First impressions of the new CDs

[JMK]

Having made it through Love Music and Vintage '74, I have a few preliminary reactions. Love Music contains a fair amount of hiss which for some reason is not so apparent on Vintage. The other strange thing is that a couple of songs on Love Music almost sound like different mixes--notably Put a Little Love Away and I Won't Last a Day Without You--both songs' brass sections seem MUCH softer and more buried in the mix than on my LPs, or even on the CDRs certain other Corner-ites may or may not have provided to me. Still and all it's fun to be able to listen to these again in fairly noise-free reproductions.

 

[walterphil]

yes, but it also sounds like
a good argument to keep your vinyl!!!

buy a new turntable
and look for vintage vinyl---

in addition to brasilian music
i also collect many many oldies
and i can't tell you how many times
new mixes of old songs suck.

yes cds are very convenient
comparatively indestructable
and 60% of the time
sound better than vinyl

but thank goodness i kept my original
martha and the vandellas, cyrcle,
and even some beatles vinyl!

walt

 

[stefandaystrom]

[...]
i also collect many many oldies
and i can't tell you how many times
new mixes of old songs suck.

[....]
thank goodness i kept my original
martha and the vandellas, cyrcle,
and even some beatles vinyl!

Well, while I agree with your general sentiment about new mixes generally sucking, I don't see how this is a CD-specific problem. And, in fact, I wonder how "original" your "original" (pre-Pepper) Beatles vinyl is. It's on Parlaphone, right? (Or Vee Jay perhaps...)

Capitol vinyl of Beatles featured remixes already (by the dreaded Dave Dexter Jr), prior to Sgt Pepper. So in the case of Beatles CDs, I don't consider it valid to claim that "I Feel Fine" on US vinyl (Capitol) is an original and the version on CD is the remix, the CD is much closer to the original Parlophone vinyl.

And to bring this back to A&M Corner artists (tho dunno if to Sergio Mendes), the "original" TJB LPs didn't always feature the orignal single version of songs that came out as singles before they came out on LP (which many songs did back in the 60s). In that case, tho, the CDs (when they even exist) do no better, as all TJB tracks on CD that I know of have been of the stereo LP mixes, except perhaps the DEFINITIVE HITS remix of "Lonely Bull" back to mono.

 

[walterphil]

no i didnt necessarily mean
it was a cd problem
i like cds even tho i'm a vinyl junkie
i meants it only as a remix problem

if the cd sounds as good or better than the record i am very happy

i have complete sets of most beatles lps
on parlaphone, capital & japanese reissues.

my faves of course are the english parlaphones and the japs reissues

but...

(and i'm gonna get such flack for this)

i actually like the echo laden capital trax also.

i think "i feel fine" is more exciting with all that echo!
it sounds naked without it

and a bland little song like "you cant do that"
sounds so much more exciting with its "american" echo
than the rather dull in comparison british version.

ditto for "she's a woman" and a few others.

so shoot me y'all!
it's the way i remember them at 12 years old!

but i am glad to have ALL the versions.

(and i just love the mono sgt. pepper)
looking for a mono magical mystery tour-so expensive!

interesting you mentioning the tjb singles vs. album cuts

i remember as a kid being pissed the punchier single versions
of the mamas and the papas hits
weren't on the lps.
(esp my faves "i saw her again" &
"words of love."

xxx
walt

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Mine showed up today. Upon taking them out of the box, it was hard to believe I was actually staring at real CDs of these two albums, which I've hoped for CD releases of for years!

Like I've said elsewhere, these aren't my favorite Mendes albums but they each have great songs sprinked in.

Similar feelings to last year, when we finally saw all the A&M B'66 albums on CD.

Slowly my wish list is being filled in. Now, where's HERB ALPERT???

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Was the single "Love Music" a minor hit?

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Was the single "Love Music" a minor hit?

It was, though I don't know what it charted. I'll bet Harry or Jeff Kauffman can tell us that one? "Walk The Way You Talk" also received quite a bit of airplay as well. I remember hearing the album "Love Music" for the first time and recognizing "Walk The Way You Talk" right away.

Jon

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Mine showed up today. Upon taking them out of the box, it was hard to believe I was actually staring at real CDs of these two albums, which I've hoped for CD releases of for years!

Like I've said elsewhere, these aren't my favorite Mendes albums but they each have great songs sprinked in.

Similar feelings to last year, when we finally saw all the A&M B'66 albums on CD.

Slowly my wish list is being filled in. Now, where's HERB ALPERT???

I feel exactly the same about the appearance of these albums on CD. It's with amazement and awe that I hold them before me. And, like you, I feel much as I did when the A&M catalog was released.

As for Herb, we can always wait and hope that we'll see something soon. Look at it this way: it's always something to look forward to, yes?

Jon

 

[jimac51]

Walt-You are not alone in your appreciation of the American Beatle mixes. Maybe our friend and Goldmine Book Editor Tim Neely will read this and chime in-it is so much fun to hear him talk about the US Beatle catlog. You would think they would at least make both the US and British versions available and let the buyer decide-and in many cases,the buyer would want both. Oh,and my MMT was always in mono,a purchase from a friend ,but between my friend and myself,we beat that LP to hell. Mac

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Now that I've listened to both of these new CDs a few times....

I agree with the "hiss" assessment made above. Love Music definitely has more hiss to it than Vintage 74, but if you look at the recording info, you'll find that Love Music was recorded on 16-track equipment, while Vintage was done on 24-track (probably newer) equipment, which may have made a difference.

I've always considered Vintage 74 to be the better of these two albums because it has some real Brasilian material in it, but after listening to them back to back, I'd have to say that Love Music holds up better as an album. (It is a concept album, after all.) Vintage 74 is more uneven, but the "high points" and "low points" on it are much higher and lower than the ones on Love Music.

 

[JMK]

Actually, Mike, I had reached pretty much the opposite conclusion--for me Vintage '74 is as close as Sergio came to recapturing the classic A&M sound at either Bell or Elektra, even though there's at least one really poor choice of tunes (most seem to think it's Superstition, which I actually love, but for me it's Waiting for Love, which is just lame as far as I'm concerned).

While I really like a lot of Love Music (Alcivar's vocal arrangements, for instance, really expanded Sergio's two singer concept--listen to how Alcivar manages to make some really dissonant intervals sound MOR on the opening of Where is the Love? for example), listening to it a lot again over the past week or so has reminded me of something I thought then and am thinking again now--aside from the obvious fact that Sergio totally abandoned any Brasilian songs and was just as obviously hungry for Top 40 airplay, the arrangements are really lacking in spark--Tom Scott's contributions seem lobotomized, especially when you compare them to Pais Tropical or especially his work at around the same on one of the classic albums of the 70s, Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark. The orchestrations on Won't Last a Day Without You and Walk the Way You Talk just drive me up a wall--his voicing choices are really poor, IMHO, and I'm a huge Tom Scott fan. He comes close on Love Music (the song), but even there there just isn't the excitement there was with the best Grusin arrangements (oh, boy, here come the brickbats! ). I don't think it's a coincidence that Grusin returned to orchestrate Vintage '74--I think Sergio knew he needed Grusin's elegance and flourish with the orchestra. It doesn't even sound like Sergio's piano to me (could have been Alcivar, easily--he's quite accomplished) on at least Walk the Way You Talk.

 

[walterphil]

thanks jimac
i'm glad i'm not alone in my assessment of the american beatles mixes.

i want to make it clear that i do appreciate having all the versions, depending on my mood.

you hit on such a good idea tho-why doesn't american capital release the american versions of the beatles albums? how many grown up fans would love to have a copy of "meet the beatles" rather than the somewhat stodgier "with the beatles." or the "beatles second album." or "something new." very interesting.

and JMC, i couldnt agree with you more on your assessment of "love music." and i'm the biggest brasil 66 fan ever. still waiting to hear "vintage 74."

on a happier sergio note, at the flea market today, i found a minty "equinox" in stereo for $6 (my original copy was mono), a "crystal illusions" for $5 (my original cover was beat), and a copy of "my favorite things", for 18 (a bit pricey, but well worth it considering its comparative rareness and minty condition)


xxx
walt

 

[Steven J. Gross]

The two albums seem to be Sergio's "bubblegum" years.

 

[jimac51]

Any Beatle product is controlled by Sir Paul. If he green lights a project,it happens. Its that simple. Mac

 

[Harry]

i'm glad i'm not alone in my assessment of the american beatles mixes.

i want to make it clear that i do appreciate having all the versions, depending on my mood.

you hit on such a good idea tho-why doesn't american capital release the american versions of the beatles albums? how many grown up fans would love to have a copy of "meet the beatles" rather than the somewhat stodgier "with the beatles." or the "beatles second album." or "something new." very interesting.

Not too long ago I transferred my really clean copy of THE BEATLES SECOND ALBUM to CD-R. I too have a fondness for the American mixes, even though I appreciate the 'correctness' of the British tracks. I came late to the Beatles 'party', not really digging into the Fab Four's albums until sometime in the early '80s when RARITIES struck me as interesting in the record bins. At that point, I began to read some books on the subject of the Beatles' recordings and immersed myself into acquiring the vinyl available at the time. As a result, I've got all of the albums in their American form in rather clean vinyl, along with a few imports of the early stuff from the UK perspective.

Before the advent of the CDs, I rearranged all of the tracks into the British release order onto cassette tapes, and was able to hear the progression of the group as they worked their way through the sixties.

My understanding of the reason for Capitol not releasing the American album goes back to the original licensing of the recordings for the CD format. The surviving Beatles plus George Martin stipulated that the entire world would get the same releases, and that all regions would hear the albums the way they were originally intended. I know it's a topic of great conversation as to whether they really accomplished that goal, given the mono-only treatment of the first four albums, and some rather strange mix choices along the way, but at least the tracks appear in the correct order in their eyes.

Harry
...toying with doing a few other American Beatles CD-R's as well, online...

 

[Harry]

Meanwhile, back to our topic: the Sergio Mendes Bell-era re-issues.

Mine arrived yesterday. After a once-through on both albums, I've done a quick comparison with the LP to check on the quality. The CDs are of course clean as far as noise from clicks, pops and surface noise that you get with LPs, but a disappointment was found in the distortion area. These two recordings have always sounded just a bit distorted to me. That is, when peaks are reached, it's as if the original engineers were running too hot for the tape medium they were recording on. It's either there or in the mixdown master that was ultimately used for these. Well, it's still there. I can hear it on the louder passages of both albums. It's not like it's not always been there, but I attributed it to some kind of groove distortion in the LP, but it was apparently in the master.

The only other source I could compare them to is a couple of tracks on the GRANDES NOMES box set. Those sounded cleaner to me, indicating that somehow, the best source material was NOT used on these two Bell re-issues.

A few have mentioned hiss on LOVE MUSIC. I don't hear any more or less than I always have, so I don't think it's all that bad.

The other strange thing is that a couple of songs on Love Music almost sound like different mixes--notably Put a Little Love Away and I Won't Last a Day Without You--both songs' brass sections seem MUCH softer and more buried in the mix than on my LPs

I checked carefully for this and don't hear any appreciable difference. "Put A Little Love Away" on my LP/CD-R sounds a bit heavier in the left channel, almost like the balance was off a bit, but the brass section from the right channel sounds about the same to me. I don't hear any difference in "I Won't Last A Day Without You" except for the clearer "S" sounds on the CD.

All in all, I'm happy to have these on official CDs, but wish that the sound quality was a bit better. The A&M releases have been far superior, in more ways than one.

Harry
NP: Love Music, Sergio Mendes & Brasil '77

 

[Mike Blakesley]

My own "nitpick" is with the inside cover on Vintage '74. I mean it's nice they reproduced the inside gatefold, but couldn't they have either made the type a little bigger OR enlarged the picture and relegated the credits to another booklet page? For a credit-reader like myself, that dark-on-dark type was hard enough to read on the original LP, let alone in this microscopic format.

 

[Lord Lurking]

Meanwhile, back to our topic: the Sergio Mendes Bell-era re-issues.

Mine arrived yesterday. After a once-through on both albums, I've done a quick comparison with the LP to check on the quality. The CDs are of course clean as far as noise from clicks, pops and surface noise that you get with LPs, but a disappointment was found in the distortion area. These two recordings have always sounded just a bit distorted to me. That is, when peaks are reached, it's as if the original engineers were running too hot for the tape medium they were recording on. It's either there or in the mixdown master that was ultimately used for these. Well, it's still there. I can hear it on the louder passages of both albums. It's not like it's not always been there, but I attributed it to some kind of groove distortion in the LP, but it was apparently in the master.

The only other source I could compare them to is a couple of tracks on the GRANDES NOMES box set. Those sounded cleaner to me, indicating that somehow, the best source material was NOT used on these two Bell re-issues.

A few have mentioned hiss on LOVE MUSIC. I don't hear any more or less than I always have, so I don't think it's all that bad.

So cutting to the chase, are you glad that you purchased thre CD's?
I have the vinyl versions and have dearly wished for CD's for many years, particularly "Love Music". I cannot, as yet, find them on any UK sites and the cost importing an import is excessive, unless they are so good as to make it them an essential purchase. Is it so, or just something that it is nice to,have? Whatever you say I'll probbaly still want them...so talk me out of it..quick..

Terry,
London

 

[Harry]

So cutting to the chase, are you glad that you purchased thre CD's?

Yes. I'm always happy to have official CDs. They are better than my CD-Rs.

I have the vinyl versions and have dearly wished for CD's for many years, particularly "Love Music".

Then go for it. A solution for you might be to go directly to a Japanese online source like http://www.hmv.co.jp or http://www.cdjapan.co.jp

These two have given me reliable imports from Japan at reasonable prices. Shipping charges do add to the cost, but for me, in the States, works out to about the same price ad getting them from a US supplier like Dusty Groove or amazon.com.

You'll be happy once they arrive and you place that official disc in the CD player.

Harry
NP: early morning silence

 

[Lord Lurking]

That's great thanks for the links. I will give it a try

Terry

Harry wrote; Then go for it. A solution for you might be to go directly to a Japanese online source like http://www.hmv.co.jp or http://www.cdjapan.co.jp

These two have given me reliable imports from Japan at reasonable prices. Shipping charges do add to the cost, but for me, in the States, works out to about the same price ad getting them from a US supplier like Dusty Groove or amazon.com.

You'll be happy once they arrive and you place that official disc in the CD player.

Harry
NP: early morning silence