Worst Remixes

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Just so that we don’t go on dirtying up the other thread (sorry, @Simon KC1950). I now end the thread with one song. It gets no worse than this:



Exaggerated high-end? Check
Exaggerated (and at times, off-time) kick drum? Check
Drowning everything in reverb? Check
Stereo-fied piano? Check

If nothing proves that this isn't one of Richard's favorites, this disaster of a remix should do it. Why would he have done this to a song he liked?

Okay, your turn. There are so many others. Give us your worst.

Ed

 

[JohnFB]

Reverb was always problematic on their recordings - but not nearly as much as the double-tracking of Karen's lead vocals. I don't really hear reverb here that much.

I've always thought there was something off, or clumsy, about the main drum entrance at the beginning of the 2nd verse...

My chief complaint with this arrangement isn't really with the mix, but with the arrangement that has only a far-too-short instrumental solo in the middle section (same with ROAD ODE, RAINY DAYS AND MONDAYS, etc.) which should have been extended, at least on the album version...so many blown opportunities to transform good recordings into outstanding ones.

Two other songs that come immedately to mind where the mix overwhelms Karen's vocals are I JUST FALL IN LOVE AGAIN and the lovely (and underrated) WHEN IT'S GONE (IT'S JUST GONE).

 

[tomswift2002]

Actually I tend to prefer the remixes. For me, I grew up on them, since I was in the mid-to-late-90’s where the post-78 original mixes were being used for tracks from MIA onward, while the tracks from 69-78 were only available in Remixed form, or what originals were out there were just on the two Singles albums and the CPSE disc. Really the originals were unavailable from 1983-1999/2000, and even when the Remastered Classics were released, at least here in Canada, I don’t recall them being that available—-I didn’t know about them until the end of June 2000 when I saw a few at a few HMV’s and other “mom & pop” stores in Winnipeg (never saw them in Ottawa—-the only two I found in Ottawa were an original 1989 release of “Lovelines” and the MFSL release of “A Song For You” ).

 

[Matthew S]

Just so that we don’t go on dirtying up the other thread (sorry, @Simon KC1950). I now end the thread with one song. It gets no worse than this:



Exaggerated high-end? Check
Exaggerated (and at times, off-time) kick drum? Check
Drowning everything in reverb? Check
Stereo-fied piano? Check

If nothing proves that this isn't one of Richard's favorites, this disaster of a remix should do it. Why would he have done this to a song he liked?

Okay, your turn. There are so many others. Give us your worst.

Ed

I never liked the added synth kick drum, it isn’t natural because it’s in perfect computerized time in which the humans who were playing on the track were not. However I actually like the stereo piano and don’t mind the reverb. I think it gave a freshness to a track that sounded kind of flat (not flat like below pitch, just boring). This one isn’t one I really hate. It’s that TOTW remix with the horrible horrible kick drum that’s my least favorite of all.

 

[Murray]

Actually I tend to prefer the remixes. For me, I grew up on them, since I was in the mid-to-late-90’s where the post-78 original mixes were being used for tracks from MIA onward, while the tracks from 69-78 were only available in Remixed form, or what originals were out there were just on the two Singles albums and the CPSE disc. Really the originals were unavailable from 1983-1999/2000, and even when the Remastered Classics were released, at least here in Canada, I don’t recall them being that available—-I didn’t know about them until the end of June 2000 when I saw a few at a few HMV’s and other “mom & pop” stores in Winnipeg (never saw them in Ottawa—-the only two I found in Ottawa were an original 1989 release of “Lovelines” and the MFSL release of “A Song For You” ).

That's because the Remastered Classics series was never released in Canada. The few copies that made their way to Canadian record stores were all imports. I only ever saw four of them locally (one copy each of VOTH, Close to You, Now & Then, and Singles 69-73), and every one had an import sticker on it.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Okay, here's another. We mentioned it in the other thread but it's gotta be here.



Karen drowning in reverb? Check
Over-emphasized and off-time kick drum? Check
Additional keyboards because...reasons? Check

Ed

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

And the hits just keep on comin'...



Off-time kick drum? Check
Karen drowning in reverb? Check

Come to think of it, this album is a bit of a haven for bad remixes in the name of making them 5.1-ready.

Ed

 

[Jack A.]

And the hits just keep on comin'...



Off-time kick drum? Check
Karen drowning in reverb? Check

Come to think of it, this album is a bit of a haven for bad remixes in the name of making them 5.1-ready.

Ed

That kick drum...wow........

I feel that certain songs can be improved with a little extra kick, but when it's way out front in the mix like that, to the point where it's the main thing you hear, and not even completely on time, it just distracts you from the rest of the song. I personally don't really want to criticize Richard's work much, because I have so much admiration for him overall, but that's the main reason why I tend to prefer the original album mixes for a lot of these songs.

Also, did anyone else hear that weird sound at about 2:15? What is that? It's present on the original album version as well.

 

[Nemily]

Okay, here's another. We mentioned it in the other thread but it's gotta be here.



Karen drowning in reverb? Check
Over-emphasized and off-time kick drum? Check
Additional keyboards because...reasons? Check

Ed

This is dangerously close to a Techno Beat

 

[Nemily]

I personally don't really want to criticize Richard's work much, because I have so much admiration for him overall, but that's the main reason why I tend to prefer the original album mixes for a lot of these songs.

I feel the same

 

[Nemily]

Carpenters Gold is a personal favorite as far as CD quality, second only to my copy of the Japan SMH-CD Solo CD. There are 3 remixes on the Carpenters Gold CD. I like two of them and will post on the other thread.

What mostly stands out to me on the 1991 remixes of CTY on this CD is that the hook (Karen’s vocal) is pulled back to be level with everything else going on, even the backups. It seems that it has always worked best for the Duo when you keep your lead as the best part of the song. Those of us who are used to the originals, Richard was always asking for more lead and whatever happened during these ‘91 mixes compromised that. I think that the original of CTY had better oomph with “more forward vocal”.

There are things that I like here on the ’91 mix, for example I can clearly hear little things like the sixteenth notes on the hi-hat on the remix, I barely hear that on the original. That’s one of the benefits of digital is to clean it up and make it bigger, right?

The down side of tinkering here is that the kick drum is that it is randomly chopped to keep it from being oversaturated so that it doesn’t struggle for space with the bass and ends up being at times non-existent. Suddenly there fewer recognizable Hal beats. Hal Blaine is the third best thing after Karen’s lead and Richard/Karen’s waah’s on the original recording, so I am feeling the void.

 

[tomswift2002]

That's because the Remastered Classics series was never released in Canada. The few copies that made their way to Canadian record stores were all imports. I only ever saw four of them locally (one copy each of VOTH, Close to You, Now & Then, and Singles 69-73), and every one had an import sticker on it.

Well I remember back then that even my local record stores that could special order, didn’t have any listings under the import section.

However, one of my CD’s never had the import label. I think it was “A Kind of Hush”. (I still have the stickers that were on each CD.)

But, anyway, that time period the Remixes were the only way to get the Carpenters early tracks.

 

[JohnFB]

Okay, here's another. We mentioned it in the other thread but it's gotta be here.



Karen drowning in reverb? Check
Over-emphasized and off-time kick drum? Check
Additional keyboards because...reasons? Check

Ed

Is it reverb or is it the "Les Paul Effect" (needless, unjustifiable, overlapping multiple tracks by the same artist on the same lines...)?

 

[JohnFB]

... I personally don't really want to criticize Richard's work much, because I have so much admiration for him overall, but that's the main reason why I tend to prefer the original album mixes for a lot of these songs.

We all admire Richard greatly - and for many good reasons - but his body of work is not above criticism, especially certain recording techniques that pandered to the popular tastes of the moment, certain unfortunate song selections, and certain arrangements that didn't fulfill the promise or potential of the song being recorded - and, yes, there was that little matter of bullying his kid sister into coming out from behind her beloved drum kit (in retrospect, a MAJOR mistake)....

 

[Rudy]

Okay, your turn. There are so many others. Give us your worst.

I would say, "all of them." I hate revisionist tinkering, and there was nothing wrong with the originals. Recordings are time capsules, and to keep piling on modern mixing and/or re-recordings only ruins that.

 

[CarpentersToYou]

We may not be fans of every single remix, but we are lucky to have many. I personally didn't love "It's Going To Take Some time" until i heard the remix with new life breathed into it.

 

[newvillefan]

Here’s a question: what was the very first track Richard remixed after Karen’s passing? And for which project?

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Is it reverb or is it the "Les Paul Effect" (needless, unjustifiable, overlapping multiple tracks by the same artist on the same lines...)?

Oh it’s the reverb in this one. Totally annoying. He did this on so many of his remixes. No clue why he thought it sounded good.

Ed

 

[Nemily]

We may not be fans of every single remix, but we are lucky to have many. I personally didn't love "It's Going To Take Some time" until i heard the remix with new life breathed into it.

Now that I agree with. Of course. We are very fortunate that we have such an enormous catalog to listen to and talk about. I hope Richard continues to keep doing whatever he thinks best with his music.

 

[Harry]

Here’s a question: what was the very first track Richard remixed after Karen’s passing? And for which project?

I'll vote for "Ave Maria" for the CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT SPECIAL EDITION.

 

[Nemily]

Here’s a question: what was the very first track Richard remixed after Karen’s passing? And for which project?

I’m on the thought that after Voice of the Heart, Richard’s attention went right to An Old Fashioned Christmas. And yes, I remember there was something on Karen’s vocal he wanted to fix on Ave Maria (Gunod) but that was on a different album. I learned from someone here a while back that there was a remix of the 1974 Single of Santa Clause is Coming to Town and AOFC was released in 1984 so I am going to vote for that one.

 

[tomswift2002]

I’m on the thought that after Voice of the Heart, Richard’s attention went right to An Old Fashioned Christmas. And yes, I remember there was something on Karen’s vocal he wanted to fix on Ave Maria (Gunod) but that was on a different album. I learned from someone here a while back that there was a remix of the 1974 Single of Santa Clause is Coming to Town and AOFC was released in 1984 so I am going to vote for that one.

With Ave Maria it was always intended for there to be a choral backing Karen, but the sheet music for that had been mislaid in 77/78 so the choral wasn’t recorded in 77/78 (I forget which special Ave Maria, so it was recorded in 1984.

However with remixes, especially when we are talking about songs that first appeared on TV in the 70’s and 80’s, the TV masters were mixed in mono, so later on when the songs were released on vinyl or CD, Richard needed to remix them (or in the case of From This Moment On re-record the piano) in stereo in order to get the proper sound on stereos. Yes he could’ve just issued the mono TV mixes, however they would not have sounded the best. One album that I think of that had this same issue was the 1989 Beach Boys album, Still Cruisin’ where after 7 tracks in 1980’s 2-track digital stereo (and especially on the vinyl where Side 2 opens with 2 1980’s stereo tracks), you end with 3 mono 1960’s tracks and the difference in mix is very striking.

 

[Nemily]

I’ve never before paid attention to the choral backup details on the 1978 Ave Maria. Thanks so much for that. The TV Special you are thinking of with the Ave Maria is their second holiday special Carpenters: A Christmas Portrait (1978).

I remembered reading in The Musical Legacy that there was an editing error fixed on Karen’s lead vocal and having gone back to double check that, I see that the editing error was made on a subsequent remix in 1990 for From the Top. The 1984 remix adding the choir was done while An Old-Fashioned Christmas was underway.

I have a question on the mono and TV masters. The vocals on And When He Smiles were on its’ own separate mono track apart from the instruments, which were also on a mono track. Richard mixed them in stereo for the 2001 bonus track on As Time Goes By. Easy to follow along on that one. Although for the Ave Maria, which was also first from a mono track from a TV special, was mixed in stereo for Christmas Portrait in 1978, was then again remixed adding the choir in 1984 for Christmas Portrait – The Special Edition.

Was the choral backup in 1984 and the editing on the vocal lead that was fixed in 1990 added to the already finished mixes or did Richard split everything back into mono and then start over clean each time? I hope this question makes sense.

 

[tomswift2002]

I’ve never before paid attention to the choral backup details on the 1978 Ave Maria. Thanks so much for that. The TV Special you are thinking of with the Ave Maria is their second holiday special Carpenters: A Christmas Portrait (1978).

I remembered reading in The Musical Legacy that there was an editing error fixed on Karen’s lead vocal and having gone back to double check that, I see that the editing error was made on a subsequent remix in 1990 for From the Top. The 1984 remix adding the choir was done while An Old-Fashioned Christmas was underway.

I have a question on the mono and TV masters. The vocals on And When He Smiles were on its’ own separate mono track apart from the instruments, which were also on a mono track. Richard mixed them in stereo for the 2001 bonus track on As Time Goes By. Easy to follow along on that one. Although for the Ave Maria, which was also first from a mono track from a TV special, was mixed in stereo for Christmas Portrait in 1978, was then again remixed adding the choir in 1984 for Christmas Portrait – The Special Edition.

Was the choral backup in 1984 and the editing on the vocal lead that was fixed in 1990 added to the already finished mixes or did Richard split everything back into mono and then start over clean each time? I hope this question makes sense.

And When He Smiles was recorded live to videotape (2-inch Quad) that only contained 2 audio tracks (if the cue track was employed as an audio track otherwise there was only 1 audio track, since the cue track would’ve been used for cue tones for editing). Depending on the source, Karen’s vocals might not have been on their own track. And if it was from a copy of the original PAL master (most likely due to the BBC’s junking policy) it was probably locked into a single channel track that included the vocals and instruments together. (In 71, the BBC might’ve left the cue track open on dubs for other broadcasters to have that cue so that if they needed to cut stuff for additional commercials, then they had that track.)

Ave Maria is a studio track, so it was recorded on 24-track analog audio tape in 78. Plus if more than one tape was used, there could’ve been 48-tracks or more that could be mixed down to one stereo or mono master. Ave Maria’s 1984 and later additions would’ve been added to separate tracks and then either muted or left on depending on the mix.

 

[Nemily]

There it is . Thank you for the in depth details on these two specific processes @tomswift2002. I find it all fascinating.