Your opinion - Is The Unreleased Vault sealed forever?

[aaflyer98]

OK, it's been years since we have had any "previously unreleased" new material - either from the Carpenters or Karen's solo album. This year would have been a perfect opportunity to have yet another greatest hits collection with one or two (or seven or eight!) previously unreleased tracks from the Carpenters or to see Karen's solo album re-released with completed additional tracks. Does anyone think we will ever see or hear anything new ever again? Is "Thank You For The Music" and other recorded material locked in the vault forever? I tend to think so, regretfully. What's your opinion?

 

[newvillefan]

Love the thread Patrick! My honest comment would be that I don't think the vault is completely closed ever. Even Richard hadn't realised that 'Trying To Get The Feeling Again' was tucked away on the master tapes of 'Only Yesterday'.

It was a complete surprise to me to find that on the 'Interpretations' compilation, although the MMM tracks weren't because I knew they existed. Richard seems to be of the firm view that he won't put out anything that features any other artists such as Suzanne Somers, John Denver, John Davidson. Why would he? They detract from everything the Carpenters career stands for, which is just HIM and KAREN. The only exceptions were the Karen/Ella medley and the heavily doctored Como Medley, because they feature timeless and classy vocalists of Karen's calibre and therefore are deemed worthy of release (he even tried to have the Karen/Ella medley cleared for Voice Of The Heart in 1983). The rest is throwaway fluff from their TV specials. Even I cringe at most of that stuff, so how must he feel about releasing it and it contributing to their legacy?

The solo stuff, he could get away with releasing the ballad 'Something's Missing', but as for the rest of it? I think we should kiss goodbye to a release in his lifetime, as the original finished material was deemed sub-standard, how could the outtakes be deemed to be releasable?

 

[aaflyer98]

I think we should kiss goodbye to a release in his lifetime

Yes, I agree with that statement on the Carpenters material.

 

[newvillefan]

But even if the defunct A&M label or Universal decide to release something after his passing, who's going to guarantee it will be done properly?

Richard will have to forego the rider in their contract that nothing would ever be released without his permission, because he won't be around to give it.

 

[aaflyer98]

Good point. Maybe he should FEAR that it wouldn't be done right, and just go ahead and finish it up someway, somehow and put it all out there!!!(thinking of ways to motivate Richard to RELEASE!! )

 

[Mark-T]

My thoughts are that the vault is unfortunately closed- and all we will be left with are a never ending cycle of remixes and repackaging.

 

[Song4uman]

My thoughts are that the vault is unfortunately closed- and all we will be left with are a never ending cycle of remixes and repackaging.

I think this is sadly correct... That part that Richard may or may not realize is that eventually everyone will get tired of purchasing the remixed/repackaged collections. (I already am...)

If he would release new things, then we would all be purchasing those (as they are remixed and repackaged...)

jonathan

 

[Calvin R Murty]

I don't mind if the vaults are closed, music-wise, as I never tire of listening to their stuff, at regular intervals (now & then! )

What I REALLY want are the DVDs of all the 5 TV specials...it would be nice if they were done up in a box set or something.

 

[SakuraSYayoi]

I'd really love to listen to "'Something's Missin'" on CD. "40/40" is to be released worldwide this autumn. If this song will be released at the same time, it may be good timing.
I'd rather want Richard to concentrate new album.

It was hard to gather tapes for single box set.

Richard wanted "40/40" as new remastered, 24bit(?)
However master tapes were lost in the fire.
Even if master tapes are safe in Iron Mountain, they didn't use them.
Can we expect even new remix?

I am not a collector, I don't buy every release.
Compilation albums are good for new fans. If compilation CD's don't sell, studio albums and box set cannot be re-released or released, I think.

Karen's solo must be safe at Phil Ramone's, both multi-channel and other stereo tapes.


I want DVD:"Live in Japan 1972" and YAMAHA 1970!!!

Karen's solo album and "Live at Budokan" were released when "I Need To Be In Love/22 Hits of the Carpenters" sold very very well in Japan.

Get "40/40" in your country, buy more for presents for your family and friends!!
May Carpenters boom occur!!

Sakura

 

[goodjeans]

I will remain stoic and disagree with all posts above mine, however correct they may be. Isn't there another version of 'Ave Maria' recorded? If/when RC releases a Christmas CD maybe it will be included. As far as the rest of the vaulted recordings, please never say never.

 

[carrpentersboy1]

Unfortunately, knowing Richard's belief that nothing else is suitable, I think the vault is tight shut!

This year was a true lost opportunity to release an updated From The Top style compilation with remaining unreleased tracks or alternate versions or, as suggested above, an update to Karen's solo CD.

We all know the songs that might have been included.

A previously cancelled DVD set of Live at the BBC would do well and so would the 5 ABC TV specials on DVD but I have more chance of bringing people back from the dead than Richard agreeing to that.

I also think that the pace and number of reissues and compilations will slow down alot.

At least I have the stuff I do to enjoy.

Thanks Karen and Richard

 

[ullalume]

Yeah,

Richard's current mind-set is incredibly protective of their legacy, more so than ever.

Over the last few years he's been downright regretful of putting out most material from the post-humous albums. . .I think Now and Ordinary Fool are the only ones he's comfortable with.

I think it's going to take many years for him to shift into a different mentality and perhaps mirror his quotes from '83 that "it'd be wrong to have these tracks sitting on a shelf gathering dust". I feel Leave Yesterday Behind is superior to some tracks in VOH, like Prime Time Love and Two Lives.

Or we'll never get the 3 or 4 songs he's mentioned he wouldn't mind putting out back in the "Lost Treasures" response of '96.

I think the latter is more likely. In a way I think the 17 years between her death and "As Time Goes By" was a kind of therapy for him. . .him dealing with the loss of his sister/friend/partner and his career at the age of 36. Now he's got his family, his new album. . .I'm guessing it won't be out this Xmas.

Take Care

Neil

 

[newvillefan]

I'll stick my neck out and say that I think the only songs that will see the light of day still to come are:

Ave Maria (alternate version)
Play A Simple Melody (1980)
Why Don't They Understand (1980)

Although I think it was a huge wasted opportunity on 'As Time Goes By' (especially since Richard did opt for tracks with little value such as 'Close Encounters/Star Wars'), I do hope 'You'll Never Know' (1980) does still see the light of day.

As for Karen's solo tracks, I think a future compilation might feature these two songs, which are probably the best/most complete (respectively) of the remaining tracks,

Something's Missing (1979)
Love Making Love To You (1979)

 

[A&M Retro]

There have been literally HUNDREDS of alternate takes from Elvis Presley. Enough, in fact, to fill several boxed sets of his material. The same COULD be happening with Carpenters' alternate takes and Karen Carpenter solo out-takes.

Imagine the opportunity to hear the first two versions of "Close to You" that DIDN'T make the cut! Fascinating to think about, and totally possible. Unfortunately, due to Richard's obsessive nature regarding perfection, we'll probably never hear them.

We already HAVE the 'perfect' Carpenters on each and every album. The fans (who made the Carpenters the success they became) would LOVE to hear their alternate takes....even if they're not perfect! We would cherish them. We're not asking that Richard release songs that they hated....just alternates of tunes we all know and love. Even studio chatter between songs would be entertaining as hell!

Here's hoping that Richard soon realizes the goldmine at his fingertips.
Bob.

 

[newvillefan]

There have been literally HUNDREDS of alternate takes from Elvis Presley. Enough, in fact, to fill several boxed sets of his material. The same COULD be happening with Carpenters' alternate takes and Karen Carpenter solo out-takes.

The thing is, the Carpenters are not on the mega stardom scale that Elvis and The Beatles are, and both of them released the Anthology type sets. These days it's only the odd Carpenters hits collection here and there that makes the charts. A lengthy, expensive box set trawling through the archives would sink without a trace, and that makes it a waste of money and therefore it probably will never happen. Look what happened to 'As Time Goes By'

Imagine the opportunity to hear the first two versions of "Close to You" that DIDN'T make the cut! Fascinating to think about, and totally possible. Unfortunately, due to Richard's obsessive nature regarding perfection, we'll probably never hear them.

We already HAVE the 'perfect' Carpenters on each and every album.

I think this is exactly the reason he WON'T release those two outtakes. They are less than perfect, which in his book makes them unreleasable.

As for the outtakes, he won't release them unless he can brush them up to sound perfect. Why do you think we didn't get the unsweetened version of 'Honolulu City Lights' complete with Karen's comment at the end of the take 'that was good!'

 

[A&M Retro]

Yeah, you're obviously right. The whole point of my post was to get Richard to look outside the walls of perfection.

The unsweetened version of "Honolulu City Lights" hardly differs at all from the released version, so I can understand why Richard didn't put that out.

Being that A&M recorded most of what was going on, there MUST be alternate versions with alternate vocal tracks of the majority of their recorded output. That's why you hear alternate vocal lines popping up in Richard's remixes! Examples: "A Song For You" and "Maybe It's You".

In addition, the comment Karen makes at the end, "That was good!" MAY have originated from the KFRC jingle from 1978.
A very early tape that circulated among fans in the '80's has that comment being made at the end of the jingle....about 10 seconds after they finish performing it. I heard that version long before the one that circulates now.

 

[A&M Retro]

I disagree. Worldwide sales would validate a boxed set and/or even a 2CD set of rarities. Japan would buy it. So would fans in Britian and Brazil, amongst other places.
If we depended on U.S. buyers exclusively, we would be in big trouble. It's the overall picture I'm talking about.

 

[ullalume]

In response to Steve,

Intrigued how you know Why don't they understand is from 1980. Please tell.

I'd also add Try to Win A Friend from '74 and All My Life '80.

And I think Won't You Play A Simple is from '78, the second xmas special when their folks came into the studio.

These were the four I spoke of. I didn't know about the alternate take of Ave Maria. . .maybe a bonus on the upcoming xmas album. . .here's hoping.

But, regretfully, I seriously doubt it.


Neil

 

[JAZZ4JEFF]

I think the most natural vault release would be a duets CD.

Take some of the TV specials duets like John Denver, Perry Como, John Davidson, Ella, Carol Burnett and create a special CD.

Then to really make the market buzz, add one or two newly recorded duets with current stars like Taylor Swift or Olivia Newton John. The recent duets projects with Dean Martin and Natalie Cole really show off the current technology.

 

[newvillefan]

I think the most natural vault release would be a duets CD.

Take some of the TV specials duets like John Denver, Perry Como, John Davidson, Ella, Carol Burnett and create a special CD.

I think the reason he won't do this is royalties. John Davidson asked for an outrageous royalty for his version to be released on the album. Same with Ella, her estate argued from 1983 to 2000 until they finally agreed a suitable price.

The rest of the duet vocals from the specials, to my knowledge, are locked onto one track. Which makes them almost impossible to separate properly into stereo tracks.

Then to really make the market buzz, add one or two newly recorded duets with current stars like Taylor Swift or Olivia Newton John. The recent duets projects with Dean Martin and Natalie Cole really show off the current technology.

Who would produce it though? It would take something special to tempt Richard out of semi retirement to a. be involved in this and b. allow someone else to produce his sister's precious tapes if he chose not to do it himself.

 

[goodjeans]

I thought that Richard was coming out of retirement after having read all of those news items about a comeback. Planning a release of outtakes and rarities couldn't hurt(?) and may possibly help with this venture.

 

[newvillefan]

Richard was planning to make a comeback with a new vocalist. I guess one new album. There wasn't any mention of outtakes and rarities. In his book I think he's already been there and done that.

 

[aaflyer98]

I hope the unreleased recordings are kept safe and have been "backed up" so to speak, so the quality remains good and there is a back up copy. Looks like they will have lots of dust on them if and when we ever get to hear them!

 

[PJ]

Hi All,

There are many more Carpenters Vault & Richard's own Archive tracks that could be released & probably will be in due course .....without Richard having to issue sub-standard recordings that other artists / companies have done ....

However Richard is focusing on his own projects both as Solo Artist & Aranger / Producer for 2009 /2010 ....& I look forward to new RC material ....long overdue

Really Richard has not issued any more Carpenters tracks due to the lack of support & promotion for Lovelines ( both A&M & Polygram) & As Time Goes By ( Universal -except for Japan ) ....there was a contractual dispute with Universal over ATGB & relations are cool at best .....if Music companies respected their major artists more instead of looking at their releases as cash cows ....much more could be achieved ....

With Universal ( as with A&M plus Polygram) Carpenters have been continually profitable .....very profitable with limited promotion costs & huge sales ....often it needs collectors & long term fans to recommend new / further releases rather than same old Greatest Hits / Singles compilations ......

More can be released & we can assist by writing / e-mailing Universal in our own regions re : Box Sets, Special Editions , Rarities releases & more ......

Peter UK

 

[A&M Retro]

Thanks, Peter, for the great advice, and for your positive outlook! We all need to follow up and do just that....write Universal....to let them know we want more.

There's so much more we haven't heard....alternate takes alone.
Bob.