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Will Richard Release a 50th Anniversary Collection

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Mark-T, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. I was listing to his PACC album yesterday and thought, wouldn't it be great it they could put Karen singing over it. It's not impossible, Elvis and Roy Orbison have had albums made with the royal philharmonic orchestra. And that's with them having passed away decades ago. Those albums have been popular here in the UK. Anyone think a Carpenters one would be great ?
     
  2. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    Cool idea! Seems to fit with Richard's love of making medleys, too. And a potentially good way to weave in some snippets of vocals/songs that were not complete enough to be released with the other outtakes (if such exist). Don't know if there'd be a market for it, but it's an interesting thought. I'm a big fan of "Love".
     
  3. CraigGA

    CraigGA Well-Known Member

    We had had some unique treasures released in the past few years I never thought would happen. Now, all that could mean, if there is a 50th, it will blow our minds. After all, I never imagined a complete Singles or the Best Songs release, and the Christmas DVD. Sometimes, I would like the best of the remixes but I have a playlist of those mixed with the originals I prefer. But, to blow my mind: some live material never brought to light, the completed songs not yet released, maybe a private concert never before seen, the PBS special from 1974 (if there ever was an original kept), all the music of Karen and Richard from the TV Specials still not released like Dance In The Old Fashioned Way, where Karen is at her best vocally. Maybe there is enough for a Songbook Classics from the 40’s and 50’s, maybe 60’s and 70’s we don’t know about? Maybe it’s been ready for the past few years, completed before retirement? My mind just gets lost thinking of possibilities. There is also Something’s Missing and Love Making Love To You, which I could easily hear Johnny Mathis doing, so why not Karen. Maybe there are a few more pieces that were recorded for TV that were never released as When I Fall In Love was discovered in prior years. Maybe there is something left from just playing around from when they had their at home recording studio. Well, that’s enough for now. Too many maybe’s. It’s not a long wait for what really may be there. However, I am so thankful for the last few years of nuggets!
     
    Simon KC1950 likes this.
  4. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    In the case of these two tracks I’d definitely agree that they are good enough to be released (especially the latter!). However, if you listen to the 2006 podcast interview with Richard and Opal Bonfante, she asks him specifically about the solo outtakes and he’s emphatic, almost to the point of belligerence, that they will never be released. Not only does he think they’re unworthy of releasing (“they’re outtakes for a reason!”), but more importantly, he said that he believes Karen would agree with him. I know he’s changed his mind before on other things but I’m not hopeful where they’re concerned. His relationship with the whole solo episode is fraught enough without trawling over the outtakes.

    What else does that leave us? I gave this quite a bit of thought and tried to work out, by process of elimination, what could be left.

    At first I thought maybe a DVD collection of rare appearances, something similar to the recent Christmas one, but with non-Christmas selections. However, most of the decent material has already been released in one form or another (e.g. Interpretations DVD). Of the ones that are left (Dancing In The Street, Fun Fun Fun, Man Smart, Woman Smarter, Goofus etc), the footage is peppered with inane scenes from the likes of Charlie Callas and Victor Borge, so Richard couldn’t even superimpose the studio audio to get rid of the canned laughter that’s on the tapes. And without the “laughter”, those scenes wouldn’t make any sense. Much of the material from the non-Christmas specials, Make Your Own Kind Of Music and the many, many TV appearances over the years (Carol Burnett, Bob Hope etc) is too fraught with royalty hurdles to make it worth all the time and effort for Richard. In the case of Make Your Own Kind Of Music, he’s already make it clear that he never wants to go there again.

    A retrospective documentary about their career is one other possibility, but given the many that have been commissioned by BBC, ITV, PBS, VH1 etc over the years, I think it would simply be covering old ground. There’s little left to be said that hasn’t already been said and even now in 2018, many of the key protagonists from their story are no longer with us.

    One distinct possibility (in fact I’m sure a dead cert) is a 50th Anniversary retrospective CD release. Richard mentioned recently that he was sure something was planned for 2019, but I got the sense he was referring to plans by Universal, as opposed to something spearheaded by him. Given the recent court case with Universal over royalties, I’m not holding my breath. If that’s the case, we can kiss goodbye to anything unreleased, because that would require his involvement and he has said in recent interviews that he’s “all done” when it comes to any more new material. But Richard has surprised us more than once during these recent years of ‘retirement’: out of nowhere came the Christmas DVD, The Complete Singles and The Vinyl Collection, so he’s still willing to get involved for the right cause. Could there be anything else at all worthy of release? One track I always seem to come back to in particular is All My Life from the 1980 MIA sessions, which he spoke fondly of in the Mook interview and said was viable enough for possible release.

    Personally, the one thing I would love to see more than anything, is a retrospective “behind the music” DVD, something like Queen’s “Inside The Rhapsody”; a commemorative documentary which delves into the recording process, opens a door on the magic and allows us a rare glimpse into the world they inhabited to see how the music was made, with Richard opening his creative mind and offering his perspective, narrating the process from the mixing desk with an engineer and playing some of the individual tracks from the digital master tapes to show how the sound was gradually built. Now that would be really something to befit and commemorate their 50th Anniversary infinitely more than yet another “Greatest Hits” pumped out by the label.
     
    David A, ullalume and Simon KC1950 like this.
  5. Right here's what I know for sure... When Richard so kindly wrote back to me in September 2016 (after I asked if there are any plans for the 50th) he said "
    p.s there are currently no plans for the 50th. However, I am certain that there will be in the next couple of years.
    "
    he then went on to mention the vinyl box set.

    He did say "all done" but does that definitively mean goodbye, the end, no more.

    well...

    in 1989 he even immortalised in print the words "the final Carpenters album" on Lovelines. Now I didn't come along for another 11 years but that must have been hard for fans to take. Yet a couple of years later came From The Top with 20 or so previously unreleased tracks... That's the equivalent to 2 albums ! Then a couple of years later came Interpretations with 3 new tracks, soon after came Karen's Solo album followed by a new one by Richard. Think it's all over yet? No ! Then came a little snippet of For All We Know Reprise shortly followed by As Time Goes By, a full album ! I understand one day it will just stop...

    on a slightly darker and more sensitive note, when Richard does pass away, (joining Karen to continue where they left off in the studio, I have no doubt) what is going to happen to the museum and archive that is his collection??? We know he has all of the unreleased stuff particularly from the Pre Carpenters days, he has a live recording of almost every concert they did. The list goes on. Is all of that just going to sit on a shelf collecting dust? Or will his children release it i wonder?
     
  6. Rumbahbah

    Rumbahbah Well-Known Member

    I think it's quite likely that Richard was being sincere in 1989 when he said that Lovelines would be the final release - really, it was the success of 'The Karen Carpenter Story' TV movie and the resurgence of interest in their music (particularly in the UK and Japan) that then led to the release of From the Top, Interpretations and the solo album. Without the movie, I suspect we'd have seen very few of these releases actually happening.

    That said, unless there are plans to put out some previously unreleased tracks, I can't see any likelihood of commemorative releases for the 50th Anniversary as the market's pretty saturated at present. There are so many compilations out there already on CD and the LPs have all been reissued, there have been numerous boxsets in Japan... The only thing that might break the cycle of endless compilations featuring the same material is if they released the PBS Complete Singles compilation to a wider market, as that does contain some rare edits that aren't easily available elsewhere.
     
    Simon KC1950 likes this.
  7. I'm not too sure if their current popularity in the US but I know here in the UK they are doing pretty well. In 2016 "The Singles 1969-1981" re entered the charts and was certified Gold. Then there was a number of documentary dramas. Then there was the TV show "The Nations Favourite Carpenters Songs" which attracted 2.5 million viewers on It's first airing. The CD release of it charted at #2 on the UK album charts and #1 on the physical sales chart. They are always popping in and out of charts like iTunes with albums like Gold ect.
     
  8. Rumbahbah

    Rumbahbah Well-Known Member

    They do still do well here in the UK, but I think the market's pretty crowded in terms of further releases. The Nation's Favourite compilation made #2 but didn't hang around on the charts for long, chiefly because there are several other compliations (and particularly the Gold compilation) that are still easily obtainable. I suspect any new compilations featuring more of the same would meet with ever-diminishing returns sales-wise.
     
    Simon KC1950 likes this.
  9. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Well-Known Member

    It would be nice if Richard released the TV specials on DVD in their entirety. Of course it would be really nice if they were remixed into 5.1.

    Of course seeing a DVD release of the videos using the SACD mixes would also be nice, seeing as those SACD’s are hard to come by not everyone who bought them could play the 5.1 layer.

    But then there’s also Richard’s unreleased Christmas album and non-seasonal album.

    But as far as unreleased material, we saw Richard release “Christmas Alphabet” and “Make Me Laugh” on the Christmas Memories DVD, so I wonder how many more unreleased Christmas tracks are in the vault. The CM DVD was the first new Christmas release since 1984. So maybe Richard could release a Christmas album featuring a mixture Of his unreleased solo Christmas tracks and tracks like “Christmas Alphabet” and “Toyland”.
     
    Simon KC1950 likes this.
  10. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    I cannot envision what it would be the I personally am looking forward to. One thing I really would be disappointed with would be any release of live material. Like Richard, I just really dislike live tracks. I would much rather hear studio work. Make it perfect and I'll enjoy it. Sloppy live playing and singing doesn't really impress me. And we've already got several concert recordings - and they all sound the same.

    Now, if there were some live recordings of songs we do not have, then I guess I'd want to hear that - and perhaps Richard could sweeten those recordings the way he did with the old demos on AS TIME GOES BY or the live Vegas recordings that he worked on.
     
  11. David A

    David A Well-Known Member

    The recently released vinyl collection is something I'd have expected for 2019 (hopefully without all the issues), but I'm sure U wanted to make sure they caught the vinyl wave as soon as possible.

    I think @newvillefan 's analysis is, unfortunately, probably right; not much else to release, given Richard's view on any remaining material. Without Richard's involvement I don't see how anything new can emerge. That leaves us with compilations and packages of material already released in many different forms.

    Hmmmm...I would think that Richard must have a gazillion photo's and other memorabilia most have never seen. If something was released that included a large booklet or some such of a LOT of never-before seen photo's of the duo, copies of music sheets with hand-written notes on them, lyric sheets, stuff like that, it might add some value, at least for dedicated fans like most of us. Of course Richard would have to ok that; maybe he would, given that it doesn't include any music he doesn't think worthy of release.

    How possible is it, that nothing at all will be released as a 50th collection?
     
  12. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Maybe something akin to the 10th Anniversary booklet the duo sent fan club members- or better.
     
  13. Mike Blakesley

    Mike Blakesley Well-Known Member Moderator

    Here's a far fetched idea that will never happen but it's cool to think about:

    Since many of the albums have gone out of print again, how about releasing each album in a "hardcover book" type package, with maybe 20-30 pages of notes, memories, interviews, pictures, lyrics, etc from the people involved in the album. Some material could be from archival sources. Then there could be two CDs -- one with the album itself, the other with outtakes, demos, remixes, versions of the songs from TV shows, commercials, and so on. If the packages were larger than a standard CD package -- say, the size of a standard hardcover book -- the collection would make a nice bookshelf item.

    A collection like this could be sold via infomercial and website, and could run as a subscription, where you get each album a month or two apart. And, the CDs could also be packaged in standard packing to get them back out in the marketplace once again for the more mainstream consumer.

    I would sign up for something like that.

    I do think that Richard is into retirement enough that something this ambitious is not likely to happen, but you'd think they'd want to do something special to mark 50 years.
     
    Simon KC1950, David A and newvillefan like this.
  14. ars nova

    ars nova Active Member

    you are dreaming....a lovely dream....and one I share.
     
    David A likes this.
  15. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    THIS would be worth breaking my bank account for!

    I know Harry's not with me on this, but I love the live Palladium album in particular and would love to hear more live releases as well.
     
  16. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Don't misunderstand me - I like the live stuff we already have, and wouldn't mind an expanded Palladium concert, but I don't crave it. I fully understand why Richard doesn't like live recordings and I feel pretty much the same way. I just don't think that a 50th anniversary is the appropriate place for more live stuff. It seems like a 50th anniversary ought to be something bigger. As I said, they pretty much did the same songs over and over in these concerts, and they pretty much sounded just the same each time.
     
    Mark-T likes this.
  17. UPDATE

    I decided to email Richard yesterday, asking if there are any plans yet for any releases' and I just got a reply from his personal assistant. She said that there are no plans yet.
    "no release plans at this time"

    YET !!! Key word "Yet" " at This Time"
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    David A likes this.
  18. Actorman

    Actorman Active Member

    One thing I think Universal should do for the 50th is update the RIAA certifications for the Carpenters' catalog. The reduced threshold for gold and platinum single sales would make all of their gold singles platinum now and several of the uncertified ones are likely gold as well. Plus, we figured out awhile back that "Christmas Portrait" would be at least double platinum now based on published Soundscan data.

    That would be a really nice way for Universal to acknowledge 50 years of strong, consistent catalog sales.
     
  19. Someday

    Someday Active Member

    My understanding of RC's comment - Lovelines being the final Carpenters album. I took this to mean the fact that it was mastered and presented like a studio album - almost the 10th Anniversary album that never was. Compilations are a different thing altogether.
     
  20. Can they retroactively reclassify like that? I thought RIAA used the standards in place at release.
     
  21. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    The more I think about how the Richard-Universal relationship has soured, the more I believe there won’t be any kind of joint venture to mark this occasion. I think Universal will do whatever they think is fitting come the time and I still think it’ll come down to a commemorative hits package as a way to garner sales for them. Think about it - on one hand, Universal now owns the catalogue and on the other you have Richard stating “all done” in interviews. In the middle of it all is the court case Richard filed against Universal and A&M for unpaid royalties. The last time Richard went to all the trouble of releasing new material was for As Time Goes By and look how that effort was treated by the label. Unless something seismic happens to persuade them, I don’t think anything significant (for the die hard fans) will come to pass.
     
  22. A&M Retro

    A&M Retro Well-Known Member

    If there is something in the works, I don’t think Richard will reveal anything just yet. I have a feeling something will be coming. It’s too big of a milestone to let pass quietly.
     
    Simon KC1950 likes this.
  23. Actorman

    Actorman Active Member

    Yes, there is precedent for it. Epic Records did it for 4 older "Off The Wall" era Michael Jackson singles in February of 1989. (The reduced sales criteria went into effect in January of 1989.) RCA did it for over 40 old Elvis singles in March of 1992. There were even 5 Fifth Dimension singles that were upgraded in August of 1991. There are a handful of other one-off examples, but those are some off the top of my head.

    It really just depends on the record company, the artist(s) and/or the artist's management as to if they want to pursue it, pay the applicable fees, submit to the audit, etc.
     
  24. CARPENTERS-COLLECTOR

    CARPENTERS-COLLECTOR Active Member

    U.K
    wasn't sure where to put this.
    I think there was a discussion about what people would like to see come out for the 50th and the one thing I`ve often thought I`d like to see, is some of the concerts restored or a music video collection on bluray etc.
    anyway, I came across this on Ebay while looking at Carpenters stuff. I don`t think I`m allowed to put links here, so if you just copy and paste this into the search box on ebay;

    Carpenters in Japan 1974 1976 1972 Blu-ray

    anyone know anything about this or is this a boot-leg again?
     
  25. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

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