For What It's Worth

[Trevor]

I know... Another topic about "For What It's Worth", but I actually noticed something!

In the last verse, it's sung as 1 vocal, 2 vocals, 3... etc.

Paranoia strikes deep (solo - 1 vocal)
Into your life it will creep (2 vocals)
It starts when you're always afraid (3 vocals)
You step outta line, the man comes and he'll take you away (4 vocals)
Stop Children... (5 vocals)

It's like a little vocal build up! (the 45 is completely different, of course)

 

[Trevor]

Am I reading way too much into the music?

You know if you play the song backwards, you can hear Gracinha speaking in tongues... (OK, you can't, but I am bummed that no one has responded to my posting)

 

[Captaindave]

Well, I'll respond by saying that I'm not much for groups like Sergio Mendes covering songs like this one.

OK...I know...let them do their thing with their sound and interpretations - etc and so forth.

But I'm going to go out on the proverbial limb here and say that IMHO, some songs and some artists don't copy or cover well.

Sometimes, it's OK. Other times, I think it doesn't come off well. IMHO, more often than not, covers usually turn me off. I'll take the original, and let others create their own originals as well.

This song was a song originally done by the Buffalo Springfield during the height of the political and social unrest in the later part of the 1960s. The song had an unusual sound and message that again, IMHO, doesn't fit Sergio Mendes. Like wearing a tuxedo from the waist up and athletic wear from the waist down.

It's kind of like Herb Alpert trying to cover Jim Morrison vocally. There isn't enough common ground to make a convincing cover attempt.

I like Sergio Mendes/Brasil 66 from the sixties - when they do what they do best. And, they did a lot of things very well. I would make this same comment about many other cover attempts also, so its not to dismiss them on their covers in particular. I do not think they are anywhere near their best covering the likes of the Buffalo Springfield - nor the Beatles.

 

[JMAR5]

I think other artists sang and covered Beatles songs better than the Beatles. I have to disagree on that one.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I have always been of the belief that the version of a song you hear first, is usually the one that becomes your personal favorite. I heard Sergio's version of "Fool on the Hill" long before I heard the Beatles version...and the Beatles just sounds "wrong" to me.

Same with Carpenters version of 'Ticket to Ride." The Beatles do it uptempo, and it just doesn't seem to fit the song at all.

As for "For What It's Worth," I agree lyrically it doesn't fit the Mendes style, but the overall performance on the track transcends this (especially the percussion). I like both the Mendes and the Buffalo Springfield versions almost equally well. The song has a menacing vibe to it that comes off great in both versions.

I totally agree that not all Mendes covers were great. Anytime he did Stevie Wonder for example.....nobody should do Stevie Wonder except Stevie.

 

[Chris Martin]

Streisand's Goodnight and With a Little help from my Friends, Siouxsie and the Banshees' Dear Prudence and Brasil '66's Daytripper and Fool will always be the definitive versions to me, as they're the versions I've chosen to listen to most and to love most.

 

[Dave]

I like Lena Horne & Gabor Szabo's version of "Fool On The Hill" best-of-all!

In fact, who better to cover The Beatles, Instrumentally (and on a few ocassions, Vocally) than Gabor!



Dave

 

[Trevor]

Think if Peter, Paul and Mary didn't remake John Denver's "Leaving on a Jet Plane".

What about all the Burt Bacharach remakes!!!?

Also, does anyone remember the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band" movie starring the Bee Gees and Peter Frampton??? Talking about an interesting take on Beatles music! Here's the imdb link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078239/

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Yeesh! That movie is better forgotten.

 

[Rudy]

A couple of those Beatles covers from the Sgt. Pepper soundtrack were good. Earth Wind & Fire's, in fact, is the definitive version for me. Otherwise, that movie is, to put it nicely, a steaming turd. IMHO, anyway.

 

[Captaindave]

I have always tended to think - it is strictly my personal opinion - that if the composer and the performer were the same person - as in the Beatles case with much of their music - that is where the best outcome will be.

I guess I think that the composer probably has the best idea of the intended musical and sonic outcome of the composition. I would have to think that when Lennon or McCartney wrote their songs - as composers, they would have best been able to bridge the composer/performer "gap" by performing their own compositions.

 

[Harry]

I'd say there are exceptions to that. There are many covers that improve upon a song's original arrangement/performance. A few examples:

Carpenters - "Close To You" - even Burt Bacharach admits that Richard Carpenter nailed that arrangement

Herb Alpert - "What Now My Love" - originally an overly-dramatic ballad, Herb's version smokes the original

Beatles - "Twist And Shout" - No-one can deny that The Beatles (with John's lead vocal) own this song, in spite of the earlier original by the Isleys.

Of course this is all subjective, and in many cases, the original version is the best.

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'd say there are exceptions to that. There are many covers that improve upon a song's original arrangement/performance.

I think the TJB version of "Walk, Don't Run" spins circles around the Ventures version.

A good example of a composer finding the perfect voice etc. for his songs would be Burt Bacharach finding Dionne Warwick. Since he would produce and arrange the records, he could make the music sound exactly as he wanted. But even that doesn't always work... her version of "This Girl's In Love With You" wasn't what he was looking for... leading to the Herb version.

I think this is borne out by the fact that a lot of the Burt Bacharach solo tracks sound quite a bit like Dionne Warwick songs with different (or no) vocals.

 

[Dave]

Carpenters - "Close To You" - ...Even Burt Bacharach admits that Richard Carpenter nailed that arrangement...

Ah, but didn't Herb make a stab at it, attempting to put out that "Samba Version" in Lost Treasures under his own name? And before ever signing "any Richard, or Karen" onto his label...?

I can't help to ponder if Tommy Roe (Yeah, of "Dizzy", "Shelia", "Sweet Pea"-fame in the Sixties!) recorded it even before the Carpenters did; same arrangement, same musicians (Think even the Trumpet Solo has to be Chuck Findley, though I really don't see his name under "Musicians") and just never benefitted from ever going onto a 7" single... The album he recorded it on is We Can Make Music on ABC (ABCS 714) / 1970...



Dave



Dave

 

[Mike Blakesley]

didn't Herb make a stab at it, attempting to put out that "Samba Version" in Lost Treasures under his own name? And before ever signing "any Richard, or Karen" onto his label...?

Herb's recording of "Close to You" was done after "This Guy's In Love With You" was a hit, so it was probably done after the Carpenters' first album (and while they were searching for a hit record). Larry Levine is really the guy responsible for the Carpenters having a #1 hit with the song...if he'd not told Herb that his version was bad, the Carpenters might never have recorded it.

 

[Harry]

But even that doesn't always work... her version of "This Girl's In Love With You" wasn't what he was looking for... leading to the Herb version.

Dionne Warwick's rendition of "This Girl's In Love With You" followed Herb's hit. Hers was issued on the PROMISES, PROMISES album from early 1969, and the single was a top ten hit for her as well, reaching number 7 on the charts.

So the same song by two different reached lofty heights on the charts twice within a year's period.

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Did someone else record it before Herb? I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but I could swear that I heard on the BBC "Herb Alpert Story" that Burt sent Herb the song after someone else recorded it, and he was not happy with the results.... Or did I dream up this story?

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I think Dionne Warwick first recorded TGILWY in 1963 or so, on her first album...could be wrong, though.


Dan

 

[JMAR5]

Just think about people like Bacharach, Nyro, Sedaka, Webb and King. I would rather hear other people sing their songs. None of those songwriters could carry a tune, except for maybe Nyro a little bit.

 

[Harry]

I think Dionne Warwick first recorded TGILWY in 1963 or so, on her first album...could be wrong, though.

Wrong.

See my post above.


Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Just think about people like Bacharach, Nyro, Sedaka, Webb and King. I would rather hear other people sing their songs. None of those songwriters could carry a tune, except for maybe Nyro a little bit.

Oh, come on now. Neil Sedaka, can't carry a tune? Carole King? These people have many #1 records as solo artists, so I think they can sing a little. I agree with you about Laura Nyro - the Fifth Dimension did her songs justice. Never heard Jimmy Webb sing.

 

[Dave]

...Never heard Jimmy Webb sing...

Well, I have been enjoying his albums, all of which are now available on CD (through Collectors Choice) and I think with the exception of a song, or two, has done his own Compositions, very Top Notch!

I have to say, nobody sings Neil Sedaka's songs better than NEIL SEDAKA...

As for Carole King, I think she'd have been better off still being the Brill Building Hackmeister she's been... Although there are a few songs she does which I like, but otherwise, Other Versions by Other Artists, preferred...



Dave