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Why Not a Septet Plus One?

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Trading on the famous line, sextet plus one... When Mr. A finally formed a touring group Tijuana Brass, it didn't include a saxophone (not even the reformed TJB, or the Bullish era touring TJB had one).

Curious since he was coming off the Whipped Cream album which had almost half of the tracks with a saxophone.

Whipped Cream
Love Potion # 9
El Garbanzo
Butterball
Peanuts

Just wondering; lots more free time right now.
 

Captaindave

Well-Known Member
Herb also did not tour with the marimba which was heard on the studio recordings of many, many songs (until the 1974-1975 reorganized TJB group, and then Julius Wechter joined that group for concerts).

My opinion - strictly my opinion because I don't have any other facts to the contrary - is that the seven piece group was enough to cover the brass and rhythm aspects of the songs for the purpose of concert performances, and to the satisfaction of the audiences.

And, it gets more expensive to add more players if not absolutely necessary to present the music in concert to the satisfaction of the audience.

I heard the original Tijuana Brass in concert three times back in the 1960s. They were quite able to play any of the songs from any of the albums. If a supporting instrument that may have been included in the studio was missing, the audience didn't know the difference.

I think Herb Alpert probably decided that the seven piece group would be the Tijuana Brass, and that group was able to provide the concert sound that he wanted.
 
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abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Good points Captain. Of course the group was the Brass. Only a few appearances of a reed instrument on the albums. A soprano sax makes its way on the Christmas album on Let It Snow; Marjorine has a clarinet on Warm; Moon River on Brass Are Comin', probably in the band on Carmen and Casino Royale, but only Whipped Cream had so much prominent sax work.
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
Good points Captain. Of course the group was the Brass. Only a few appearances of a reed instrument on the albums. A soprano sax makes its way on the Christmas album on Let It Snow; Marjorine has a clarinet on Warm; Moon River on Brass Are Comin', probably in the band on Carmen and Casino Royale, but only Whipped Cream had so much prominent sax work.
Don't forget the bassoon on Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da.

Also, one reason why Julius didn't tour with the Brass back in the'60's was because he was busy with the BMB.
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
The lack of a touring marimba is the one and only reason I'm glad I didn't see the Brass back in the day. I loved the marimba on the records (and still do) and I would have been severely disappointed walking into a concert and not seeing a marimba on the stage.

From seeing a few live videos, it appears that Lou Pagani did a lot of the marimba fills on the piano on stage.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
The lack of a touring marimba is the one and only reason I'm glad I didn't see the Brass back in the day. I loved the marimba on the records (and still do) and I would have been severely disappointed walking into a concert and not seeing a marimba on the stage.

From seeing a few live videos, it appears that Lou Pagani did a lot of the marimba fills on the piano on stage.
See. They were also great at Improvising ( which is what Expert Jazz Musicians by Nature do so well) so Herb Had all the Bases covered
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Went to bed too early last night, so I had more time to think ...sax on Mexican Corn, Mexican Drummer Man, Flamingo, South of the Border...but those we're all one offs. He really had saxophones on his mind for the Whipped Cream album.
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
And now that I think of it, maybe that's why the sax solo in Bob Crewe's Music To Watch Girls By was so striking.
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
OK. So now with the new Slick, I listened to the old one (which I first heard in 1968, and 10,000 times after)

After Herb plays the melody for the last time, is that a saxophone making that skidding noise? And for that matter, is a saxophone doubling Herb on the melody ever so softly in the mix? Someone, please solve my 52 year question.
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
OK. So now with the new Slick, I listened to the old one (which I first heard in 1968, and 10,000 times after)

After Herb plays the melody for the last time, is that a saxophone making that skidding noise? And for that matter, is a saxophone doubling Herb on the melody ever so softly in the mix? Someone, please solve my 52 year question.


It is...I think it's a tenor sax.
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Thank you. I always thought it was a guitar somehow.

No other saxophone on that album (except maybe on the This Guy's In Love With You orchestra parts).

Ah, but maybe the guy who plays it doubled on flute for A Beautiful Friend. Don't know the ad hoc personnel on the session.
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
No other saxophone on that album (except maybe on the This Guy's In Love With You orchestra parts).
I have often wondered if ANY of the TJB played on "This Guy." We know that Burt Bacharach did the arrangement and orchestration. The backing track (outside of Herb's trumpet) sounds just like a typical Bacharach backing track from one of his solo albums. And we know that Pete Jolly did the electric piano intro. And, the label on the 45rpm single just says "Herb Alpert." So I kinda doubt that any members of our favorite band (besides Herb) appear on the song.

I believe the flute on "A Beautiful Friend" was contributed by Tom Scott. At least I think I read that somewhere... I know he played on several Sergio Mendes recordings and of course he was an A&M artist too, so it's definitely possible.
 

TjbBmb

Member
I have often wondered if ANY of the TJB played on "This Guy." We know that Burt Bacharach did the arrangement and orchestration. The backing track (outside of Herb's trumpet) sounds just like a typical Bacharach backing track from one of his solo albums. And we know that Pete Jolly did the electric piano intro. And, the label on the 45rpm single just says "Herb Alpert." So I kinda doubt that any members of our favorite band (besides Herb) appear on the song.

I believe the flute on "A Beautiful Friend" was contributed by Tom Scott. At least I think I read that somewhere... I know he played on several Sergio Mendes recordings and of course he was an A&M artist too, so it's definitely possible.

I’m certain that’s Nick Ceroli on This Guy’s in Love.
 

Mike Blakesley

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Staff member
Moderator
What makes you certain of that? I'm just curious, because the drums on that song sound just like any other BB ballad to me. (Burt also says on Herb's BBC special that he produced the session, wrote the orchestration, etc. but of course he certainly could have used TJB players to make the recording.)
 

TjbBmb

Member
What makes you certain of that? I'm just curious, because the drums on that song sound just like any other BB ballad to me. (Burt also says on Herb's BBC special that he produced the session, wrote the orchestration, etc. but of course he certainly could have used TJB players to make the recording.)

The cymbal sound and the way they are played are identical to other tracks that Nick has played on. Also, the drum beat with the stick click and brush sound exactly like the rest of the album and previous albums after Whipped Cream.

It’s just little stylistic things that I’m used to hearing Nick do that stand out to me. Obviously, I can’t prove this, but I feel pretty sure about my guess.

Was there ever session notes for this song available here?
 

Ruud Stuurman

New Member
Captaindave, you say: "I heard the original Tijuana Brass in concert three times back in the 1960s. They were quite able to play any of the songs from any of the albums. If a supporting instrument that may have been included in the studio was missing, the audience didn't know the difference."
Well, that's not true. I heard the original Tijuana Brass only one time, in 1969, and I will never forget that magical evening. But I heard very well the parts where instruments were missing that were on the albums. It was no problem, it remained great, but of course I heard it.
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
If a supporting instrument that may have been included in the studio was missing, the audience didn't know the difference
I heard very well the parts where instruments were missing that were on the albums. It was no problem, it remained great, but of course I heard it.
Maybe he should have said, "The audience didn't seem to mind."
 
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