Win, Lose, Draw: Carpenters vs. Others

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Mark-T

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I've been thinking that our favorite duo has recorded many songs which were either previously recorded by others or later recorded by someone else. How do these songs hold up in comparison?

So, time for a game of sorts.
Fill in a slot for each, explaining your choices.

Win: "Baby, It's You"
Lose: "I Just Fall in Love Again"
Draw: "Where Do I Go From Here?"

"Baby It's You" may be my definitive Carpenters version. It's elegant, focused, and with stunning lead and background vocals. The saxophone work is one of the best ever put to vinyl on a Carps disc.

"I Just Fall in Love Again"- The overblown production dominates Karen's vocal, where as Anne Murray's simple recording highlights the lyrics in a much more sincere way.

"Where Do I Go From Here?"- Both the Carpenters version and that by Barry Manilow capture the same "Winter's coming/ what happened to our love?" desperation. The arrangements differ but both are effective. Both artists vocals do credit t0 the story being told.

Your turn.
 
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Win: Santa Claus Is Coming To Town
Lose: This Masquerade
Draw: Ticket To Ride

"Santa Claus" - Thunderous applause and a standing ovation from me. Even though the original has been around for the better part of a century, I dare anyone to come up with a more delightful rendition. Karen's nuance here is definitely the mark of a legend at her musical peak, and Richard violates all expectations having the cheek to rewrite the cadence at the end of the second verse, leaving us hanging with the unresolved block harmonies, and similarly, right at the very end. Genius all round.

"Masquerade" - I always feel more of the magic in George Benson's standout performance from his "Breezin'" album.

"Ticket To Ride" - The Beatles had dropped a couple of notches in the creativity department due to exhaustion at the time of their "Beatles For Sale" album. This brilliant Lennon composition was just the tonic needed. Richard did what the Carpenters needed, demonstrating a remarkable ability to transform a classic and come up with something equally engaging. I don't think that point was lost on Herb Alpert in wanting to persist with the Carpenters (and the rest is history).
 
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Win: "(They Long To Be) Close To You" -- Definitive, top hit! (Even just for the moment; others followed!)

Lose: ""BE-45789" -- Only a "Warm", compared to other oldies they'd done--"Oldies MEDLEY"!!!! Or just in light of "Please Mr. Postman", an idea too dated of its time; if it were saved for Made In America, years later!

Draw: "Goofus" -- And that one speaks for itself!!!! Really: just playful, funny, camp--you can imagine someone having to 'draw' something to that one--hopefully not a GUN! :D


-- Dave
 
Another great thread!

Win: 'A Song For You'
Lose: 'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do'
Draw: 'Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again'

'A Song For You' - of all the versions I've heard of this song, no one can touch Karen. The definitive version of the song: bluesy, perfect sax break, gorgeous harmonies, outstanding lead vocal. It outstrips them all. Should have been released as a single, it would have been a smash.

'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do' - Carpenters at their cornball worst. Richard chose not to release 'Thank You For The Music' because no one does ABBA like ABBA. Well that also applies in this case - they shouldn't have messed with the original Neil Sedaka classic. Having said that, I'd give anything to hear Karen perform the ballad version of this song (which ironically Richard orchestrated for Neil). I imagine it to be akin to her take on 'Ordinary Fool'. Missed opportunity.

'Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again' - gorgeous rendition by the Carpenters, but equally so by Barry Manilow. Whereas Karen's version is dark and foreboding, Barry's is wistful and resigned, topped off with a big band outro. Different but equally successful renditions of the song.
 
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A great thread, but, oh so difficult for me to choose among all the great songs!

Win: Touch Me When We're Dancing... Bama did the original and Alabama a remake, but Carpenters version definitive to my ears.
(note, I was torn between this and Occupants as my winners)
Lose: Breaking Up Is Hard To Do..........I think Newvillefan's comments regarding this song sums it up.
Draw: I Just Fall In Love Again.............Well, I'm sort of cheating, as I do not like Anne Murray's version, but I am in concert
with mstaft in that the overblown production (great as it is) drowns Karen's vocals at times.
 
great stuff,

Win: Solitaire......................... sublimely haunting. . .kicks Elvis and Williams out of touch. (even my Mum. . .who adores Andy Williams, changed her mind.)
Lose: Please Mr Postman. . . .compared to the soul of the Marvelettes, this is kind of what the critics meant by "white bread"
Draw:Help................................a different take that works equally as well as the Beatles.
 
Win: Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft (The original sung by Klaatu isn't something I would listen to more than once, it's plain and repetitive. While the song itself is repetitive, the Carpenters version turned it into a repetitive masterpiece. It sounds like a lot of thought went into arranging it and making it sound unique.)
Lose: For All We Know (I love the way the Carpenters sing this song, but determining how great of a song it is depends on whose version it's being compared to. For instance, I feel like more emotion went into Andy William's version, and I would most likely rank his version at the top, however, Petula Clark's version would go below the Carpenters. I'd also rank Carol Burnett's version as just about even with the Carpenters.)
Draw: One Fine Day (The Carpenters version doesn't really deviate from the original sung by The Chiffons.)
 
Win: 'Trying To Get The Feeling Again': Doesn't get any better than this one. It's classic in every way, and beats Barry's version hands down.

Lose: 'Beechwood': The epitome of white-bread, though it does have its moments. But The Marvelettes version nailed it.

Draw: 'Baby, It's You' is amazing by Carpenters, Beatles, and, most especially, Smith. But each version brings something unique to the song, which tells us that 'Baby It's You' is one kick ass tune! It's almost like hearing an entirely different song with each version.
 
Win: 'You're The One': Karen's sings this so perfectly and what a personal song....I always imagine she is singing it just to me and I blush!! I actually just heard this for the first time on the tube by Jennifer Warnes and while her version is good, Karen's is perfection!!!
Lose: 'Boat To Sail': Just a personal taste but I never liked this song...for me the chorus just drags on and don't like how it starts and stops.
Draw: 'I Just Fall In Love Again': My feelings have changed over time but at first never liked it and don't even care for Anne's version so it must be the song not the singer....but today I kinda like it more...it's a draw!!

Nice thread, Mark!!
 
Oooh, great idea.

Win: Don't Cry For Me, Argentina. Now this isn't my favorite Carpenters song, but I really enjoy it. It's bar none the best version I've ever heard. Karen sings it seriously, with emotion. She sings it as a mature, sophisticated woman instead of as an annoying little girl (cough cough Madonna).

Lose: Jambalaya. Just about my least favorite song, right down there with Saturday and Breaking Up... IMO the Carpenters version really missed the mark and intent of the song. To me the contrast between the lyrics and arrangement/music is comical. The song is supposed to be raunchy and gritty, more like Emmylou Harris's version.

Draw: Desperado. There are so many good versions of this song. Karen really does a great job, and the Carpenters version is one of my favorites.
 
Although this looks like a fun exercise and I understand the premise, I don't see how any song sung by Karen could ever be considered a loser or even a draw, particularly at a website that is supposed to champion this beloved duo. Whenever topics turn to "least favorites," I become anxious, as negativity tends to seep in. What might be my "least favorite" might be someone else's "absolute favorite" and vice-versa. I certainly appreciate the varied opinions outlined at this site. As much as I might like some other singers mentioned here, Karen gets my vote every time!
 
Although this looks like a fun exercise and I understand the premise, I don't see how any song sung by Karen could ever be considered a loser or even a draw, particularly at a website that is supposed to champion this beloved duo. Whenever topics turn to "least favorites," I become anxious, as negativity tends to seep in. What might be my "least favorite" might be someone else's "absolute favorite" and vice-versa. I certainly appreciate the varied opinions outlined at this site. As much as I might like some other singers mentioned here, Karen gets my vote every time!

Join in, it's only a bit of fun :). I challenge anyone to find a forum dedicated to any artist where there isn't a thread about the fans' least favourite tracks. Here's one from a great site about Queen I visit often. Richard would be the first person to admit they picked a couple of absolute duds during their career.
 
Yeah, I agree that Karen generally tops the other artists doing her songs and vice-versa, but she wasn't perfect. And there are a few tracks where they could have done better. But we also didn't know she would pass so damned young. As Richard said, he would have had her singing more songs like 'I Get Along Without You Very Well', which Karen told him in late '82 that she was eager to record.

It's interesting (and painful) to think how much more music we could have had if she'd survived her illness. It would make a song like 'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do' even that much less relevant to their catalog.
 
As Richard said, he would have had her singing more songs like 'I Get Along Without You Very Well', which Karen told him in late '82 that she was eager to record.

Just heard this version for the first time today - it features the Nelson Riddle Orchestra, which was used to orchestrate the music for their last television special. It sounds ready made for Karen, to the point where you could just lift out Linda's vocal and replace it with Karen's. This would have fitted perfectly into Music, Music, Music. I don't think Karen would have belted out the high notes as much as Linda though. Her take would have been more restrained I think.

 
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Win: (They Long To Be) Close To You. Normally, when it comes to a Bacharach/David tune, Dionne Warwick's recording is the definitive version, but not in this case. Burt was right when he said that Richard nailed the arrangement, and put his own to shame.

Lose: Man Smart, Woman Smarter. Hands down the worst recording of the Carpenters career, IMHO. Richard had always been known for his superb arrangements, yet for some reason he chose to do a recreation of Robert Palmer's version, instead of working his usual unique magic on the song. Just a horrible, noisy, migraine-inducing mess. Harry Belafonte should have given RC a swift kick!

Draw: Can't Smile Without You. The tone of the Carpenters version is very different than the tone of the Manilow version. The C's version is optimistic. "You must know what I'm going through. I just can't smile without you", implies a couple in love who are both unhappy when they are separated. Manilow's version, on the other hand, is much darker. "If you only knew what I'm going through..." and "now I'm finding it hard, leaving your love behind me", is the story of a man who's been dumped by the love of his life. Same song, but very different treatment... I like them both!
 
Just heard this version for the first time today - it features the Nelson Riddle Orchestra, which was used to orchestrate the music for their last television special. It sounds ready made for Karen, to the point where you could just lift out Linda's vocal and replace it with Karen's. This would have fitted perfectly into Music, Music, Music. I don't think Karen would have belted out the high notes as much as Linda though. Her take would have been more restrained I think.



I like Linda Ronstadt's stuff a lot, but she definitely has a propensity for bellowing out certain notes.
 
Round Two:

Win: "There's A Kind of Hush"- I really like Herman Hermits' version, but the Carpenters get the win because Peter Noone's "la la la la la la la la" is just a bit much for me and takes away from an overall very nice record. And how can anyone resist Karen's backing vocals on this? Beautiful. Lush and romantic.
Lose: "Can't Smile Without You" - Both the original and remixed version sound childish compared to Barry Manilow's excellent version. The horns just seem so out of step with the song itself.
Draw: "The Christmas Song"- While I love Karen on this, Nat King Cole's version is equally gorgeous.
 
Round Two:
Lose: "Can't Smile Without You" - Both the original and remixed version sound childish compared to Barry Manilow's excellent version. The horns just seem so out of step with the song itself.
I'm surprised that some people don't care for the remixed version of "Can't Smile". I didn't care for the original and was happy to hear Richard's remixed version on the Reader's Digest collection.:phones:
 
I thought the big band arrangement on the single re-recorded version of 'Can't Smile Without You' was a tremendous improvement.
 
Recently gave a spin to Dorothy Moore's I Believe You and Carole Bayer Sager's Somebody's Been Lyin'.
So, I give two more wins to Carpenters' versions of these songs.
Karen's vocalizations blows me away in comparison to the other versions. Especially on the later song, as far as
my two cents are worth, the arrangement and vocals reinforce my conclusion that this duo is pop music brilliance.
 
Somebody's Been Lyin' is one that I took a little while to warm up to. At first I didn't care for Karen's "breathy" voice as much and I felt the song was a little disjointed. After revisiting the track some time later, I came full circle. It's one of my favorites in terms of showcasing her talent and his arrangement skill. What really strikes me is that Somebody's Been Lyin' is a very difficult song to sing. There are many transitions within the song that jump huge gaps in pitch, between odd notes and at unusual places in the lyrical structure. I didn't pick up on it at first as Karen slides between notes with such ease. It's truly amazing to me how graceful of a singer she was- just a natural talent plain and simple.
 
Win - Song For You. Many versions have been done (my wife's a fan of Michael Bublé's take on the song) but for me the Carpenters' recording is the definitive one. The saxophone solo can't be bettered.

Loose - Make Believe It's Your First Time. I always picture Disney-type cartoon blue birds, deer and other cute woodland animals (possibly a fairy godmother or two) singing along to a vaguely bewildered couple in bed. The far simpler and more effective version on Karen's solo album is the better of the two (although I always felt Karen rushed the ending on the solo version - she seems slightly ahead of the music).

Draw - Desperado. I think it showcases Karen at her best vocally (along with Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again) and their take on the song is just as good as the original. Quite like Kenny Rogers' version too.
 
Win - Song For You. Many versions have been done (my wife's a fan of Michael Bublé's take on the song) but for me the Carpenters' recording is the definitive one. The saxophone solo can't be bettered.

Loose - Make Believe It's Your First Time. I always picture Disney-type cartoon blue birds, deer and other cute woodland animals (possibly a fairy godmother or two) singing along to a vaguely bewildered couple in bed. The far simpler and more effective version on Karen's solo album is the better of the two (although I always felt Karen rushed the ending on the solo version - she seems slightly ahead of the music).

Draw - Desperado. I think it showcases Karen at her best vocally (along with Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again) and their take on the song is just as good as the original. Quite like Kenny Rogers' version too.

Aaaaragh. I lost for spelling lose "loose"!
 
Make Believe It's Your First Time [...] The far simpler and more effective version on Karen's solo album is the better of the two (although I always felt Karen rushed the ending on the solo version - she seems slightly ahead of the music).

I've been saying this for years but no one ever agreed with me until now! That's one reason I can't listen to it, the ending is rushed and spoils the song.
 
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