Do You Think the folks at UNI....

[Steven J. Gross]

...are asking themselves how Polygram could buy A&M Records and leave all the TjB albums with Herb and Jerry? It was a HUGE part of the company. What idiots! Another brilliant move by Mr. A & Mr. M. At the time it probably seemed like a minor part of a big deal regarding an "uninteresting" act with no power to resurface. Ha ha :goofygrin:

 

[jimac51]

With many of the steps taken from changing distribution to Polygram to eventual sale of Rondor Music a bit blurry in my mind,the short answer would be "No". Remember that it was Polygram that bought the label and it was legal action taken by Herb & Jerry after Universal swallowed Polygram that the masters came out of Universal. The big fish that Universal wanted was the Rondor rights(possibly the real diamond in all of these transactions)and playing nice to Herb & Jerry was in order. The real idiots in these deals seems to have been Polygram buying the label for such over valued prices and then being left with Sting,Sheryl Crow and a bit dated catalog(they would not hold onto Janet Jackson,who eventually went to another overpriced label,Virgin). For all of my hard feelings against Universal,they ain't really that stupid. And the next step for the TJB catalog,while of great interest to many here,will not bring the kind of dollars that say,Abba or Elton John bring to Universal on a daily basis. Mac

 

[Rudy]

Godd points, Mac. One thing that clinched the deal was Janet Jackson...and at the time, it was considered a major blunder that Polygram's A&M did not do enough to hold onto her.

No, Universal is not stupid, or idiots: they're just a very large corporation that can't justify making any moves unless it means big money to them. They can't afford to do otherwise--the corporation is just too large to support what they consider marginal product. Hate to say it, but if you look at the entire TJB catalog, you'd probably find only a handful of the albums would be good "catalog" sellers: probably Whipped Cream, Lonely Bull, maybe Going Places, and a hits compilation or two. Classic example of why the forthcoming TJB releases would be released by a smaller specialist label that can afford to manufacture and market them.

 

[Ed Bishop]

I have to concur. Herb's stuff sold phenomenally for its time, but now? For a huge company like Universal, you're talking catalog filler(what's the most we could have gotten: a MILLENNIUM COLLECTION volume?).

Unfortunately, Herb's ownership causes problems of its own. Since he controls it, that also means, like Dave Clark, he can withhold it if he chooses. So far, we've no reason to believe he will(how what will come will sound, that's another matter, let's pray for the best!).

I suppose you could liken letting go of Herb's stuff to, say, if EMI decided to give the Jackie Gleason estate the right back to his Capitol albums. Yeah, they sold great in their day, and some of the '50s megasellers were in print throughout the '60s, but today, who cares? Niche market stuff, more likely farmed out to a smaller indie to deal with.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I agree with most here. Universal undoubtedly couldn't care less about Herb Alpert's output. These are albums that wouldn't sell much beyond those here who have expressed interest.

I think the real shame, though, is that once we see these albums rereleased, they won't sport the old A&M logo. Unless Herb can obtain the rights to it (which is doubtful), he'll have to get creative in the repackaging of his albums since he displayed his company's logo loudly and proudly on the majority of his albums.

Ed

 

[Steven J. Gross]

I don't agree that this (Herb's) part of the catalog was unimportant at all- it was the heart of A&M. Polygram should not have given that up in the deal. The TjB is gonna be back.

 

[Ed Bishop]

I don't agree that this (Herb's) part of the catalog was unimportant at all- it was the heart of A&M. Polygram should not have given that up in the deal. The TjB is gonna be back.

I think the concensus is that the huge multinational conglomerate monolith obviously felt, in dealing with Herb, that they could give up the TJB/solo Herb stuff without any financial strain. Since they consider the A&M catalog just one small part of the whole, what do they care about historical context and the legacy of one little L.A. label that grew into so big an entity? Not much, apparently, and so....here we are.

I agree that any reissues will probably NOT sport the A&M logo...although, this is by no means conclusive. Labels, including Sony, have allowed usage of their older logos in the past on certain outside reissues, so one cannot wholly rule that out.

But my concern is about sound quality, less than packaging. I can live without the logo if the sonics are there, and we get what we want. If the packaging is accurate but the sound sucks, we're far worse off!

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Herb and Jerry could establish "M&A Records" and start it with monthly TjB re-releases. History repeats sometimes.....

 

[Rudy]

I agree with most here. Universal undoubtedly couldn't care less about Herb Alpert's output. These are albums that wouldn't sell much beyond those here who have expressed interest.

Exactly. If Universal felt they could make money from the reissues, they would have done it before they lost the masters. Ditto Polygram--the CDs were released before the sale to Polygram, and you'll note that neither Polygram or Universal saw the sales potential there. Plus, if there were potential, you'd think Universal would have tried harder to at least be in the running for licensing them for releases under the A&M logo. It's the same with many non-pop and non-rock releases: legacy albums just don't sell when reissued, outside of a few popular titles that had runs in the higher reaches of the chart when first released.

Example: Henry Mancini had more than 80 albums under his baton, and do you know how many were actually released around the same time as the TJB CDs? Yeah, big deal...about a half dozen, all of them his bigger selling titles, which already multiply like jackrabbits in used LP bins. Do you think anyone out there, outside of avid fans and collectors, even knows or cares about the soundtracks to "Visions Of Eight" or "Arabesque"? Hardly. At least BMG/Spain saw fit to reissue many Mancini albums on CD, but as with Brasil '66/'77 on A&M, it took an import company to do it.

Keep in mind, too, that long ago, I believe Herb Alpert put a stipulation on his releases (back at the original A&M) that they not be sold as two-fers or as midline or budget releases.

It's not that the companies don't care--it's more about them realizing it would cost them more to engineer, manufacture, market and distribute the titles than what they would recoup through sales. The big companies are all about the bottom line. And the bigger they are, the more it costs them to release product.

As for the A&M logo on TJB reissues, I doubt it would be used. Doesn't matter to me. But in the past, original logos have been used. A reissue label like Mobile Fidelity usually had the original company's logo on their packaging, but the recording was licensed from the original label. In this case, the original label (nor its parent company) does not own the masters. I won't rule it out, but unless they are trying to be very authentic, it probably isn't worth the legal and/or financial bother to license the logo for use on the discs.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Would there have been a way for Herb and Jerry to take the logo with them when they left A&M? I remember when Sony bought CBS, all the logos for the various labels (Columbia, Epic, etc.) changed to Sony's own concoctions - at least initially. Columbia's has changed back to an earlier design. Epic's is still that odd-looking "E" instead of the electric-cursive word they used to use.

Ed

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

For my part, I would love to see the old logo as it was such an important part of the early packaging for Herb's records. Yes, I know, I know. I really must go get that life I've heard so much about...

Ed

 

[Steven J. Gross]

I really must go get that life I've heard so much about...
Ed

Nothing wrong with having passion about something you like. Maybe the points in our threads will be heard!

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think there should be a sticker sheet available with the A&M CORNER logo on it. There could be large stickers, all the way down to 1/4" ones for use on CDs. Then you could just pick the appropriate size and stick it in the appropriate spot on the logo-less CD booklet.

But seriously folks....maybe they could strike some kind of deal where they could use the logo, with a very slight variation such as having the word "classic" appear above or under the beloved logo. Although I hope if it gets down to the point where everything BUT the logo is finalized, that they go ahead without the logo. It's not that big of a deal...most of us will still have our original album covers anyway.

 

[Rudy]

Would there have been a way for Herb and Jerry to take the logo with them when they left A&M? I remember when Sony bought CBS, all the logos for the various labels (Columbia, Epic, etc.) changed to Sony's own concoctions - at least initially. Columbia's has changed back to an earlier design. Epic's is still that odd-looking "E" instead of the electric-cursive word they used to use.

That's a tough call. Essentially, A&M's original logo (which I "parody" here) is no longer in use, but the modern version of it is still recognizably like the old one. Since A&M is UMG's property now, there's no telling which way this could go.

 

[Rudy]

But seriously folks....maybe they could strike some kind of deal where they could use the logo, with a very slight variation such as having the word "classic" appear above or under the beloved logo. Although I hope if it gets down to the point where everything BUT the logo is finalized, that they go ahead without the logo. It's not that big of a deal...most of us will still have our original album covers anyway.

A couple of ways to do it:

1) They could use an ochre label, with typesetting very similar to the original labels...but find a different logo to use, maybe even mimicking the original white/black/red theme somehow.

2) They could just use part of the album cover graphics as a CD label, or design it to resemble the album jacket's appearance with identical typefaces and a couple of key graphic elements...sort of the way Steely Dan's most recent remasters look like. ("Royal Scam" has a greenish-gray solid color to it, with the 3D "Royal Scam" album title on it.)

#2 seems more likely, and we wouldn't miss the A&M logo quite as much. But hey, you can't see the CD label when it's spinning in the CD player anyway!

 

[LPJim]

Here's an idea: If they can't use the logo they can use the little strips at the top of the LPs that said "Stereo" ....... "A&M SP 4110"

That gets them around the legalities, perhaps.
JB

 

[Rudy]

Good idea--can't copyright something that says [->STEREO<-] .

 

[Mr Bill]

Good idea--can't copyright something that says [->STEREO<-] .

I can think of ONE person who would disagree with you there! LOL.

But you mentioned that the A&M logo is not used anymore. That's not entirely true. It graces Vanessa Carlton, "Shrill" Crow and Sting releases as well as the 20th Century Master releases that are A&M related. In fact i just saw a new 20CM for Gato Barbieri which features both the A&M and Verve logos.

Believe it or not the absorbed labels still have individual A&R departments (though for A&M it's the three ;labels comprising IGA) and some separate staffers. Sharing goes across all Uni labels, though, hence the potential success of Hip-O and Hip-O Select and the recategorization of any Uni-label's jazz releases to the Verve imprint...

--Mr Bill

 

[Mike]

Undoubtedly, as talented as Herb Alpert is, he’ll come up with something perfect. Since he’s an abstract artist, maybe a Picasso’est logo. Or maybe something like the old Playboy magazine covers where you had to look awhile to find the bunny logo; like a “Where’s Waldo” with an A&M logo.

Anyway, who cares – just give me the music and I’ll be satisfied.

 

[jimac51]

Then again,the logo for "Almo Sounds" was...a bit obvious. Can't fault the minds behind that though,since the artwork for CDs(and for a while,cassettes)shrunk everything so that the name on the spine was at least as legible as anything else. Artwork for logos can be blocked by the omnipresent "sticker" on CDs advertising the glories awaiting the buyer. Mac

 

[Rudy]

But you mentioned that the A&M logo is not used anymore. That's not entirely true.

I was actually referring to the original logo (with original colors and typeface), like the one used here at the Corner. Thing is, the current logo is still very much like the original, just modernized and stylized differently...and being so close in appearance, I would not see UMG allowing anyone to license their logo for a product they have no control over, or interest in.

 

[Mr Bill]

True enough. Uni has reverted to the late 70s/early 80s logo, which was a small version of the classic with a thick border. I'm glad they abandoned the more modern "square" logo -- I never cared for that one.

--Mr Bill

 

[Steven J. Gross]

True enough. Uni has reverted to the late 70s/early 80s logo, which was a small version of the classic with a thick border. I'm glad they abandoned the more modern "square" logo -- I never cared for that one.

--Mr Bill

I could not agree more.

 

[Dave]

I thought the "UNi" logo was pretty cool and bears a striking resembelence to the "CTi" logo! Neil Diamond and Andy Kim are all I can think of who were on the label. Though I had one obscure singer who made a UNi album, before moving on to 20th Century to make three albums, Patti Dahlstrom. And Brian Hyland made a UNi album, as well.

Dave

...who thinks EVERYONE should own at least ONE UNi album by this Old Record Company, online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Dave, The logo might be nice but I found the actual quality of product very poor back then- el cheapo. The opposite of the superior quality A&M or Columbia products of the era.