Will Richard Release a 50th Anniversary Collection

Harry said:
I'm pretty sure that Mike was exaggerating somewhat with his sneeze comment, but I understand his sentiment. There is a sense among "uber-fans" of any entertainment entity that they want everything, and I mean everything. Look at Beatles fandom. Scraps of tape with studio chatter, flubbed lyrics, mistakes are traded back and forth and produced on endless bootlegs - and they always want MORE.

In Carpenters fandom, we're faced with knowing that a few tracks exist that Richard simply won't put out for one reason or another.The solo demos are probably a sore spot with him - first, he had nothing to do with their recording, and second, they've all been leaked in pretty decent quality without his permission. Other imperfect tracks are likely being withheld because Richard and Karen were(are) both perfectionists. To him, the thought of putting out something that;s not pristine and perfect is just not in the cards. It's not in his nature. It's the same with ABBA. Benny & Bjorn just won't part with some of the stuff that is known to exist. But it doesn't stop fans for clamoring for more.

That's not to say that at some appropriate time, like an anniversary edition, that Richard won't relent and come forth with something else for the fans. I believe that is likely at some point in time, perhaps a 50th anniversary.

But even when he does, I just *know* that some Carpenters fans will still be asking for more. It's the nature of the beast.

Harry
Click to expand...
<<<<That's not to say that at some appropriate time, like an anniversary edition, that Richard won't relent and come forth with something else for the fans. I believe that is likely at some point in time, perhaps a 50th anniversary.>>>>>


That's what I'm holding out some hope for.... Truth be told, I didn't absolutely LOVE everything that WAS released. I've commented many times about Goofus and a very few others.. And in all honesty, I was a bit hesitant to listen to any of the you tube stuff from Karen's solo recordings, because we all knew SHE picked the cuts that made the final album...

Yet, I suppose, like many, I was still hoping - for another time or two - to hear just one more "Rainbow Connection" or a "Leave Yesterday Behind" or even a "You're The One".... I happen to really like the songs The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and also All My Life... (Not too keen on Try To Win a Friend)... so naturally, I do and will always hope that Richard reconsiders at the 45th, 46th, 47th, 51st, or 53rd Anniversaries. Until then - I love what we have - & will hope for another hidden gem or two to grace my ears before the end of my journey.

In the meantime, what a rich legacy of beautiful recordings we have to cherish.

What a simply marvelous vocalist we had in Karen. And what a stunning arranger and performer we had in Richard.

And as my opinion post closes, I'll give a resounding "Thank you for the Music" to Richard - JIC he does read this site! (And for the record, I didn't love that one so much either - but I love the sentiment!!!) :)

'night, Y'all!
 
Everyone is providing wonderful commentary in support of this, or that.
Not much I can contribute that is new, as all bases are amply covered.
Let me add that, in my opinion, it seems terribly difficult to believe that any (completed vocal) recordings
that may still exist (Thank You For The Music, All My Life, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Dancing in the Street,etc....?)
could be "bad". Seems to me that, if there had been a "bad" vocal recording by Karen, Richard would have immediately
discarded it, or would have done a re-take. (At least, the above titles appear to be already good material.)
But, if the song is "that" bad, why do a re-take anyway--destroy it and move on.
Carpenters will always be remembered for those classic 22 hits ("22 hits of the Carpenters"), if nothing else.
Of course, those hits barely scratch the surface of all of the great recordings.
And, I , for one, have cherished everything that Richard has given the fans. There may be "less than stellar" material on some albums,
either in Richard's mind, or the listeners' ear, but nothing I have yet heard (with Karen on vocals) need ever be completely dismissed out of hand.
Thus, I would be deeply saddened if, indeed, entire songs exist with Karen's vocals and those songs were kept "in the can".
Of course, I respect Richard Carpenter's decision. He has already gone far beyond what I ever anticipated.
Karen Carpenter, however, possessed such a unique and remarkable voice that humanity is surely the poorer
if the extant material never sees the light of day. Whatever remains musically, if anything, could never detract from that which
we already possess. (I , for one, imagine a buoyant Karen in the recording studio having great fun with her solo material--and,
whether, or not, the songs themselves are "great" is immaterial, it is still Karen Carpenter's interpretation).
Remember the oft-quoted remark (in the 70s) that "Karen could sing the phone-book and make it a hit " ?
Well, the phone-book is not a very good song, but the point was, and still is,
that it would be Karen Carpenter singing it, thus, making it all worthwhile.

Sorry, I rambled on a bit!
 
I have a follow-up question and a final thought regarding new material...

First, many have mentioned that Now was the final recording from Karen. But I have never read that Richard ever validated that as fact. I had always heard there were four songs recorded at that session.. You're the one, Now, and ______ and ______.
So - I am curious - do we really know the last song Karen recorded? Or the others done that April session?

Richard, may very well have finished this work - and might plan to release it one of these fine days - as a final post script to he and his sister's legacy.

Secondly, and perhaps not as critical, do we know when All My Life or Moon were recorded? I love love love 'moon', and would sell a room out of my house to hear it, however, All My Life - sounds like a beautiful swan song, if there were one final newbie ever released on a 50th. I know - - a fantasy at this point... but what a bittersweet melody and lovely sentiment to send us out with - if there was one final new release...
 
BarryT60 said:
I have a follow-up question and a final thought regarding new material...

First, many have mentioned that Now was the final recording from Karen. But I have never read that Richard ever validated that as fact. I had always heard there were four songs recorded at that session.. You're the one, Now, and ______ and ______.
So - I am curious - do we really know the last song Karen recorded? Or the others done that April session?

Richard, may very well have finished this work - and might plan to release it one of these fine days - as a final post script to he and his sister's legacy.

Secondly, and perhaps not as critical, do we know when All My Life or Moon were recorded? I love love love 'moon', and would sell a room out of my house to hear it, however, All My Life - sounds like a beautiful swan song, if there were one final newbie ever released on a 50th. I know - - a fantasy at this point... but what a bittersweet melody and lovely sentiment to send us out with - if there was one final new release...
Click to expand...

All My Life was recorded during the Made In America sessions, recorded between June '80 and Nov '80.

With regards to "Now", I think Richard's always said it was from her "last recording session". . .rather than "the last song she recorded", but I'm away from all my cds etc. so don't know for sure. I know she was back in LA for 2 weeks, but don't know how many days they would have been in the recording studio. . . and for how many hours, for that matter. When Richard uses the term "last recording session" would he be lumping the entire, for example, 4 day period into 1 session. Or would he just be referring to that last 3/4 hours they ever spent recording in the studio together. Who knows. I'm guessing he just means that they cut You're Enough and Now in April of '82, and Now was recorded second.

Thinking about it, You're Enough is not a work lead, but a finished vocal take from Karen (is it even doubled in some parts?). So presumably they took quite a while on this song, then Now, just a work lead, may have been recorded just before she flew back to NY so Richard could work his magic and she could record a new lead later.

Never 2 know. I do wish he'd write a little song by song book. He's actually a perfectly decent writer with some pithy comments along the way. We get it, no more dilution of the legacy, but to shine new lights on the existing repertoire. . . .?
 
ullalume said:
Thinking about it, You're Enough is not a work lead, but a finished vocal take from Karen (is it even doubled in some parts?). So presumably they took quite a while on this song, then Now, just a work lead, may have been recorded just before she flew back to NY so Richard could work his magic and she could record a new lead later.
Click to expand...

Actually it is a work-lead. The "doubled" sound you hear is in reality a chorus effect done during the mix-down to give it a similar effect, like what you hear on the choruses of Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore & Prime Time Love. This can actually be heard on later remixes of Calling Occupants as well. Joe [Osborn] mentioned to me that some of the other stuff they worked on ended up being duds and not really all that exciting.
 
Chris May said:
Actually it is a work-lead. The "doubled" sound you hear is in reality a chorus effect done during the mix-down to give it a similar effect, like what you hear on the choruses of Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore & Prime Time Love. This can actually be heard on later remixes of Calling Occupants as well. Joe [Osborn] mentioned to me that some of the other stuff they worked on ended up being duds and not really all that exciting.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Chris. Wow, she really put her all into that take. Just to be sure, this chorus effect would be kicking in where she beings to sing "can't you see, in these eyes that adore you. . . "
 
ullalume said:
Just to be sure, this chorus effect would be kicking in where she beings to sing "can't you see, in these eyes that adore you. . . "
Click to expand...

Exactly! Only one Karen, but the effect gives the listener the perception that there are two... :wink:
 
ullalume said:
Thanks, Chris. Wow, she really put her all into that take. Just to be sure, this chorus effect would be kicking in where she beings to sing "can't you see, in these eyes that adore you. . . "
Click to expand...

He used the same effect on the choruses of 'Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again' - 'could you help me rediscover/the way to re-be his lover'. (Always thought that was a terrible lyrics, the grammar is awful).
 
Some Fan Club Information:
According to Fan Club Newsletter #82, November 1984:
Q: What was the last song Karen recorded, and when was this done?
A: "Now" in 1982.
Previous Newsletter states that four songs: Two Lives, Make Believe, At the End of A Song, Your Baby Doesn't Love
You Anymore, were recorded during the MIA Sessions.
And, Karen had heard Look To Your Dreams in Completed form,one of her favorites.
 
ullalume said:
All My Life was recorded during the Made In America sessions, recorded between June '80 and Nov '80.

With regards to "Now", I think Richard's always said it was from her "last recording session". . .rather than "the last song she recorded", but I'm away from all my cds etc. so don't know for sure. I know she was back in LA for 2 weeks, but don't know how many days they would have been in the recording studio. . . and for how many hours, for that matter. When Richard uses the term "last recording session" would he be lumping the entire, for example, 4 day period into 1 session. Or would he just be referring to that last 3/4 hours they ever spent recording in the studio together. Who knows. I'm guessing he just means that they cut You're Enough and Now in April of '82, and Now was recorded second.

Thinking about it, You're Enough is not a work lead, but a finished vocal take from Karen (is it even doubled in some parts?). So presumably they took quite a while on this song, then Now, just a work lead, may have been recorded just before she flew back to NY so Richard could work his magic and she could record a new lead later.

Never 2 know. I do wish he'd write a little song by song book. He's actually a perfectly decent writer with some pithy comments along the way. We get it, no more dilution of the legacy, but to shine new lights on the existing repertoire. . . .?
Click to expand...
A fan asked Richard in one of the newsletters what song was actually the LAST RECORDED in 1982, and Richard said the last song Karen performed was indeed 'Now'.
 
GaryAlan said:
Everyone is providing wonderful commentary in support of this, or that.
Not much I can contribute that is new, as all bases are amply covered.
Let me add that, in my opinion, it seems terribly difficult to believe that any (completed vocal) recordings
that may still exist (Thank You For The Music, All My Life, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Dancing in the Street,etc....?)
could be "bad". Seems to me that, if there had been a "bad" vocal recording by Karen, Richard would have immediately
discarded it, or would have done a re-take. (At least, the above titles appear to be already good material.)
But, if the song is "that" bad, why do a re-take anyway--destroy it and move on.
Carpenters will always be remembered for those classic 22 hits ("22 hits of the Carpenters"), if nothing else.
Of course, those hits barely scratch the surface of all of the great recordings.
And, I , for one, have cherished everything that Richard has given the fans. There may be "less than stellar" material on some albums,
either in Richard's mind, or the listeners' ear, but nothing I have yet heard (with Karen on vocals) need ever be completely dismissed out of hand.
Thus, I would be deeply saddened if, indeed, entire songs exist with Karen's vocals and those songs were kept "in the can".
Of course, I respect Richard Carpenter's decision. He has already gone far beyond what I ever anticipated.
Karen Carpenter, however, possessed such a unique and remarkable voice that humanity is surely the poorer
if the extant material never sees the light of day. Whatever remains musically, if anything, could never detract from that which
we already possess. (I , for one, imagine a buoyant Karen in the recording studio having great fun with her solo material--and,
whether, or not, the songs themselves are "great" is immaterial, it is still Karen Carpenter's interpretation).
Remember the oft-quoted remark (in the 70s) that "Karen could sing the phone-book and make it a hit " ?
Well, the phone-book is not a very good song, but the point was, and still is,
that it would be Karen Carpenter singing it, thus, making it all worthwhile.

Sorry, I rambled on a bit!
Click to expand...

An unreleased track isn't kept in the vault because the recording or vocal is necessarily "bad"-it's just due to the fact that Richard isn't happy with it & changed his mind about that particular track after it was recorded.

There's a finished outtake from the tan album-"Don't Leave Me" that Richard has never released simply because it doesn't fit the Carpenters style. It's the type of track that might have been well-suited for another artist.

Richard has also kept some tracks in the vault because they subsequently became big hits for other 70's artists:"I Don't Need You","Thank You For The Music", "Real Love",etc.

And,Some tracks have been kept in the vault because they don't have a finished vocal or contain some type of flaws.
 
BarryT60 said:
<<<<That's not to say that at some appropriate time, like an anniversary edition, that Richard won't relent and come forth with something else for the fans. I believe that is likely at some point in time, perhaps a 50th anniversary.>>>>>


That's what I'm holding out some hope for.... Truth be told, I didn't absolutely LOVE everything that WAS released. I've commented many times about Goofus and a very few others.. And in all honesty, I was a bit hesitant to listen to any of the you tube stuff from Karen's solo recordings, because we all knew SHE picked the cuts that made the final album...

Yet, I suppose, like many, I was still hoping - for another time or two - to hear just one more "Rainbow Connection" or a "Leave Yesterday Behind" or even a "You're The One".... I happen to really like the songs The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and also All My Life... (Not too keen on Try To Win a Friend)... so naturally, I do and will always hope that Richard reconsiders at the 45th, 46th, 47th, 51st, or 53rd Anniversaries. Until then - I love what we have - & will hope for another hidden gem or two to grace my ears before the end of my journey.

In the meantime, what a rich legacy of beautiful recordings we have to cherish.

What a simply marvelous vocalist we had in Karen. And what a stunning arranger and performer we had in Richard.

And as my opinion post closes, I'll give a resounding "Thank you for the Music" to Richard - JIC he does read this site! (And for the record, I didn't love that one so much either - but I love the sentiment!!!) :)

'night, Y'all!
Click to expand...

The appropriate time for releasing any outtakes was years ago.And, I do believe Richard's declaration of "all done" in the January interview is his final word on the subject.People just have to learn to take "no" for an answer.

Incidentally,no outtakes were issued on the 40th anniversary package(40/40).
 
The infamous Mook, on pp.77-79 provides annotations, along with the list, of "songs carpenters are supposed to have recorded".
Indeed, I do count the song "Don't Leave Me" among them. It is not accompanied by a date, though--most others in
the list are dated. (The Mook, presumably legitimately authorized by Richard).
Thanks, MrJ., for providing the approximate date when that song would have been recorded.
And When He Smiles and Any Day Now should not have been kept off of the Tan Album, either.
A completed vocal by Karen, from the 1970-1972 time frame would be something to behold!
Now, honestly, I love Richard Carpenter and all of his accomplishments, and 99.9% of his arrangements !:
That being said: He has often had regrets, changes of mind, pertaining to many of their recordings;
And, I can not understand keeping a completed take from the early 1970's off of any album, for any reason.
Karen's voice is just too awesome for that to make any sense.
"It doesn't fit the Carpenters' style" ......well, some of the extant recordings answer to that justification.
I'll reiterate my viewpoint: Regardless of flaws, or perceived inadequacies, if completed recordings exist
with Karen on lead vocal, I would be shocked if Richard Carpenter decided against any ultimate release--
purely,based on the reason that it is not the Carpenters' style---Why record it to begin with, then?
The simple reason may be that Richard Carpenter has had it with the Music Industry.
You can not convince me that the UMG Fire did not affect him psychologically.
 
GaryAlan said:
The infamous Mook, on pp.77-79 provides annotations, along with the list, of "songs carpenters are supposed to have recorded" [...] (The Mook, presumably legitimately authorized by Richard).
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that Mook list wasn't authorised by Richard. It's not entirely inaccurate either, given that it was originally published way back in the 1980s. Many of the songs listed on did see the light of day on later posthumous albums. Since the list featured some key reference dates, it also provided a fascinating insight into what songs were catalogued/transferred for completion and release at certain times after her death. He was asked about the list by a fan once and I remember his reply made it clear he was pretty incensed that it was ever published, because he knew it would open the floodgates for requests from fans for more unreleased material.

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/threads/buried-treasure.6978/
 
Last edited:
Great points, Newvillefan, and I appreciate the input.
The last page (p.168) of the Mook ,adressed to "Dear Reader", gives a handwritten letter by Richard Carpenter,
which is the only reason that I had assumed some manner of authorization.
Richard Carpenter states that he spent much time researching "arcane facts" for the Mook.
In any event, how did that "List" slip through the presses?
Did Richard Carpenter not see the pre-publication release? how could this be?; he is far too meticulous.
Anyone see the Pillow on the sofa, that replicated the Carpenters Logo, from The Singles 1969-1972 LP.
 
Oops! The Pillow replicated The Singles 1969-1973 LP, of course!
Wow, how did I hit the 2 (above posting) instead of 3?
 
Oh man... I forgot about "I Don't Need You".... that one I'm sure turned out nicely.... Oh well.....

What is this I see of "Real Love"? I hadn't heard of that one before... I saw reference to a "Real Love" in Wikipedia from John Lennon... do we think that is the same song?
 
The Mook list has some innaccuracies regarding recording dates. Some of the songs list a certain year as having been the actual year the song was recorded. In fact, the listed year in a few cases represents the year it was CATALOGUED.
 
I've never heard of a Carpenters take on 'Real Love'. Can't be the Lennon version, as it was just an unreleased demo in his archives until 1988, when it appeared on the Lennon 'Imagine' movie documentary soundtrack album. In 1995, the surviving Beatles used the demo to create a completed track for the Beatles' 'Anthology' series.
 
BarryT60 said:
Oh man... I forgot about "I Don't Need You".... that one I'm sure turned out nicely.... Oh well.....

What is this I see of "Real Love"? I hadn't heard of that one before... I saw reference to a "Real Love" in Wikipedia from John Lennon... do we think that is the same song?
Click to expand...
"Real Love" was recorded in 1977 during Passage sessions-became later hit for the Doobie Brothers.
 
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