Carpenters and other Producers

[Mark-T]

If I recall, during the time between "Hush" and the recording for what became "Passage", Richard and A&M seriously considered using a new outside producer. I think the closest that came to happening was with a guy who worked with Helen Reddy at the time.

I was wondering who else may have been considered. Does anyone know?

Listening to "The Bodyguard" soundtrack and Michael Buble yesterday made me think David Foster would have been an excellent choice. He seems to appreciate what different instruments can achieve in an arrangement as well as being a fan of the human voice. All could have made for an excellent way to represent Karen and Richard in a new context.

 

[GaryAlan]

I hate to throw a wrench into the words as written in the Coleman Biography,
but, I find it hard to believe that more than one or two others were considered
for Producing duties on Passage.....after all recall the earlier Jack Daugherty fiasco...
if another producer had come on board--or, had been seriously approached--
the litigation with Jack may not have ended in A&M's favor......so, I find it difficult
to swallow that anyone was seriously considered for Production of Passage...outside of Richard, of course.

But,
David Foster, Barry Gibb, John Ferar (ONJ's Producer ?)
spring to mind.

 

[GATourist]

I've always thought Barry Gibb would have been a fascinating choice for KC's abilities.....

 

[JBee]

I hate to throw a wrench into the words as written in the Coleman Biography,
but, I find it hard to believe that more than one or two others were considered
for Producing duties on Passage.....after all recall the earlier Jack Daugherty fiasco...
if another producer had come on board--or, had been seriously approached--
the litigation with Jack may not have ended in A&M's favor......so, I find it difficult
to swallow that anyone was seriously considered for Production of Passage...outside of Richard, of course.

But,
David Foster, Barry Gibb, John Ferar (ONJ's Producer ?)
spring to mind.

I am dubious as well. I just think of all Phil Ramone did with Karen on her solo album - helping her select the songs, introducing her to writers, bringing in Billy Joel's band, mixing and re-mixing the tracks and even just the overall tone of the album. I can't imagine Richard ceding that kind of authority to someone else, even when Jack Daughterty was the "producer", Richard was the one mostly in control. I imagine that's why RC and Weintraub couldn't find anyone top notch - candidates would have known RC was still the final word.

But it is nice to imagine what Passage (which is already my favorite of the post-Horizon studio albums) would have looked like with a different producer. Or how about the 1978 album that never was. The stuff they did record was all over the place and not a radio hit among the songs. A good producer (of the Ramone/Gibb/Foster type) could've found material and a overall tone for the album that Richard could not.

 

[Chris May]

If I recall, during the time between "Hush" and the recording for what became "Passage", Richard and A&M seriously considered using a new outside producer. I think the closest that came to happening was with a guy who worked with Helen Reddy at the time.

I was wondering who else may have been considered. Does anyone know?

Listening to "The Bodyguard" soundtrack and Michael Buble yesterday made me think David Foster would have been an excellent choice. He seems to appreciate what different instruments can achieve in an arrangement as well as being a fan of the human voice. All could have made for an excellent way to represent Karen and Richard in a new context.

Producer Joe Wissert was the only one that was given any serious consideration for production duties during that time. Obviously things took several unexpected turns over the next few years, so that potential prospect was never fully realized.

 

[Mark-T]

THATS his name. Thanks, Chris.

 

[newvillefan]

Producer Joe Wissert was the only one that was given any serious consideration for production duties during that time. Obviously things took several unexpected turns over the next few years, so that potential prospect was never fully realized.

Didn't they consider Boz Scaggs as well?

 

[Jeff]

I hate to throw a wrench into the words as written in the Coleman Biography,
but, I find it hard to believe that more than one or two others were considered
for Producing duties on Passage.....after all recall the earlier Jack Daugherty fiasco...
if another producer had come on board--or, had been seriously approached--
the litigation with Jack may not have ended in A&M's favor......so, I find it difficult
to swallow that anyone was seriously considered for Production of Passage...outside of Richard, of course.

But,
David Foster, Barry Gibb, John Ferar (ONJ's Producer ?)
spring to mind.

 

[Jeff]

I have a hunch sensitive egos could've put the kabash on outside influences. Richard had a distinct direction for CarpenterS sound and altering that?

 

[GaryAlan]

Not counting The Singles 1969-1973
(clearly a joint effort, Richard, Karen and Jack),
we would have gotten:
Now&Then(1973)
Horizon(1975)
A Kind of Hush (1976),
as the three albums with
sole credit to Richard Carpenter as Producer.
Thus, for the 1977 album Passage,
I simply find it incredulous that the complete Producer duties would have been turned over to another.
After all Jack Daugherty was credited as Producer:
Offering, Close To You, Carpenters, A Song For You.
With the exception of the debut LP, the others credited to Daugherty did multi-platinum sales.
If the LP Passage had brought in another producer--and, if it had done well (better than it did),
this would have posed quite a conundrum ??

 

[Chris May]

Not counting The Singles 1969-1973
(clearly a joint effort, Richard, Karen and Jack),
we would have gotten:
Now&Then(1973)
Horizon(1975)
A Kind of Hush (1976),
as the three albums with
sole credit to Richard Carpenter as Producer.
Thus, for the 1977 album Passage,
I simply find it incredulous that the complete Producer duties would have been turned over to another.
After all Jack Daugherty was credited as Producer:
Offering, Close To You, Carpenters, A Song For You.
With the exception of the debut LP, the others credited to Daugherty did multi-platinum sales.
If the LP Passage had brought in another producer--and, if it had done well (better than it did),
this would have posed quite a conundrum ??

And in reality, Jack never carried out production duties on any of those albums. He acted solely as a contractor and had the title of "producer" written into his contract. Years later there was a settlement related to the financial side of things making it fair for Richard and Karen. They (Richard primarily) were the ones truly responsible for producing those albums.

 

[GaryAlan]

Chris May,
That does seem to be the "party line."
It does not explain to me why Jack would have been retained after Offering failed.
Nor does it explain why there is such a huge difference between A Song For You and Now & Then.
If the above scenario is "gospel,"
it leaves more unanswered than answered.

 

[Chris May]

Chris May,
That does seem to be the "party line."
It does not explain to me why Jack would have been retained after Offering failed.
Nor does it explain why there is such a huge difference between A Song For You and Now & Then.
If the above scenario is "gospel,"
it leaves more unanswered than answered.

Not sure I understand the logic @GaryAlan. Jack had nothing to do with either the failure or success side of things.

 

[GaryAlan]

In two separate instances at Grammy Awards,
both Karen and Richard step up to the podium
and their first words are:
"We would like to thank our producer Jack Daugherty...."
and,
"would not have been possible without our producer Jack Daugherty",

These words at the Grammy Awards--at that time-- speak volumes.
Either he was instrumental, or not.
If not, what would have been the reasoning to "fire" Jack Daugherty,
why not simply relocate him to another area of A&M Records ?
Why keep his credit on Top Of The World (as on the 1973, 45-release) ?

Is a record producer so expendable as to have (quoting above)
" nothing to do with either failure or success" of an artist ?

 

[Chris May]

In two separate instances at Grammy Awards,
both Karen and Richard step up to the podium
and their first words are:
"We would like to thank our producer Jack Daugherty...."
and,
"would not have been possible without our producer Jack Daugherty",

These words at the Grammy Awards--at that time-- speak volumes.
Either he was instrumental, or not.
If not, what would have been the reasoning to "fire" Jack Daugherty,
why not simply relocate him to another area of A&M Records ?
Why keep his credit on Top Of The World (as on the 1973, 45-release) ?

Is a record producer so expendable as to have (quoting above)
" nothing to do with either failure or success" of an artist ?

Jack was instrumental in helping them secure their record deal, which is part of the reason they agreed to list him as producer, hence their gratitude during those shows. His actual role was that of a contractor for the recording sessions. I know it all sounds conflicting and confusing, but Richard will tell you that he and Karen were the ones responsible for the actual production duties on every single one of their albums.