CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT - Special Edition NOT out of print*

[mr J.]

Universal has just deleted "Christmas Portrait".This almost seems like unbelievable news.Before anyone gets too emotional,let me explain what might be going on here.
There is a possibility that Universal is reissuing a 30th anniversary "Christmas Portrait" disc this fall,and they deleted the original Special Edition in advance.This possible 30th anniversary disc would probably be remastered-with the original 1978 mixes and original artwork.
The other(unfortunate) scenario is that the Special Edition disc simply slowed down in sales over the past ten years since "Christmas Collection" came out,and Universal just decided to delete it and keep the double-disc set in print.And,since several(I think 8 or 9,incuding the solo albums)albums have been deleted in the past 3 years,this wouldn't be a total surprise.
I hope the first scenario winds up being true(we'll know within the next 4 or 5 weeks)........

[Moderator's note: In the interest of accuracy, the thread title has been modified to indicate the later information that ther album is NOT out of print at this time.]

 

[Mark-T]

Maybe they are just going to push The Christmas Collection...

 

[aaflyer98]

Wow... I don't know what to think about that. Christmas Portrait (at least I thought) seemed to be a good seller year after year. I am glad we have Christmas Collection with both albums in their entirety.
But a special 30th anniversary edition would be fantastic! Here's hoping.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

[Moderator note: SHOUTING replaced with talking on thread title]

I'm actually surprised they've kept "Special Edition" in print this long. "True fans" would want the complete records -- although the S.E might have a place as a curiosity, I guess.

 

[Harry]

I agree that it was only kept in release because it was a perennial best-seller. but that was by default, since for years, it was all that you could get with Carpenters Christmas music on CD.

Recently, with more complete double-CD joining it in the marketplace, its sales have probably fallen off.

As for the '78 mixes - well, they couldn't find a usable source for the Japanese box sets so they used the remixes. Richard's notes indicate that the master tapes (a bad brand) had deteriorated to unusability.

I don't know if they'd use a West German CD as source material for a new anniversary release, if they indeed plan one.

Harry

 

[andywithaz]

My current copy of Christmas Portrait: The Special Edition is all scratched up somehow, so I was planning to buy another copy this Christmas. Well, there is always eBay, but I just hate when items go out of print.

Hopefully, they will come out with a 30th anniversary!

 

[goodjeans]

Maybe they will piggyback Richard's new Christmas CD with the original Christmas Portrait. I'm really not on anything...

 

[SakuraSYayoi]

My current copy of Christmas Portrait: The Special Edition is all scratched up somehow, so I was planning to buy another copy this Christmas. Well, there is always eBay, but I just hate when items go out of print.

Hopefully, they will come out with a 30th anniversary!

You can get both Christmas albums and 30th anniversary remastered original albums as SHM-CD 40th Anniversary set.


As for "Ave Maria", the reason for the remix version isn't from damaged master tape, but original misplacement?

Sakura

 

[newvillefan]

As for "Ave Maria", the reason for the remix version isn't from damaged master tape, but original misplacement?

If that's the case, how come the original version without the Choir turned up on the West German CD of Christmas Portrait? I sat on it for about 8 years before I realised just what I had!

Stephen

 

[Harry]

According to Richard, the choir part for "Ave Maria" was always supposed to be there. It was recorded for the song and when the LP was about to go to press due to the deadline, the choir tape was missing in action. It had apparently been mislabled and they were unable to find it in time.

Thus, the LP version (and cassette) of CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT want to pressing with the song unfinished from its original intention, with no choir and just Karen's vocal. So we all got used to hearing it that way and it's become, to our ears, the definitive and remembered version.

In the mid-eighties, when Richard was putting together the expanded cersion for the new Compact Disc format, he subtracted some tracks, added in some from the second album, and found the missing choir part and mixed it back in where, in his opinion, it always belonged.

The West Germans, when they went to press the Compact Disc for their country, used the old LP master to make the CD from, somehow missing the memo or directive to use the new mixes and masters that Richard had done. So that "mistaken" LP mix is what we all now seek out.

In compiling the Japanese album box set for the 35th Anniversary, Richard claimed in the liner notes that the intention would have been to issue CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT in its original mix, but that the master was stored on a brand of tape that has deteriorated over time. If that's to be believed (and I have no reason to doubt Richard), then the only digital source for "Ave Maria" without the choir would be the West German issue that used the old LP master.

Harry

 

[newvillefan]

The West Germans, when they went to press the Compact Disc for their country, used the old LP master to make the CD from, somehow missing the memo or directive to use the new mixes and masters that Richard had done. So that "mistaken" LP mix is what we all now seek out.

In compiling the Japanese album box set for the 35th Anniversary, Richard claimed in the liner notes that the intention would have been to issue CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT in its original mix, but that the master was stored on a brand of tape that has deteriorated over time. If that's to be believed (and I have no reason to doubt Richard), then the only digital source for "Ave Maria" without the choir would be the West German issue that used the old LP master.

Thanks Harry

So my other question would be, how many masters of an album can you have? More than just the original? Why didn't he go back to the whole LP master used by A&M West Germany to re-release the album for the Christmas Collection? Is there a remixed 'master' of the album as well?

 

[Harry]

Whatever West Germany used to master the LP and the errant CD was certainly a tape copy of whatever masters that A&M in California would have had around.

Yes, it's certainly possible that Richard could have used the West German CD or tapes (if they still had them around) as his master source, but I'm guessing that it wasn't up to his standards, so he substituted the remixed versions he'd done in the mid-90's.

It's also possible that even the master tape that the Germans used in the '80s had fallen to ravages of time, leaving ONLY the West German CD as the best source to use.

Harry

 

[goodjeans]

I can still remember trying to rush my sister home in time to see Carpenters "A Christmas Portrait" on TV in the 70's. Probably 'brought to you by Prell' or something. Well, both Holiday specials actually. Sort of sinister how the 'family' tried to prevent me from this special enjoyment. But I won. Every time. Now where the he*l is the NEW Richard project. Unfortunately I still care. So does Pamela P O who has a hand in writing stuff on it. And the P O isn't an abbreviation for pissed off, although some may be. Have a good day!

 

[SakuraSYayoi]

Richard is making us wait for his new album, so I couldn't help but buy Seiko's album and Spike Jones' CD several years ago. Maybe we must wait for Mindi to sing for the album....?


I wonder if there are separate track tapes. I don't think they are lost all at once like digital ones.
Richard let us listen to old open reel tape on TV several years ago.

Where did Nowhere Man vocal come from?

We couldn't watch the second Christmas Special on TV, but we were lucky to be able to watch "Ave Maria" on TV in 1983 just before Richard added the new choir part (I think new choir part was recorded at the second Christmas album session).

Sakura

 

[close2u]

The first time I met Richard, we discussed this whole West German ordeal. I don't know why, because I had no idea about it then -- I know I didn't ask. But somehow we got on that subject. He said at some point he requested the "Christmas Portrait" master from A&M and it was only then that he discovered it (as in THE master, according to him) had been loaned for the German release, which he, of course, never authorized. The masters were there and had been for years by that point. It seems like he said by the time they were tracked down, there was damage to them and they were not able to be used. I know it sounds weird that only one master existed, but I clearly recall saying "they sent the ORIGINAL to Germany???" to which he replied "YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I'm sure Richard's days of fretting over this are long long gone, it's the fans that keep holding on to what happen back then. I can't believe that there was only 1 master and that master was sent to Germany and then was damaged. I believe it but I can't believe it. How could something so precious as the legacy and all of Karen's hard work (after all this was her album Richard says) get damaged to the point of unuseable.

I guess if this never happened we never would have received Ave Maria without the choir. Still it's hard to believe that all these years went by with them trying to track the master down? I always thought Richard had such tight control over all of the music. It makes me wonder what else has happened or lost that we don't know about.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Richard still has the multi-tracks for everything (at least that's the word we've gotten). We know all those tapes have been "baked" and transferred into the digital domain because I think he's remixed at least one or two tracks from each record. At one point, the masters for the album in question were also transferred. If they wanted to release it, they wouldn't have to do the transfer again. They could just use their digital files and put it out again.

Ed

 

[close2u]

I don't think he meant the multi-tracks... That would be all the raw audio, correct? I believe it was the final 2-channel mixes as pressed in 1978.

 

[mr J.]

It appears that "Christmas Portrait" is out-of-print for good.There is no (30th anniversary) reissue scheduled for release this fall(or at least between now and mid-November).This is obviously a bad omen-in regards to K&R's album sales.

 

[Harry]

But CHRISTMAS COLLECTION, which contains both Christmas albums, continues to be available.

Harry

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I don't think he meant the multi-tracks... That would be all the raw audio, correct? I believe it was the final 2-channel mixes as pressed in 1978.

So sorry for missing this response somehow. Nice manners, huh? LOL! Yeah, the multi-tracks are the "raw audio". Still, Richard and whomever could just go replicate the mixes from way back and re-release if he chose.

Ed

 

[Harry]

For an out-of-print disc, it seems awfully available:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000002GHQ

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Reports of its demise are premature...it's showing as available on our suppliers' website too. And it's the #1 Carpenters seller at this point as well. (CHRISTMAS COLLECTION is #2.)

 

[Harry]

I've edited the thread title in the interest of accuracy and put a note in the opening post of this threrad.

Harry

 

[mr J.]

I have to admit I was mistaken about "Christmas Portrait",it is indeed still in-print! I had gotten that info from a supposedly reliable source back in August,and I checked Amazon and Barnes/Noble-"Portrait" was not listed as available on either site at that time.I also had a hunch that Universal might issue a 30th anniversary master edition,so it would've made sense that the old special edition was deleted.Well,it's good to see that Portrait is still in print,but it's definitely dissapointing that Universal didn't have the honor to commemorate this classic album with an updated issue."Christmas Portrait" is not only one of the best-selling albums in A&M history,but also one of the few A&M albums that has managed to stay in print for 30 years!And,I guess most people realize that the special edition needs a remastering badly!(incidentally,it would've been nice if Richard didn't use those horrible remixes for Christmas Portrait on "Christmas Collection"(or the cheesy album cover,either)Then,we would have Christmas Portrait in its original form,with it's original mix,and everybody would be happy!)