Clarification on cancelled tour...

[BarryT60]

Quick question on clarification of the cancelled tour year...

First, my memory may well be playing tricks on me - but I have a fairly vivid recollection that the Japanese or European tour was cancelled in 1976... I almost remember already thinking Karen looked "not great" on the inner sleeve of the Hush album - so when I heard the news of the tour being cancelled, it wasn't a total shock.
However, in subsequent interviews and articles - I hear it was the summer of 1975.
My question is.... which was it? Anyone have concrete information on this? 1975 would have been just after the number 1 Postman, and the number 4 Only Yesterday... and a pretty healthy looking Karen on the cover of Horizon.
OR - could there have been two cancelled tours?
Thx...

 

[A&M Retro]

The cancelled tours were originally scheduled in the fall of 1975, and were moved to 1976. She took a nose dive in health and weight in the summer of 1975. They were at the Riviera in Vegas in early September, and cancelled all shows after that.

 

[BarryT60]

wow.

That is amazing to comprehend.

I guess I imagined the 'nose dive' to be more synonymous timing wise- with the slow-down in sales... not a mere months after chart topping hits... Were any tours completed in '76?

 

[A&M Retro]

Yeah, they had a very busy touring year in '76 in the U.S. and elsewhere. They also made it to Europe and Japan to fulfill their '75 obligations.

 

[GaryAlan]

1976, in terms of touring, had a distinct difference from the previous years.
It appears ( and correct me if I err) that the duo spent more time touring out of American venues.
I count 24 separate dates (excepting Las Vegas) throughout the United States.
By far, in 1976, the greatest amount of time (seems to be) touring outside of America.
But, then, they were still 'hot' items, in those other countries.
1976 would appear to be a most pivotal period, in that they were able to sustain an immense
popularity worldwide, despite the sales/popularity decline here in the states.
(I went to High School 1976-1980...no one, to my knowledge, ever mentioned them in my company).
(I do not believe the 1976 People Magazine article did them any favors from a career standpoint.)
(I believe the "Us" Magazine had placed them in the "Who's Out" Column, 1976.)
And, yet, the duo did stay busy.

 

[arthowson]

I didn't know "US" was published then. Any "happening" magazine would have placed the Carpenters "out this year" section, just to sound cool.

The Carpenters' listening audience had a different idea. Love that they continue to be the most successful 1970's act.

 

[song4u]

Karen's self esteem and sense of self worth seems to have been so heavily attached to those record sales and their popularity, and it's so very sad. Had she a proper view of herself - she had wonderful qualities, per her friends and associates - perhaps things might have turned out differently.

 

[BarryT60]

I remember our top 40 radio station DJ commenting that he had 'forgotten' just how many hits came from the Carpenters - until he had seen the special the night before. It would have been grand to have had an album release that week, with some new material. The special may have given some much needed traction - precisely at the right moment.

It was a top ten television event - with nothing to promote. A marketing miss. Too bad.

 

[A&M Retro]

1976, in terms of touring, had a distinct difference from the previous years.
It appears ( and correct me if I err) that the duo spent more time touring out of American venues.
I count 24 separate dates (excepting Las Vegas) throughout the United States.
By far, in 1976, the greatest amount of time (seems to be) touring outside of America.
But, then, they were still 'hot' items, in those other countries.
1976 would appear to be a most pivotal period, in that they were able to sustain an immense
popularity worldwide, despite the sales/popularity decline here in the states.
(I went to High School 1976-1980...no one, to my knowledge, ever mentioned them in my company).
(I do not believe the 1976 People Magazine article did them any favors from a career standpoint.)
(I believe the "Us" Magazine had placed them in the "Who's Out" Column, 1976.)
And, yet, the duo did stay busy.

Yeah, 'Us' Magazine did put them in the 'Who's Out' column in late '76. I remember the quote: "The Carpenters got so mellow, everyone fell asleep". Ouch.

 

[GaryAlan]

Arthowson, you may very well be correct in questioning the title of the aforementioned magazine ("Us"), in my
previous posting.
I honestly can not remember the exact magazine title, nor can I locate it....but, I did read it ("who's out") at that time.
As with many of those items which I read throughout the 1970's, I became disgusted at the derision leveled at the duo.
No matter what the magazine title, unfortunately Carpenters' were not treated with the reverence in which they are now held.
(Reverence in certain circles, anyway). (I have a 1994 "Q" magazine with an in-depth interview...and, it manages to sneak in
some rather asinine remarks).
Regardless of career mistakes made along the way, Richard Carpenter still produced some timeless, peerless, beautiful music.
That being said:
The 1978 interview,regarding the success of Sweet Sweet Smile on the country charts, has Richard Carpenter (responding) seemingly
clueless (puzzled?) regarding the promotional efforts on the part of A&M records to the possibilities of a country-music tie-in.
("I think they hired an outside advertising agency").(Schmidt,Carpenters' Reader)
Also, hard to believe that A&M kept Richard in the dark as to the low-budget plans for 1984's Old-Fashioned Christmas.
In other words, where is this disconnect coming from? Did it always exist? Was A&M Records Marketing Department not
communicating to Richard (1984) and before that, to both Karen and Richard?
Who was responsible for the distorted Song For You Covers, after the first batch of lovely, textured first-pressings?
Such a fantastic album, then someone in the record company did that to it (the cover)! (Little wonder, Richard lost it on that one).
Also, all of the Quad LP's, it is my understanding, were mixed without his supervision. What is happening?
Many questions could be asked regarding the entirety of Carpenters' career.

 

[A&M Retro]

Good questions, Gary, and all things that should have been brought up with their management (first Sherwin Bash and later Jerry Weintraub). It seems all their management was concerned about was keeping them on the road and giving them TV specials. Other things were done cluelessly at their expense.

It was definitely 'US' Magazine that printed that comment. 'Us' was first published in the late '70s and lasted quite a while before folding. Years later, the magazine title was resurrected. That's probably why its history seems a bit odd.

 

[Must Hear This Album]

wow.

That is amazing to comprehend.

I guess I imagined the 'nose dive' to be more synonymous timing wise- with the slow-down in sales... not a mere months after chart topping hits... Were any tours completed in '76?

I, too, was surprised to learn that Karen’s initial, dramatic weight loss took place in the wake of continued career success (as I’d presumed, like BarryT60, that her illness was concurrent the slower sales in the latter part of the decade). One source (if memory serves me correctly) indicated Karen's first significant drop in weight happened after they returned from the 1974 tour of Japan, I think, just a month or so before “Postman” hit #1. The duo had every reason to presume Horizon would be a smash (which it eventually was, going platinum). And the top 5 follow-up single the following spring would seemingly have kept the duo's spirits up through that summer. All this is to say (as it’s been noted in numerous other sources) that Karen’s illness seems to have manifest before the "sales slump.”

Interesting note about the “sales slump,” by the way: yes, their sales were sliding in the later part of the 1970’s, there’s no denying it, but even through all of that, the duo was still getting played on the radio. Also noted in other sources, every single Carpenters album, in Karen’s lifetime, after Offering/Ticket To Ride (and not counting Christmas Portrait) contained at least one Top 40 hit. That’s a remarkable track record of radio play. Would that successful trend have continued had Karen lived? Most likely not for much longer, as most artists tend to have a commercial peak and then mellow into a comfortable fan-based career, but I’m guessing with the right ballad or two, subsequent early-1980’s releases might have placed the duo on pop radio at least one or two more times before "video ultimately killed the radio star.” Love songs never really go out of style, do they?

 

[song4u]

Richard has expressed that there's that all the time anxiety of trying to follow up success with more success. Trying to keep up with their successes with new material, while touring continuously. Perhaps that had a role in Karen's health as well.

 

[GaryAlan]

I am impressed with the continuing, well-informed, discourse regarding career of Carpenters.
I truly do learn something new every day. Appreciation to all.
It is my observation, and I believe Richard Carpenter may have alluded to it, that Karen's battle really started in 1974.
Which really does give cause to ponder, as the career was still full-steam ahead at that date.
The Como Christmas (late 1974) show presents a radiant, beautiful woman, in strong voice.
This (Karen's health and correlation to career pressure) still stays somewhat of a conundrum in my mind.

 

[Mark-T]

Sometimes it's odd to me to think that Karen felt she had no control. She was THE voice of Carpenters. Beloved by fans, a cash cow for the company and at any time could have said "I'm done". It could have even been the trump card to get her solo album released. I wonder why she didn't think of herself as a business woman and performer with a lot of power.

 

[newvillefan]

It is my observation, and I believe Richard Carpenter may have alluded to it, that Karen's battle really started in 1974.

I was amazed when I learned that Karen herself equated the beginning of her illness with the time she took Richard to check him into Menninger's. That's not how I ever perceived it to be. I think it's quite clear to most people that her problems stemmed right back to mid '75 when her weight plummeted and they cancelled the European and Japanese tours.

 

[song4u]

Sometimes it's odd to me to think that Karen felt she had no control. She was THE voice of Carpenters. Beloved by fans, a cash cow for the company and at any time could have said "I'm done". It could have even been the trump card to get her solo album released. I wonder why she didn't think of herself as a business woman and performer with a lot of power.

That's not the way she was taught to think of herself, and I don't think she ever shook that "I'm in second place" mentality.

 

[Don Malcolm]

I am impressed with the continuing, well-informed, discourse regarding career of Carpenters.
I truly do learn something new every day. Appreciation to all.
It is my observation, and I believe Richard Carpenter may have alluded to it, that Karen's battle really started in 1974.
Which really does give cause to ponder, as the career was still full-steam ahead at that date.
The Como Christmas (late 1974) show presents a radiant, beautiful woman, in strong voice.
This (Karen's health and correlation to career pressure) still stays somewhat of a conundrum in my mind.

Because Karen was always "behind the veil," it will be extremely difficult to go much further than what's been reported by Coleman and Randy Schimdt, I fear. But based on what we can tease out of them, I would tend to agree with you that somewhere in '74 seems like the point where some collision of elements--fame, fatigue, family, and friction from the relentlessly negative media--turned something inward, and crossed over a line where she found a way to counteract the forces that were trapping her. But, as we all know all too well, the cost of that was tragically high--and was itself a greater, far more dangerous trap... From tracking the images, it certainly appears that the third wave of her denial, after the twin blows of the shelved solo album and the ill-fated marriage, was the culmination of a cumulative effect on her health. It's sad to contemplate the notion that had she been less famous (and thus less beset by the pressures of success), she might have been more reachable at an earlier point with respect to the syndrome to which she'd fallen victim.

 

[A&M Retro]

Don: I believe you just summed things up perfectly. Something happened in late '74 that triggered the downward spiral. And that spiral had begun before 'Postman' hit #1. If you compare Karen at the Boston Pops show (taped June, 1974) to Perry Como (taped November, 1974), the difference is drastic. And that was just the beginning of the dark period of her life. If only somebody could have reached out to her in those early days to get to the root of the problem sooner. But it was 1974, and few had a clue what was happening.

 

[GaryAlan]

And, I had not realized that Peter Knight was brought in for the Boston Pops Show.
This, a footnote, in the Coleman Book.
1974, definitely a turning point.
Perceptive views from everyone, here!Thanks.

 

[newvillefan]

If you compare Karen at the Boston Pops show (taped June, 1974) to Perry Como (taped November, 1974), the difference is drastic.

I hadn't realised the two were so close together, only 5 months apart. When you put it like that, wow! The difference in her appearance is amazing.

 

[Harry]

If one looks at a still from that Boston Pops performance (this one's a random shot from "Close To You" as found on YouTube):



...one can envision Karen and Richard sitting down the day that PBS broadcast this episode - and Karen being appalled at the way she looked. Whether it's the dress, or the fact that TV adds poundage, or the unflattering camera angle looking up - she does, if I may be so indelicate, loom large in this show.

So I think it's safe to add this television appearance to the list of things that may have said to Karen that she needed to do something about her weight.

Harry

 

[BarryT60]

1974, says Richard on numerous occasions, was the year that SHOULD have had them home recording, to follow-up their highest yielding year in record sales. Instead the touring schedule took over...

Great song - but I also recall how weirded out I was when I Won't Last A Day Without You was released as a single. I couldn't believe another remnant from ASFU was coming out - two albums later.

I just looked up the Pops and the Como footage on Youtube... interesting insights on Karen's weight where I simply never connected the dots...
I remember though - thinking at the time that Karen looked great in the Como show. I liked what she looked like - & liked how she sounded. I never thought she looked better than the Horizon photo shoots... which were clearly around the same time - given her hair length...
I don't know. We'll never know. Maybe people complimented her so much during that year - that it clicked and triggered that more loss was better....

Incidentally, I saw some footage from that new program on the BBC and my heart sank all over again. I have said this before... in some far away corner of my brain - I can relate a little with compulsive behavior - and actually "get" how wanting to lose another pound or two could "secure" a good lean look.... then - one or two more, to be sure... then the snowball continues. That coupled with all the aforementioned struggles - - then throw in some depression and the recipe - obviously, was disastrous.

Such a damned shame.

 

[BarryT60]

If one looks at a still from that Boston Pops performance (this one's a random shot from "Close To You" as found on YouTube):



...one can envision Karen and Richard sitting down the day that PBS broadcast this episode - and Karen being appalled at the way she looked. Whether it's the dress, or the fact that TV adds poundage, or the unflattering camera angle looking up - she does, if I may be so indelicate, loom large in this show.

So I think it's safe to add this television appearance to the list of things that may have said to Karen that she needed to do something about her weight.

Harry

I thought that wrinkly satin jumpsuit on the Hope special was an unfortunate wardrobe choice. I pray something so fleeting as one television broadcast didn't effect her mental fragility to such a horrific extent... but again.... we'll never know....

 

[BarryT60]

just another postscript from 1974.... The Live in Budokan concert shows someone as radiant and as glowing as she could possibly be... Particularly when she is playing drums - or singing with the kids on 'Sing'....