Will Richard Release a 50th Anniversary Collection
- Thread starter Mark-T
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Jeff
Well-Known Member
Extensive energies have been contributed to the catalog including the three post Karen albums. My assertion is that retirement proper seems ludicrous when there is much left UNexplored offerings. Largely focus has been remix remaster reissue. Whether the CarpenterS rep or solo seems Karen has always been screaming to be heard. That's the jist. So the quest to champion Karen's wish could/should /would be complimented by Richard no question. Simple 'nough.
Jeff
Well-Known Member
Put it this way...liken a multi-Grammy winning artist to an Olympian...top of the game right? The museum, caretaker or owner of a Rembrandt, Picasso or other 'top of the game ' artists responsibility is to share the works freely. You don't say here's Michelangelo's painting of sumpin but you can't see it unveiled cuz I'm too retired to lift said veil.
No offense to anyone here, or in the other various online Carpenters-related forums, but when exactly did Karen come back from the dead and tell people she wanted this-and-that released?! I think we do WAY too much in the way of speculation with Karen's wishes and concerns; the "shoulda-woulda-coulda" stuff. Regardless of what's been documented about that family one way or the other, right or wrong, as well as Karen's struggles, no one here really knows what Karen *truly* would have wanted.
Jeff
Well-Known Member
No offense taken but the AHA for me is no one knows what Karen didn't want either. Devil's advocate folks. Different take/slant whathaveyou. Consider for what it's worth or not. Not meaning to ruffle RC feathers of dear devotees. A simple attempt to round a discussion however unwelcome upsetting the apple cart.
Jeff
Jeff
Chris Mills
That was funny....like the dark vomited up
I think some of us are secretly hoping that Richard is reading and taking note of what is written on this forum. Yes it would be incredible to have Richard grant us our wishes and release everything for the 50th.........the TV specials on DVD and all the songs in the vaults, Karen's solo demos, outtakes, you name it, we crave it. Truth is, Richard is not watching this forum, wish he was, but just in case he is, please think again about retiring!
Chris Mills
That was funny....like the dark vomited up
Whatever is written by members of this forum wether it's *for* or *against*, just goes to show how passionate we are about Carpenters.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Remember the NPR audio interview from 2009 by Terry Gross? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120760959
Richard Carpenter remained such an intelligent professional during that interview. He is a genius.
My suspicion is that he has read and heard considerably less adulatory opinions elsewhere.
Remember, too, the untold, unreported, millions he has given away in philanthropic ventures.
And, to end, a few chronological quotations:
"...I'm gonna be a musician forever." Richard Carpenter (Coleman,Untold, 1994, p.225 quoted from 1976 )
"..I gotta sing, I love that crowd." Karen Carpenter (Coleman quoted from 1976- ibid.)
"..It's nice that the interest in the Carpenters has not subsided." Richard Carpenter (Schmidt,YOM,2012,p.319, Rev. ed'n, from 1998 Interview )
"..or..just in case,... the 50th.." Richard Carpenter (Huffington Post Interview,2009)
"..all done." Richard Carpenter (2014 Interview with Chris May)
Richard Carpenter remained such an intelligent professional during that interview. He is a genius.
My suspicion is that he has read and heard considerably less adulatory opinions elsewhere.
Remember, too, the untold, unreported, millions he has given away in philanthropic ventures.
And, to end, a few chronological quotations:
"...I'm gonna be a musician forever." Richard Carpenter (Coleman,Untold, 1994, p.225 quoted from 1976 )
"..I gotta sing, I love that crowd." Karen Carpenter (Coleman quoted from 1976- ibid.)
"..It's nice that the interest in the Carpenters has not subsided." Richard Carpenter (Schmidt,YOM,2012,p.319, Rev. ed'n, from 1998 Interview )
"..or..just in case,... the 50th.." Richard Carpenter (Huffington Post Interview,2009)
"..all done." Richard Carpenter (2014 Interview with Chris May)
Not exactly. There is no obligation on anyone's part to release every scrap of tape just because a few uber-fans demand it.
There are probably dozens of instances in the tapes of Karen hiccuping, missing a note, coughing, misreading a word, phrasing something wrong, laughing, talking, sneezing or what-have-you. If you were her, would you want that kind of stuff out in public? I sure wouldn't. Richard has released what he has deemed releasable, has said he's released everything that's worth releasing, and he's "all done." Who are we as fans to "DEMAND" that other scraps be released?
As for the bootleg thing. I don't mind people sharing things that aren't otherwise available to purchase, especially when it's just record company politics or inattention driving the unavailability (such as with Sergio Mendes' Horizonte Aberto). When it comes to legitimately available material it's never right, no matter how many millions of dollars have been realized by sales over the years. I'd agree with Chris, the losses from people copying, trading and sharing has probably been in the multi-millions. Does Richard "need" that money? No. But that doesn't matter. Bill Gates doesn't need any more money either but do you think it'd be right to pick his pocket?
Not that all of those song theives WOULD have ever bought the tracks, but they still got the value from them. It's stealing, pure and simple. Just because you didn't walk out of a store carrying something doesn't mean it's not theft.
Chris Mills
That was funny....like the dark vomited up
At the end of the day, if Richard is "all done", there's no way that statement can stop us from celebrating 50 years of Carpenters in whatever way we might choose!
LOL I have to admit I chuckled a little...and great post...Hahaha! Well I've met a lot of people who have lost those they've cherished to the enth degree, and none have I met that ever did anything CLOSE to what Richard has in terms of carrying on his sister's legacy. So...with that, I'll close
Good point, Chris, and I agree with you. But let's keep in mind that those other people who have lost cherished ones didn't lose their sister, who happened to be Karen Carpenter!
GARY-I haven't been offended by any of your posts,I'm just trying to gently "guide" some of these threads in the right direction. You're a valued member of this forum-and your posts have been very interesting and informative.
As far as the topic at hand-it doesn't serve any purpose thinking about a release that might happen in five or six years.When the 50th anniversary rolls around,and Richard wishes to commemorate the occasion,he will assemble a compilation at that point.But,it's only going to be a variation of the anthologies that are already available now-and there are three double-discs sets currently on the market.
For the record,Richard assembled Interpretations(the 25th anniversary comp) only four months before it was released.He doesn't need alot of time to put a compilation together.
Excellent point,MissK.
Karen would've had no legacy without Richard-and Richard(with some help from Billy May,Nelson Riddle and Peter Knight) made Karen legendary.
Good point,Chris.
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
Jeff! Don't go! You are absolutely right and you are the biggest KC supporter and I'm with ya! We all know Richard has changed his mind over the years so we know that could happen again. {"Rainbow Connection will never be released. Karen would come down and get me" "Karen's solo album will never be released" "I'm not working on anything at the present time." Shm-cd's released."
You, Jeff, represent Karen and her voice and the fans desire to hear more. Music. From Karen. Like you said about art, its something we all want to hear. Whether we do or not, regardless of what Richard (or anyone here on this forum, including me and you) says remains to be seen. WE HAVE HOPE! and that's what it's about. THAT's what keeps Karen's legacy alive. Fans like us, all of us, who are so adamant about our love for Karen (solo) and Carpenters that we can't stop talking about it and wanting more, or shut the farm down. If we didn't have hope, I think this forum itself would have run dry many years ago.
As true Carpenters fans we have earned the right to be vocal, always have been, even in the 70's and 80's!
A moderator recently posted all of the albums that RC has worked on since Karen left. WOW, that is a lot. And a lot of the same songs repeatedly and remixed and in original forms, ALL of which I am grateful for. You know what that took from us? You know what Richard gets? M O N E Y. So yes, Richard does get a $$ payoff from the fans, even if it does burn him and he feels burnt out. Sorry for that Richard your legacy of good music, and the fact you hold the keys to KC's too keeps us wanting more and what's left.
Don't GO!!!
You, Jeff, represent Karen and her voice and the fans desire to hear more. Music. From Karen. Like you said about art, its something we all want to hear. Whether we do or not, regardless of what Richard (or anyone here on this forum, including me and you) says remains to be seen. WE HAVE HOPE! and that's what it's about. THAT's what keeps Karen's legacy alive. Fans like us, all of us, who are so adamant about our love for Karen (solo) and Carpenters that we can't stop talking about it and wanting more, or shut the farm down. If we didn't have hope, I think this forum itself would have run dry many years ago.
As true Carpenters fans we have earned the right to be vocal, always have been, even in the 70's and 80's!
A moderator recently posted all of the albums that RC has worked on since Karen left. WOW, that is a lot. And a lot of the same songs repeatedly and remixed and in original forms, ALL of which I am grateful for. You know what that took from us? You know what Richard gets? M O N E Y. So yes, Richard does get a $$ payoff from the fans, even if it does burn him and he feels burnt out. Sorry for that Richard your legacy of good music, and the fact you hold the keys to KC's too keeps us wanting more and what's left.
Don't GO!!!
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
Chris, I understand, but no disrespect to you because I admire what you do here for the forum, but when did you become a fan? I've been a fan since 1970 and it's in my blood. Through the hit years, through the dry years many of us are loyal card carrying lifers! We lived it! The only one who really knows the answer to your question: that would be Karen. Not Richard, not you not me. So for some of us long timers, it's a matter of getting everything we can, Carpenters wise and Karen Carpenter. Even if Karen were here and didn't want us to hear it (Rainbow Connection, anyone?) We'd still plead, beg, cry to have it. Say somebody was going through Ringo, John or George's garage and found an old cassette tape of Beatles recordings, incomplete, partial and some completed. Word get's out that it exists! Let's say everyone, Ringo, the wives of the deceased were onboard to release the project. Except Paul. Fans would write and beg for these to be released. And most probably it would be the old fans. The long timers that were there in the Beatles era. They lived it. It's way more important to them then those maybe who discovered the Beatles in 1980. Same basic thing, just so you know where some of us long timer Carpenters fans are coming from. We were there in the beginning. We're still here. We hear rumor there's something left, of course we want to hear it. Not so important to all. Just the diehards! Now in NO WAY am I trying to diminish in any way or knock down a fan who wasn't there from the beginning or hit years. Not at all. New fans since 1983 are part of the Carpenters' Legacy. That is an amazing thing. I'm just trying to explain how some of us lifers feel about the unreleased stuff. No, I don't want belches and burps. I'm not even going to address that. It's the music. We all know Richard holds the keys. We know his opinion. We still hope.
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I've said this before but I sure wish Richard would create (or commission) a real interactive WEBSITE where he could put up every bit of tape that's left. Then he could finally say "There it is, folks...come and get it." and really be done. It would really energize the various Carpenters forums if he would do that.
Hi
It would be nice if Richard could produce a book similiar to The Japanese mook to coincide ther 50th anniversary.This could include rare photos,recording dates of their album and singles,complete listing of worldwide charts,interviews,anedotes of their time on the road touring in the early years.Etc
It would be nice if Richard could produce a book similiar to The Japanese mook to coincide ther 50th anniversary.This could include rare photos,recording dates of their album and singles,complete listing of worldwide charts,interviews,anedotes of their time on the road touring in the early years.Etc
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Nice to read the many varied opinions expressed, each of its own merit, and,
recall this quote:
By the very act of arguing, you awake the patient's reason; and once it is awake, who can foresee the result?”
― C.S. Lewis
recall this quote:
By the very act of arguing, you awake the patient's reason; and once it is awake, who can foresee the result?”
― C.S. Lewis
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
I've tried to let this section of the above post 'simmer' and hope my attitude towards it would cool, but it hasn't. My phrasing may be more softened, but my feeling toward it is this. That is a very disrespectful comment to those of us asking for more music that we know exists. Do you really think we want the coughs, hiccups, sneezes? That's insulting. Uber-fans have been "Demanding" things for years from the Carpenters, Karen Carpenter and Richard Carpenter, even prior to the internet. MUSIC. Vocals. We know there are completed songs. It's been said and even Richard acknowledges that. So we want them. We know we may or may not get them. But since we know they exist we want to hear them. Not once have I ever said, "gee, I would love to hear Karen sneeze". Hey but now that you mention it....
I'm pretty sure that Mike was exaggerating somewhat with his sneeze comment, but I understand his sentiment. There is a sense among "uber-fans" of any entertainment entity that they want everything, and I mean everything. Look at Beatles fandom. Scraps of tape with studio chatter, flubbed lyrics, mistakes are traded back and forth and produced on endless bootlegs - and they always want MORE.
In Carpenters fandom, we're faced with knowing that a few tracks exist that Richard simply won't put out for one reason or another.The solo demos are probably a sore spot with him - first, he had nothing to do with their recording, and second, they've all been leaked in pretty decent quality without his permission. Other imperfect tracks are likely being withheld because Richard and Karen were(are) both perfectionists. To him, the thought of putting out something that;s not pristine and perfect is just not in the cards. It's not in his nature. It's the same with ABBA. Benny & Bjorn just won't part with some of the stuff that is known to exist. But it doesn't stop fans for clamoring for more.
That's not to say that at some appropriate time, like an anniversary edition, that Richard won't relent and come forth with something else for the fans. I believe that is likely at some point in time, perhaps a 50th anniversary.
But even when he does, I just *know* that some Carpenters fans will still be asking for more. It's the nature of the beast.
Harry
No disrespect intended -- although I'm sure there ARE people out there who would like to hear every last thing Karen ever recorded, imperfections and all.
But they're not just Karen's records...they're Richard's too. Think about every project you've ever done in your own life. Would you want your friends (fans) to see and critique your projects that were unfinished, or done improperly or fouled up in some way? I wouldn't, and I've got plenty of things I've worked on that wound up on the "cutting room floor" of my office. If Richard was to put out an "album" and call it "The Imperfect Carpenters Recordings" or whatever, it'd probably be a huge embarrassment to him. He's released everything that he deems releasable and as much as I'd like to hear new Carpenters recordings, I'm willing to take him at his word.
Here's a story that Carpenters fans might be able to appreciate: I'm a fan of the Alan Parsons Project. For years, APP fans buzzed and speculated about an album called "The Sicilian Defence," an album that Alan Parsons and his musical partner Eric Woolfson delivered to Arista Records in 1978 when they were demanding "new material NOW!" without waiting for the artistic process to work properly. They put the album together in a big hurry, knowing it would be rejected by the company, and hoping it would help them to realize that you can't force creativity and that the next album would be ready when it was ready, and not before.
Well of course "fandom" found out about that album, and immediately started clamoring for its release. Alan Parsons claimed, in many interviews, that the album was "terrible, not up to our standards, and not worth releasing" and had only been made as a stunt, and he said over and over that it would never be released if he had anything to say about it, and that he hoped the tapes had been erased. Yet fans kept hammering and hammering for this terrible album to be released because "It just can't be THAT BAD. After all, it's Alan Parsons!!"
In 2013 Arista decided to put together a "complete collection" box set of all of the APP albums, and wanted something special to include with the collection. Parsons finally relented and decided to let the "Sicilian Defence" album be included, since fans wanted it so badly -- and it would then make the box set a "complete" collection of all the albums recorded by the Project. I'm just as big a fan as the next guy, so I ordered the set and listened to the album, and ... Parsons was right, it is terrible. One of the worst albums in my collection, in fact. None of the usual amazing production and quality you would expect from an Alan Parsons Project album. I played it once and will probably never listen to it again.
So when it comes to releases of cutting-room-floor material, I'm willing to listen to the "owner" of the work involved. Richard Carpenter says he's all done releasing Carpenters material and ... well that's good enough for me.
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