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You've asked a complicated question-I'll try to answer it in three different sections:
1. An album that is commercially viable for one artist isn't necessarily commercial viable for another.The type of album that Karen made with Phil might've been a good album for Cher,Olivia Newton-John or Teena Marie,but not Karen.
2.Albums get cancelled all the time-and for many different reasons.The situation with Karen's album wasn't unique or strange.Rita Coolidge(another veteran A&M artist) recorded a jazz album in 1975-that got turned down by A&M.A&M felt that Rita wasn't an established artist at that point,and didn't have a jazz audience that would buy the album.If that album was recorded by Karen,it would've gotten a surefire release.Conversely,if Rita recorded Karen's solo album in 1975,it might have been released and scored Rita a severely needed hit-single.
I just recently found out that(80's pop diva) Laura Branigan's 1982 debut album wasn't her debut album.She actually recorded her debut album in 1980-and by the time it was ready for release in 1981,Atlantic decided to cancel it.Many of the disco tracks on the album were already "dated" a year after they were recorded.She subsequently recorded a whole new debut album(with "Gloria") that finally came out in 1982.
3. Richard's solo album came into existence only because Karen was gone.And,except for one more forthcoming album(Lovelines) there would be no more new Carpenters albums.Richard's album isn't any better than Karen's-but it came into fruition under totally different circumstances.In all likelihood,the two Christmas albums He recorded were probably turned down by Universal.
In all likelihood,the two Christmas albums He recorded were probably turned down by Universal.
With such monetary success garnered by A&M Records, due to Carpenters' success, there is no reason to believe--nor am I able to comprehend--the album's cancellation in May 1980. ( It would have made sense to do so very much earlier in the game.)
It's true that we have a lot to thank A&M for (or least Herb Alpert - apparently Karen and Richard's relationship with Jerry Moss was never that close), particularly in terms of giving them a break, but as with all record companies, it's a two-way street. Their music was massively profitable for A&M over the years (I think they were the biggest act that the label ever produced?) and it's been well documented that at times both Richard and Karen were unhappy with the label in terms of handling of their image and lack of respect shown to them by A&M staff.
It is true that we'll probably never know exactly why the solo album was shelved and why A&M were happy to allow their $100,000 investment to go down the drain, but let's remember that, during the same time period, they were happy to bankroll and release rubbish like The Ethel Merman Disco Album that sold nothing. There was clearly much much more to the decision than just cutting their losses because they thought it wouldn't sell.
In terms of Time, I suspect A&M didn't apply the same standard of appraisal to it as they had Karen's solo album in going ahead with its release as they were happy to give Richard, the custodian of the music of their biggest selling act, a free run as a quid pro quo for all the money they were making from Carpenters sales. Given that it apparently took the best part of two years to record (albeit that some of that delay was due to the refurbishing of the A&M studios) and Richard's perfectionism, I don't imagine that Time was a cheap album was make.
^^I don't know, that doesn't answer it for me at all....that basically says Karen chose the wrong material and the material she should have recorded was XYZ....so whose album was it anyway? We keep taking Karen's album away from Karen, I don't get it. Karen's album was Karen's album, if she wanted to make a jazz album she would have done one but she recorded what she wanted and the vocal work she did on it was amazing and intricate. That's the bottom line. We can't say it wasn't commercially viable because the thing never had a chance to see the light of day, the waters were never tested....all we have is how it did 16 yrs later and we make assumptions in 96 (to current day) how it would have gone in 80. How can that be fair to Karen?
This comes back to what others have said - if Karen was previewing her material with friends throughout its recording, why weren't any previews given to anyone at A&M until it was fully completed? Maybe it's not the done thing but you'd think someone at the label would have had the sense to ask for a listen to the first batch of completed tracks to test the waters midway through the project, rather than leave Karen to her own devices for almost twelve months before a preview of the finished product. I'm sure we'll never know the full story.
illboard Magazine, May 5,1979:
MOR Artists go to Funkier Sound (Paul Grein):
"....The Carpenters made a big departure with their 1977 album Passage....The album received the most favorable reviews of the
Carpenters' career, but was their first in seven years to miss Gold Certification.
Now, Karen Carpenter will cut a solo album for A&M with Phil Ramone producing.
Explains Ramone, "We're going to go a totally different direction with Karen, more into rock and funky stuff."
In recent radio interviews A&M vice chairman Herb Alpert stressed that Richard and Karen will still record as the Carpenters,
but Richard, who had produced the duos LP's for the past six years, wanted to take some time off, leading to Karen's match-up with Ramone.
I get what Mr. J is saying. Karen's album isn't what they expected of her and wasn't the kind of record they thought would sell. In truth, it is very different and perhaps they feared it would be hurtful not only to her image but to Carpenters going forward. Carpenters were hardly "on fire" sale-wise at this point and they hadn't had a huge hit in a while. The last thing they needed was (in theory) for Karen to release a solo album that went in a completely different direction.
This is what being a solo artist is all about, creating, keeping your appeal fresh and not staying in the same mold album after album.
The root problem in all of this is that A&M - and definitely Richard - never saw her as a solo artist. Once they were launched and successful, they were seen as an inextricable duo. And that was the biggest ball and chain of all for Karen. Forget Richard saying "we should have been doing more songs in the vein of 'I Get Along Without You Very Well'". She should have been out there duetting with some of the biggest names of her generation. But it never happened. We can only wonder why that was, but it doesn't take a genius to work it out.
If that was the reason A&M didn't release her album because it wasn't what they expected of her then that is like telling an artist you can't grow or try new ideas or be creative, no you can only stay in one genre because that is what you're good at doing. Doesn't that sound a bit controlling to an artist? I always bring this up but it's a great correlation although Olivia was not a duo act the underlying music aspect is the same, in 77 Olivia releases Making a Good Thing Better with tepid sales up to this point she was labeled as white bread, soft mellow and she ventured off into Grease in 78 afraid of taking on a movie role she requested a screen test before committing, then she launches a 180 in her music career and releases Totally Hot (a more sexy grown up Olivia with lyrics to match) then there's Xanadu and then the real change in 81 with Physical, afraid she would lose her fan base to the suggestive lyrics of Physical she panicked so she tried to water it down by bringing in fitness to the song to take off the edge.
I say all this because the premise is the same, if someone were to have told Olivia, no Totally Hot is too suggestive and Physical are you kidding you want to tarnish your 70's appeal and lose your fan base would be like clipping her wings and saying you can fly but only at this level. This is what being a solo artist is all about, creating, keeping your appeal fresh and not staying in the same mold album after album. I believe this is what Karen desired in her solo album. Karen said it best that she believed that her and Richard could work separately yet still work together. Karen wanted it all, to be a solo artist and to keep Carpenters. Sometimes I get a feeling from some that we are shaming her for wanting to do what she wanted as an individual artist. Richard got that chance on his solo album Time to be an artist as an individual and to work with other artists yet Karen was not able to move forward. I bet if she had been in better health and stabilized her health she would have re-visited this idea, she now had a taste of what it was like to record on her own and that experience wasn't just going to go away.
3. Richard's solo album came into existence only because Karen was gone.And,except for one more forthcoming album(Lovelines) there would be no more new Carpenters albums.Richard's album isn't any better than Karen's-but it came into fruition under totally different circumstances.In all likelihood,the two Christmas albums He recorded were probably turned down by Universal.
I think it's more likely that Richard, being the perfectionist that he is, decided it wasn't "right" yet. Also, perhaps he doesn't feel as confident releasing Christmas-y things without Karen. After all, it wouldn't even have to be through Universal. There are plenty of other companies who'd love to release it.
Also, here's what A&M saw fit to release in 1979....
Karen was given "carte blanche" to record the album and spend A&M's allowance the way she wanted to.This comes back to what others have said - if Karen was previewing her material with friends throughout its recording, why weren't any previews given to anyone at A&M until it was fully completed? Maybe it's not the done thing but you'd think someone at the label would have had the sense to ask for a listen to the first batch of completed tracks to test the waters midway through the project, rather than leave Karen to her own devices for almost twelve months before a preview of the finished product. I'm sure we'll never know the full story.
Harry-actually "Pianist Arranger" was released on A&M.Note:
- PIANIST, ARRANGER, COMPOSER, CONDUCTOR was never really an A&M album. The label imprint at that time was PolyGram, just before the sale to Universal, so it wasn't exactly the same label that released TIME.
Harry-actually "Pianist Arranger" was released on A&M.
A&M was in full operations until Universal took over in January 1999.
A&M ceased being an independent label when Polygram bought the label in 1990,but A&M still operated as a (corporate-owned) label.
Mama Ethel's got my foot a-tappin. I had this lp and had a ball. I have to dig it up on cd or something. Ah yes, they don't make em like that no mo and no less.
Jeff
I've addressed this issue in my last post(paragraph 1 & 2).If that was the reason A&M didn't release her album because it wasn't what they expected of her then that is like telling an artist you can't grow or try new ideas or be creative, no you can only stay in one genre because that is what you're good at doing. Doesn't that sound a bit controlling to an artist? I always bring this up but it's a great correlation although Olivia was not a duo act the underlying music aspect is the same, in 77 Olivia releases Making a Good Thing Better with tepid sales up to this point she was labeled as white bread, soft mellow and she ventured off into Grease in 78 afraid of taking on a movie role she requested a screen test before committing, then she launches a 180 in her music career and releases Totally Hot (a more sexy grown up Olivia with lyrics to match) then there's Xanadu and then the real change in 81 with Physical, afraid she would lose her fan base to the suggestive lyrics of Physical she panicked so she tried to water it down by bringing in fitness to the song to take off the edge. I say all this because the premise is the same, if someone were to have told Olivia, no Totally Hot is too suggestive and Physical are you kidding you want to tarnish your 70's appeal and lose your fan base would be like clipping her wings and saying you can fly but only at this level. This is what being a solo artist is all about, creating, keeping your appeal fresh and not staying in the same mold album after album. I believe this is what Karen desired in her solo album. Karen said it best that she believed that her and Richard could work separately yet still work together. Karen wanted it all, to be a solo artist and to keep Carpenters. Sometimes I get a feeling from some that we are shaming her for wanting to do what she wanted as an individual artist. Richard got that chance on his solo album Time to be an artist as an individual and to work with other artists yet Karen was not able to move forward. I bet if she had been in better health and stabilized her health she would have re-visited this idea, she now had a taste of what it was like to record on her own and that experience wasn't just going to go away.
Yes-the terms of the sale stipulated that A&M continue as a functioning label.That was part of their deal with Herb when he sold it, wasn't it?
Ed