Why no "ASSOCIATE PRODUCER" credit for Karen on MI

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ullalume

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Hello all,

The above question has always played on my mind, and I just wondered if anyone knew the answer.

On the one hand I know Richard did much selection and arranging while Karen was either A) Doing her solo stint a or B)Making preparations for her marriage. So this could have been one reason.

Or maybe it was for financial reasons. I really don't know.

From what I've read Karen was very much a part of the making of this album, from urging Rivhard to write "Because we are in love", to naming the album, to close inspection of drumming tracks.

Her influence is also present on her Drumming duties on two of the tracks. This last imput is particularly interesting to me, since on a recent BBC radio program it stated that on the solo album, she sat at Liberty Devitto's drum set and said sadly "This isn't me any more." Could it be that Karen got scared at this thought, hence ensuring she did some drumming on MIA, in effect still making herself "a drummer who sang".

Yet no "associate producer"?

Any ideas guys,


Neil
 
This brings to mind a lingering question. Pertaining to Karen's Accociate Producing specifically, what was her involvement? With Richard as producer, orchestrater, arranger, composer, it seems that Karen would have been confined to the microphone . Numerous stories abound concerning Karen's feeling "lack of control" in the studio and in general.

Allegedly, Karen's solo album was an attempt at liberation. Many debate the musical selections on this effort. Its potential chart success and so on. My impression is that these recordings had more to do with self expression than musicology.

The entire topic is bittersweet. The intricate dynamics of her life, illness and subsequent demise depict a tortured soul. With or without Richard producing it is clear that Karen's conflicts were dire.

What does this have to do with Associate Producing MIA? From what I've gathered the demands of these recording sessions were taxing at best. If she could've AP she would have. Mere speculation and pop psychology indicate that as a hapless victim of disease, production, positive motivation and personal triumph was unattainable.

It pains me to consider the despair of those closest to her. I admire the fortitude and resilience of her family.

Now that was uplifting for a Sunday morning. Just what I needed to prepare for my work day. Guess I just have a knack.

Sometimes I wonder,

Jeff
 
I have no knowledge about what duties Karen may have performed as "associate producer" on any project, but that sort of title implies very little. There are no rules about what constitutes this sort of title.

Richard may have simply asked her to listen to some of the demos and give a "yes" or "no" to them -- even that sort of minimal participation could warrent an "associate producer" credit. She might have sat in on the mixing sessions and given some input on what finished sound she liked. The title may even have been given just as an honorary sort of thing -- a way for Richard to get her a little share of the profits from the records (since she obviously wasn't getting any songwriting royalties).

This would be one of those questions to ask Richard, since he's really the only person who could answer it.

Dan
 
The recent BBC radio programme was mentioned in this thread so I will mention the one thing that came to mind after listening to that.

I remember Phil Ramone said he received a phone call personally from Richard, whilst she was in treatment in New York, saying 'please don't tell her we're going back into the studio'.

What he was referring to, was him and the musicians going back in in 1982 to work on some stuff, but this was I think a desperate line to Phil from her brother not to reveal he was working again, because they were so concerned about her, wanting her to concentrate on the programme she was undergoing, in case she pulled out to go back to work with Richard.

I think even Phil could see the desperate plight they were all in, when it came to Karen, getting her well and dealing with her stubbornness.

Very sad, to think of all the secret lengths that must have gone on behind the scenes to desperately do something to get her well again.

Stephen
 
What tracks did she play drums on for MIA? she is not credited as a drummer on the linear notes. Where did you get the info she drummed on MIA thats news to me.
 
If you check the musician credits for When You're Gone, you'll see she played drums with Larry Londin. :tongue:

Regards

Stephen
 
Interestingly, I've just been scanning the credits for the MIA sessions on the 2003 Essential Collection boxed set and for these Richard does in fact credit Karen with Associate Producer, whereas it wasn't noted on MIA.

Don't know what all this means particularly, but it's interesting, I suppose, a bit. . .to me.


Neil
 
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