpenters... ..."Why don't we hear" seems sooooo vague and doesn't give the reader or viewer any idea about what's inside the thread...

Well, here's an ideal title, as quoted by...

"Lack of Carpenters on the Radio"

As for lack of Carpenters radio air-play, I guess you can at least count on Programmed Muzak Systems to deliver Carpenters hits at where you shop and eat at...

Surely whatever Oldies Radio Stations are left once they, or if they, get the requests/interests enough surely might consider or reconsider playing them once again...



Dave

 

[SakuraSYayoi]

I re-post this part that I post to original "why don't we hear ..".

"why don't we hear ... "
Partly because we don't send requests.

I posted

I heard "Goodbye To Love" on Thursday before Feb. 4th and "Close to You" on the next Thursday, both on NHK FM. I forgot to turn on the radio to find if the DJ played something for Karen's birthday.

Sakura

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8883

I sent requests to the program. Other fans sent requests, so DJ played Carpenters songs!!

NHK-FM aired 6 hours and a half program with Richard on phone before. The DJ hosted and Yuka was there. Too bad that call connection was bad.

lfx radio/TV aired 3 hours Carpenters program at least twice, different ones. Some of you must have heard the program or visited their website.

XM Radio aired 11 hour program with Richard!!?

Radio 6(?) aired interview with Richard, and this forum member asked Herb Alpert about Carpenters!!

How about Pat Marino? He played the Carpenters songs that we hardly hear on the radio. I think he said something like this, he received request of Carpenters, when he doesn't play Carpenters.

How about Big L? They interviewed Richard.
I sent requests of Carpenters songs, Barry Manilow and Olivia Newton-John. They played all of them!!

BBC Radio 2 aired 4 part or 2 part programs.... about Carpenters or Karen.

When I knew that BBC accept the documentary requests. I'd like to listen to 4 part program in early 2000 again. But fans sent requests of Karen's 2 part programs. I asked fans to vote for the documentary. And BBC repeated the documentary!!!

At Karen's birthday of this month, I heard 3 hour program for Carpenters at error FM!! The DJ played Carpenters songs, Karen's solo songs and some Carpenters covers. That's was great!!

Dutch national radio, RADIO 2 had Carpenters Day!! They played a couple of Carpenters songs every hour. I enjoyed the station with this forum member before.

Error FM and Dutch radio had picture of Carpenters at their website.

Error FM doesn't usually play Carpenters. As Karen's birthday special!! On the day the DJ opened chat room and accept request from fans!!

We may ought to send requests to the radio stations that have aired Carpenters or similar music.

Sakura

Maybe this Monday, KEZK (St. Louis ?) and
this week, KMBZ will play similar music,
last week I heard that KQRC (Kansas City ?) would play similar music.

www.kezk.com

www.kmbz.com

www.989therock.com

Sakura

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Karen was just as picky as Richard. Let's not forget that it was she that suggested that they re-do "Ticket To Ride", and she wanted to re-do "Merry Christmas, Darling".
I think had she been around all this time, there would be a long list of things that Karen might have wanted to revisit.
Harry

Yes I agree here, Karen was just as particular as Richard, I don't know if it was Karen's decision or Richard but I love the whole idea of the MMM Medley and Karen's new reading of the re-record of Someday, I think even the From the Top Box Set liner notes say that Karen was particularly happy to be re-recording at least part of "Someday" as she was never really happy with the 69 recording. Here I whole-heartly agree, Karen had a good ear and she was spot on for this track. It breaks my heart to know that we only have a partial of this re-record of which I feel is just a fabulous track. The re-record is 100 x's better than the original. I think with fans urging Karen would have re-recorded this full track to appear on future Carpenters album had Karen lived.

 

[Jeff]

I still think DANCE IN THE OLD FASHIONED WAY should surface along with unreleased solo efforts and the MAKE ME LAUGH from the DOROTHY HAMILL SPECIAL. GOOD VIBES/C. RYE. Some of the Christmas stuff still vaulted. Albeit K. McNichol's performance in tow could be excrutiating. The medley from MAKE YOUR OWN KIND OF MUSIC that's been spliced together could be refined into something of a Bach/David thing. This material would be much like AS TIME GOES BY and probably not market friendly yet Billie Holiday,Judy, Elvis and a host of others continue to release each and every scrap. True some solo tracks are pretty raw however some are nearly ready for release with a little tlc. So, what's the deal with the John Denver duet "rights" thing? Seems to me the recording could be beneficial to John's catalog as well. I understand money has been mentioned as an issue but c'mon people now smile on your brotha.

Jeff

 

[newvillefan]

The medley from MAKE YOUR OWN KIND OF MUSIC that's been spliced together could be refined into something of a Bach/David thing.

Excellent idea, but the problem is, Karen sang this live in the studio whilst it was being filmed didn't she? This means that the applause that drowned her out every time they moved on to a new song in the medley, is probably locked into the recording. In these early days I don't think they went in and did studio recordings to their television special stuff, and especially not this one, because it wasn't their TV special!

I think that's the reason why the Superstar/Rainy Days medley from As Time Goes By doesn't feature Karen's acapella opening (where she draws a heart on the window) - because of the studio applause over it, that Richard couldn't remove.

It's a shame because she sang some amazing choices of Bacharach/David catalogue for these segments

 

[Jeff]

Okay, why don't we hear the "other" version of CLOSE TO YOU? I was reading in a book that quoted Richard saying that two versions had in fact been recorded. I've also heard that the idea to not release this is due in part to Karen's wishes etc...Well, the same was said about RAINBOW CONNECTION and others. This book at Border's also named the arranger of the second CLOS2U . I'll have to revisit to post his name correctly. Any info on this version? What we need is a one on one with the late Jack Daugherty.

Jeff

 

[newvillefan]

I was talking about the 1976 Medley in my post. What you're referring to is the legendary 2 outtakes of 'Close To You' from 1970. Richard would have released these by now if he thought they were worth releasing. Obviously not, as takes 1 and 2 failed to make the two box sets.

Hal Blaine would be a better bet

 

[Mike Blakesley]

That must mean the takes with Karen on drums, where Herb Alpert said they needed a tougher sound and brought in the Wrecking Crew people. Yes, Hal Blaine would be able to provide that info!

 

[goodjeans]

After 30 years in the music industry, singer Phil Collins is finally retiring at age 57.

Collins recently completed a reunion tour with his former band, Genesis.

Friday he announced he will no longer be releasing any more albums or going on tours.

...www.perezhilton.com

hmmmm...maybe now they will replace with Carpenters on the radio. Wishful thinking.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Always take music biz "retirement" notices with a grain of salt. Those guys miss the applause and the fun of performing and always wind up going back on the road and recording again. Elton John being a good example...he's "retired" several times. I remember when he did a "farewell" tour in the mid '80s, and released his "last" album sometime in the early '90s. Result: We saw him on tour five months ago and I really enjoyed his most recent CD, from Sept. 2006.

 

[goodjeans]

Always take music biz "retirement" notices with a grain of salt.

you know what, you are right and that is a good point. I think that I went to three of cher's farewell tours come to think of it.

 

[goodjeans]

last evening was awesome... I heard 'Top Of The World' at the Pet Store, 'If I Had You' at the grocery store and 'Superstar' on my truck radio on the way home. My neighbor, who hated the Carpenters in the 70's is now a staunch supporter and thinks that the 'image' was the biggest handicap in their career. She was doing errand swith me last evening and nbow thinks that I have Carpenter related powers. Not that anyone asked, but, there it is.

 

[newvillefan]

heard 'If I Had You' at the grocery store

Wow, that's an unusual one to hear!