Japan vs. Brasil: Fading!

[Brasil_Nut]

In listening to the remastered CDs of Sergio's collection, I've noticed a distinct difference between the way the Japanese engineers and Brasilian engineers have of fading out a song.

Homecooking and Brasil '88 (in some cases) have longer fadeouts than their Lp counterparts -- these having been remastered in Brasil.

As for the Brasil '66 material that was remastered in Japan, I notice they have a tendency to fade into a "cut-off". Another example would be openings, which sometimes appear abrupt. Take "Zanzibar" on the remastered CD for example. Instead of Sergio counting off the beginning of the song, it begins with gusto; his piano bursting onto the scene.

As an amusing sideline, I just about jumped out of my skin the first time I listened to the CD version of Pais Tropcial...when "Zanzibar" began! It surprised me.

Does anyone know if there is a reason for cutting off fade-outs? Is it a matter of the individual taste of the engineer? I mean, to me, it somewhat takes away from "Wave" to hear it fade into, "Together...together...tog..."

Jon

...who swears he isn't hearing things this time...I checked with other listeners, too!

 

[Rudy]

Early fade-outs is just sloppy mastering, plain and simple. They do it to eliminate all the tape hiss between songs, basically. A little more care and they could have faded them a bit more gently. It sounds like the beginnings of the tracks have sloppy editing as well. The very first Brasil '66 CD I bought was "Greatest Hits" around 1984 or 1985, as a German import. The beginning of "Day Tripper" is clipped off slightly, and starts with a jolt.

I guess I'm glad I didn't buy all of these Japan CDs then. Sounds like I'll have better luck finding cleaner vinyl instead.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Early fade-outs is just sloppy mastering, plain and simple. They do it to eliminate all the tape hiss between songs, basically. A little more care and they could have faded them a bit more gently.

I see...thanks Neil. I thought that might be the case. I'm surprised, though. I mean, the Japanese hold these musical treaures in high regard. I would think they would give them the best treatment possible -- which does not include abrupt beginnings and endings. Just a personal observation on my part.

And, if they have done this to reduce tape hiss between songs, they could learn something from the Brasilian engineers...Homecooking and Brasil '88 are clean, finely-faded and low on hiss between tracks. In a way, I would have expected this to be the other way around...the Japanese taking great care in fading; Brasilians being a bit more lax. I mean, when you consider the sloppy treatment given to so much of the AyM catalogue (in general), I guess I expected the same of Homecooking and Brasil '88.

Jon

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I wonder if the clipped-off ending is an illusion brought on by the remastering. It's possible that the noise-reduction techniques used, and the raising of the volume level to contemporary CD standards, made the abrupt ending stand out. It might have always been that way on the vinyl but you never turned your system up loud enough to hear it -- or there was rumble, noise etc that masked it out. This is just a thought, I haven't checked all that carefully.

 

[JMK]

Jon, which tracks specifically do you hear different fade-outs on? A cursory listen for me sounded just the same. Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong, but don't the CD remasterers work from album submasters, which would have the fadeouts "built in," so to speak?

 

[TonyCurrie]

Most clipped fade-outs result from computer-based processing. The problem lies in the waveform displayed on the monitor - when the modulation trails off, hasty operators will often clip at the point where there APPEARS to be a straight, unmodulated line, without actually listening to what they're doing. But - from experience - I know that there can be lots going on in what looks on the screen like silence.

"But Tony, surely professional record companies aren't that sloppy?"

Trust me. Listen to vinyl albums (I have hundreds) where the leader spacing between tracks has been cut in just a fraction before the reverb ends..... sloppy work exists in every business, including record production!

 

[JMK]

Tony, I completely understand fades that are clipped. It's ones that evidently go on longer than the original that have me stumped. How could that have happened? It just seems to me that Brasil and Japan would have only had LP submasters to work with, and those would have had the fades "built in" already, as I mentioned above. Am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first time! ).

 

[Dave]

In listening to the remastered CDs of Sergio's collection, I've noticed a distinct difference between the way the Japanese engineers and Brasilian engineers have of fading out a song.

I would expect the same (?) Engineers have remastered CD's by other A&M Artists.

But, I've never heard any "poor mastering" done on any of my Claudine CD's, nor my Roger Nichols. And my Evie Sands sounds just as good as it would if it were a "Standard-Issue American Product". As does my Dillard & Clark, Sandpipers, etc.

But, I do notice one song on my Renee Armand RAIN BOOK has been "poorly transferred" onto the disc. So I just turn up the volume when it comes on.

Dave

...ready to give my Japanese CD's a good, careful listen...

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Jon, which tracks specifically do you hear different fade-outs on? A cursory listen for me sounded just the same. Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong, but don't the CD remasterers work from album submasters, which would have the fadeouts "built in," so to speak?

Jeff...

Sorry so long to reply.

I'd have to give them a closer listen to give you an exact list. One example (and this isn't a fade-out -- rather an opening) is the deletion of
Sergio's "Um...dois...tres..." at the beginning of Zanzibar on Pais Tropical.

"Slow Hot Wind" from Herb Alpert Presents seems to fade out just prior to Lani's final, drawn out "...hot wind..." at the end of the song -- something I had come to associate with the closing of the song from Lp, reel-to-reel and 8-track formats. The "...hot wind..." can be heard, but cuts off. The other formats fade on the word "...wind..."

I'm sure there are other examples, but none come to mind at this time.

Jon

 

[JMK]

Hey, Jon--the clipped fadeouts I completely understand. I've heard those, too. It was the fadeouts that are evidently longer that you mentioned in your first post that have me stumped, but I'd really like to listen if you can pinpoint those for me. You know me--even a few extra seconds of unheard Sergio piques my interest!

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Hey Jeff...

I should clarify what I meant by "longer fade-outs" on the Brasilian CDs. The Brasilian remasters remain true to the original fade-outs -- just like their Lp, reel-to-reel and 8-track counterparts. The Japanese remasters have a tendency to cut off mid-fade. As far as I can tell, there is no additional fading time on Homecooking or Brasil '88 -- at least not to my knowledge.

Jon